Regarding ECF Safety Specification For Metal Tube Mods

[slr817]

I bought a metal tube mod with the extension from a well known ecig seller..no warnings..now ecf says this..so is the seller going to give me my money back or replace it..I doubt it, I'm scared witless to use it but don't have funds to buy anything else.

 

[Rocketman]

slr,
if the extension tube gives you the option of using a single 18650 cell or a pair of stacked cells, the 18650 (with a truly protected or IMR cell) would be the better option. At the moment, not enough is known to use stacked cells, unless you are capable of making voltage measurements, and monitoring performance of the charger and the cells.

The risk of getting counterfeits, even from a reliable vendor, is unknown. So you probably won't get a recommendation for using stacked batteries right now.

Did you opt for the single cell application, and do you know what type of cell you actually have?

 

[Katdarling]

I would second that motion.


I won't be writing anything, just reading.
Everything I know about battery safety I learned from this thread.

Everything *I* know about battery safety I learned from tearose.

<wink wink, my T>

 

[jhonutz]

slr,
if the extension tube gives you the option of using a single 18650 cell or a pair of stacked cells, the 18650 (with a truly protected or IMR cell) would be the better option. At the moment, not enough is known to use stacked cells, unless you are capable of making voltage measurements, and monitoring performance of the charger and the cells.

The risk of getting counterfeits, even from a reliable vendor, is unknown. So you probably won't get a recommendation for using stacked batteries right now.

Did you opt for the single cell application, and do you know what type of cell you actually have?

I use staked cell from 8 mounth, without problem, but only protected batt`s.It`s good to be warning but you do not overdo it. Anyway where it`s the pictures with exploded tubes ? With 3xAA box i have seen pictures in the past.

I have seen on TV a men from US with exploding Ego batt from China . The Ego have a lipo inside and weak wire soldering, in case of broken (+ wire) will be a short circuit , that lipo heat and makes pressure, tube it`s weak and explode.

 

[skipdashu]

...

Keep up with all these guidelines and we will be left only with this

LMAO... Rosy Palm goes into a new business. So how's she hit?

 

[skipdashu]

I bought a metal tube mod with the extension from a well known ecig seller..no warnings..now ecf says this..so is the seller going to give me my money back or replace it..I doubt it, I'm scared witless to use it but don't have funds to buy anything else.

Isn't the extension primarily to allow u to use a single 18650 battery?

 

[skipdashu]

Maybe some carefully crafted required reading should be a prerequisite to getting out of the new members forum. 5 posts and a read of the article and you get the run of the board after clicking, "I have read and understood ...".

It should not be long and complex. It should be something that explains the dangers of nicotine in high concentrations, skin absorption, DIY dangers, how to pick a mod, etc, with a concise explanation of why batteries explode and how to prevent it.

Hyperlinks could point the inquisitive user to the long form information.

Hey, Not a bad idea... but then I also think Les Pauls are purdy.

 

[hairball]

Isn't the extension primarily to allow u to use a single 18650 battery?

Safe answer is yes but at the same time no. The extension allows the user to use anything that will fit in there up to 7.4V (2 x 3.7V batteries stacked...hopefully the user bought protected batteries).

What Rolygate is imposing is the mod makers put plenty of ventilation in their tube mods. With proper ventilation, at best, the user will get a burned hand out of it in the event of battery failure versus a mod with no ventilation...a bomb.

If you feel the mod is unsafe and you've already purchased it, take it to a mechanic, machine shop, or a friend that has a drill press and have bigger holes drilled into it. I have several of my tube mods being done as I type this. They are mods that already had ventilation holes but I want bigger holes.

 

[pumasforpets]

Safe answer is yes but at the same time no. The extension allows the user to use anything that will fit in there up to 7.4V (2 x 3.7V batteries stacked...hopefully the user bought protected batteries).

What Rolygate is imposing is the mod makers put plenty of ventilation in their tube mods. With proper ventilation, at best, the user will get a burned hand out of it in the event of battery failure versus a mod with no ventilation...a bomb.

If you feel the mod is unsafe and you've already purchased it, take it to a mechanic, machine shop, or a friend that has a drill press and have bigger holes drilled into it. I have several of my tube mods being done as I type this. They are mods that already had ventilation holes but I want bigger holes.

And yet you thought nothing of extra venting until Rolygate mentioned it....as if he alone is the authority on such matters.

Without data, testing and thorough explanation...the guidelines are worthless and either a CYA move, an assertion of control or someone talking out of his ....

 

[tj99959]

Problem as I see it is that a tubes vent holes/slots in the wrong place is the same as no vent at all. A bat will always expand before it vents, if that expansion seals off the tube vents it's the same as no vents. Research into e-cig product safety is in it's infancy, and we are likely to see many paths followed before we really know how to make them safe.
I will say that in my opinion it's high time manufactures step up to the plate on this. It's their job to make sure their products are safe to use, not ecf's.
I also still say that preventing batteries from venting in the first place is the best solution.

 

[pumasforpets]

It appears that the section that I based this thread upon has been modified since I was last able to check it. Addressing the bold parts:

As regards cost, this will apply equally to all manufacturers, so in the end there is a level playing field. At some point in time we may begin to refer to products that do not comply with EMSS as possibly dangerous and best avoided if a safer mod is required. We will certainly be promoting mods with EMSS as safer because that is inarguable. If a mod cannot explode or fire off the atomizer then it must be safer. Therefore, there will be a marketing advantage to having the safety features.

Burns are probably inevitable - but preferable to an explosion in the face. There is no practical alternative that we can see. Blowout plugs are not as good an option for several reasons, including the fact they have resulted in injury to the user when they worked correctly. There is probably no ultimate safety feature of this type, that will absolutely prevent an explosion, without some kind of drawback.

It is most certainly arguable. Without a shred of evidence, there is nothing BUT argument. ECF's supposed, unproven and undocumented expertise is far far FAR from good enough. You MUST prove that your spec is valid BEFORE making the claim that it is valid. What's being done is completely sloppy work at best and reckless at worse. Suppose you're completely wrong and, due to not wanting to lose a large customer base, manus change to your spec. With no proof whatsoever, you are potentially putting people at more risk than had you kept your mouths shut and posted the spec only AFTER testing it.

How about the fact that the gas vent slots in your spec are now MUCH closer to the face? Did you consider at all the implications of flame venting directly into the user's face? Heat rises and bottom vents are much farther away from the face than side slots. At best, the eyes can be damaged by the intense heat. Perhaps you cannot see a practical alternative because there are too few eyes looking

 

[pumasforpets]

Problem as I see it is that a tubes vent holes/slots in the wrong place is the same as no vent at all. A bat will always expand before it vents, if that expansion seals off the tube vents it's the same as no vents. Research into e-cig product safety is in it's infancy, and we are likely to see many paths followed before we really know how to make them safe.
I will say that in my opinion it's high time manufactures step up to the plate on this. It's their job to make sure their products are safe to use, not ecf's.
I also still say that preventing batteries from venting in the first place is the best solution.

I agree to a certain extent.

Question: Are you planning on modifying or throwing out your Bullet, Key Ring and Mako since the manus didn't make sure their products are safe to use? If I'm not entirely mistaken, at least 1 if not all of those are completely sealed with no venting at all.

 

[cbrociuos]

if anyone has one of these dangerous mods they no longer want to use i would be happy to pay for them to ship it to me.

heck i might even feel compelled to give them a couple dollars for the trip to the post office. i promiss if one blows ill take; or God forbid, have someone take pictures and post them to this thread.

im just throwing this out there, if anyone is interested feel free to PM me. thanks

 

[tj99959]

I agree to a certain extent.

Question: Are you planning on modifying or throwing out your Bullet, Key Ring and Mako since the manus didn't make sure their products are safe to use? If I'm not entirely mistaken, at least 1 if not all of those are completely sealed with no venting at all.

Actually all three are vented, SB through the switch (vent above the + post of the bat, as some are promoting), Mako through the switch (bottom vent, as some are promoting) SD Key Ring where the lanyard attaches (side vent, as some are promoting)

 

[pumasforpets]

Actually all three are vented, SB through the switch (vent above the + post of the bat, as some are promoting), Mako through the switch (bottom vent, as some are promoting) SD Key Ring where the lanyard attaches (side vent, as some are promoting)

Then I guess I was mistaken!

 

[pumasforpets]

Maybe we need a big bold ECF recommendation NOT to stack batteries. Just read yet another post in the noob forum where the first reply suggested to stack for higher voltage for a noob using a Blu who wanted more vapor...

I'm sitting here vaping on a Don in 3.7v protected 18650 configuration with a 1.7ohm atty with 60/40 juice and the amount of vapor is plentiful. I threw in The Kick with an 18500 IMR and cranked it to 10W earlier just for the hell of it and damn near passed out...had to turn it down. What the hell does a noob need with 6v+?!

3.7v + 1.7ohm = 8.05W
6.0v + 4.5ohm = 8.00W

Who wants to bet the noob would stack 2x 3.7v (at the recommendation of a more senior member no less) using the same 1.5ohm DCCs he's heard so many good things about on ECF instantly running 4.93A @ 36.5W through his PV/batts...which he obviously would not have checked with an MM before throwing in?


We need more than just the manufacturers to be responsible (which they should be obviously). Moderators need to get on the ball and warn against suggesting dangerous configurations and a sticky needs to include detailed battery information and warnings.

 

[Rocketman]

Because a 'Real Man' vapes LR @ HV.

Some need it, some don't.
I guess it's a shame the Kick won't do 20 watts.

Strange Pet Guy:
I agree with you that we should be cautious about what we recommend. ECF can have an "Official Position" on Mods, stacking, knowledge, but those with the 20 watt mods and a lot of spare time will post their recommendations to the Noob without thinking.

I'm getting "tons of vapor" (the correct terminology for bragging) with a really big 3.7 volt single cell IMR and protected mod and a Dual Coil 1.5 ohm EPDCC (giant size carto )



A thought for the VV and DIY crowd. Why not mix your juice for a fixed voltage instead of moving the voltage around to make the juice taste right?

 

[mwa102464]

I laugh myself when I see these recommendations of stroking 6V into a 1.5ohm-2ohm Carto, they should dissect that carto after a bit and look at the center of it too, besides not doing it for the Batts sake. 3.7v-4.2v is more then enough for a 1.5 Anything but 6-6.4V can be a very nice vape on a 3.5ohm Atty.

 

[pumasforpets]

Because a 'Real Man' vapes LR @ HV.

Some need it, some don't.
I guess it's a shame the Kick won't do 20 watts.

Strange Pet Guy:
I agree with you that we should be cautious about what we recommend. ECF can have an "Official Position" on Mods, stacking, knowledge, but those with the 20 watt mods and a lot of spare time will post their recommendations to the Noob without thinking.

I'm getting "tons of vapor" (the correct terminology for bragging) with a really big 3.7 volt single cell IMR and protected mod and a Dual Coil 1.5 ohm EPDCC (giant size carto )

A thought for the VV and DIY crowd. Why not mix your juice for a fixed voltage instead of moving the voltage around to make the juice taste right?

Why just 20watts? When this baby gets to 88 watts you're gonna see some serious .....! 1.21gigawatts?

I laugh myself when I see these recommendations of stroking 6V into a 1.5ohm-2ohm Carto, they should dissect that carto after a bit and look at the center of it too, besides not doing it for the Batts sake. 3.7v-4.2v is more then enough for a 1.5 Anything but 6-6.4V can be a very nice vape on a 3.5ohm Atty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of 4.6v on a 3.2ohm carto in my CAPBM (cheap ... plastic box mod), but I religiously check voltage and use only protected or IMR batts and the door falls off from a slight bump, let alone violent venting The noob was getting a recommendation to stack @6-7.4v in a Silver Bullet with no recommendation for resistance or warning about risk.

 

[Rocketman]

Is the SB the one that just goes "Blump" when a cell blows?
Seems I read that somewhere.