Reo Grand doesn't cut it for Sub Ohm Vaping

[niczgreat]

I bought a Reo Grand and it was the worst purchase I've made in a year. At the end of the transaction I ended up losing over $50.00. The service was decent but not stellar, so I don't have an axe to grind.

Rob did not want to take the unit back and only did so after I documented my results with a video showing what the Reo is doing in Sub Ohm vaping.

I'm not Reo Bashing, the Reo has many good features and if you like plain Jane vaping on a stick atomizer the Reo is fine. My issue is that the design of the Reo Grand is over 2 years old and hasn't kept up with technology for conductivity at Low Ohms.

With Sub Ohm Atomizers the Reo just doesn't cut it. I have a VV Bogger Box it doesn't play nice with sub 1 Ohm vaping but it will take a 1 Ohm atomizer above 5v which is far beyond the tolerances of a 3.7V Mechanical.

To me a reason for a mechanical is to get involved with Sub Ohm Vaping. I bought a Reo thinking that I was buying a top quality mechanical.

To give Rob credit, I don't think that he was aware of the problem because if you are vaping on a normal atomizer let's say at 2 Ohm there is little voltage drop.

But when you vape on a .5 Ohm Atomizer the voltage drop is over 1 Volt. This makes the Reo unusable for Sub Ohm Vaping. I feel that there should be a disclaimer on the Reo Page that the APV is not designed for Sub Ohm Vaping.

By the way for just about the same price as the Reo you can get a VV Bogger Box and it blows the Reo away in performance.

Seeing is believing

 

[new kid]

tomzgreat, interesting analysis. Appreciate you sharing your insights. I'm not into using micro coils, just never had the desire. It's posts like yours that makes me interested in trying them. There are a couple of things I disagree with in your post. I do hope I'm not misinterpreting anything.

There are others using the Reo with sub-ohm coils and micro coils without any issues. Micro coils are (arguably) said to be similar performance to sub-ohm coils. It is a matter of choice and preference. Micro coils, which work excellent on the Reo, are as new a vaping approach sub-ohm. Here is one thread which discusses them and has examples of both sub ohm and micro coils on a Reo using the RM2 RBA. Have you ever compared the two coil types?

That a Reo does not handle a sub ohm coil does not, in my opinion, make a less than a top quality mechanical or a "plan Jane". Many people use micro coils with excellent results not just "stick atomizers" on their Reo's. In fact, the micro coils are very popular on Reo RBA's.

I don't think its fair to call Rob's customer service "decent".

The service was decent but not stellar, so I don't have an axe to grind.

Rob did not want to take the unit back and only did so after I documented my results with a video showing what the Reo is doing in Sub Ohm Vaping.

The return policy on the website is clearly states in the FAQ:

If I don’t like my Reo, can I return it?

No, we do not accept returns on used devices. We don’t sell used devices and therefore, cannot accept used devices. If your Reo is in new condition, never been used, we are willing to refund your money once the device is returned and found to be in new condition. There are plenty of classifieds you can sell your used Reo on for nearly what you paid for it.

That Robert took the Reo back makes is in my opinion stellar customer service. No returns on vape gear is becoming common across the industry. Robert waived his Terms Of Sale and accepted the return and that seams much more than "decent".

While you said you were not "Reo bashing" it comes across that way to me. The Reo may not meet your needs but that does not make it a "plan Jane", sub-par, or outdated device. I have a Reo along with my other mechanical, VV and VW PV's. I feel its a top notch PV with outstanding build quality. I use them all for different reasons but there is no way I'd give up my Reo.

 

[niczgreat]

OP, nobody cares. Literally, no one gives a rats ... about your diatribes or your home movie. I only posted this because I felt sorry for you since you went thru all that trouble making an ... out of yourself on camera and no one even cares.

Your gonna put your eye out Ralphie.

You should be ashamed of yourself for attacking the Poster and not the Content.
You should reconsider the post above it doesn't cast you in a good light.

My Video with Tests and Conclusions is Accurate.

 

[niczgreat]

tomzgreat, interesting analysis. Appreciate you sharing your insights. I'm not into using micro coils, just never had the desire. It's posts like yours that makes me interested in trying them. There are a couple of things I disagree with in your post. I do hope I'm not misinterpreting anything.

There are others using the Reo with sub-ohm coils and micro coils without any issues. Micro coils are (arguably) said to be similar performance to sub-ohm coils. It is a matter of choice and preference. Micro coils, which work excellent on the Reo, are as new a vaping approach sub-ohm. Here is one thread which discusses them and has examples of both sub ohm and micro coils on a Reo using the RM2 RBA. Have you ever compared the two coil types?

That a Reo does not handle a sub ohm coil does not, in my opinion, make a less than a top quality mechanical or a "plan Jane". Many people use micro coils with excellent results not just "stick atomizers" on their Reo's. In fact, the micro coils are very popular on Reo RBA's.

I don't think its fair to call Rob's customer service "decent".


The return policy on the website is clearly states in the FAQ:



That Robert took the Reo back makes is in my opinion stellar customer service. No returns on vape gear is becoming common across the industry. Robert waived his Terms Of Sale and accepted the return and that seams much more than "decent".

While you said you were not "Reo bashing" it comes across that way to me. The Reo may not meet your needs but that does not make it a "plan Jane", sub-par, or outdated device. I have a Reo along with my other mechanical, VV and VW PV's. I feel its a top notch PV with outstanding build quality. I use them all for different reasons but there is no way I'd give up my Reo.

Just some quick responses.

1. I stayed clear of the customer service issue but since you think it's stellar, I'll explain why it's not.
When I had a problem with another bottom feeder the vendor "Call Tagged " the unit. That is stellar customer service. The Reo Arrived defective I returned it on my own dime and it was sent back to me. Robert does not do call tags. That is average customer service on an above $100.00 unit. He did return it to me very fast.

2. The Reo does not have a disclaimer that it is not suitable for Sub Ohm Vaping. Some other companies have disclaimers about this. The Reo has a real flaw that I've documented and was not disclosed to me as a customer.
If the Reo Website had a disclaimer that the REO is not for Vaping sub ohm than I would not have a leg to stand on.

In my opinion the assumption that a "Mechanical" would be vapable at .5 Ohm is perfectly reasonable.

3. In terms of Refund, I spent over $180.00 on my purchase. When the Reo arrived defective, I used the rebuild kit to rebuild it. Also bought around $10.00 to $20.00 in extra bottles. All were returned except the rebuild kit. I was refunded $140.00 he kept the unused bottles and didn't refund them along with not refunding the rebuild kit that was used to try to fix the faulty APV. [He Stated that there was a problem with the unit initially] He also did not reimburse the freight for the first return that was due to a defective unit.

Excellent customer service would have been to refund the complete $180.00. Good customer service would be to to refund somewhere in the middle. Decent customer service was to make a partial refund, which he did. Poor customer service would have been not to do a refund, after a customer demonstrated that the product has a flaw that wasn't disclosed and affects the usability of the product.

No I don't feel that his customer service was above decent. I have documented a reasonable reason for the return.

 

[niczgreat]

Res ipsa Loquitor
Look at the testing results.
The Reo has a unacceptable voltage drop on a .5 Ohm RBA. A $25.00 low end K100 outperformed the Reo by around 1/2 V, that's fact not opinion.

In some ways the Reo is a Top Quality Mechanical but in Sub Ohm Vaping the tests just don't back that up.

That a Reo does not handle a sub ohm coil does not, in my opinion, make a less than a top quality mechanical or a "plan Jane". Many people use micro coils with excellent results not just "stick atomizers" on their Reo's. /QUOTE]

 

[niczgreat]

" Many people use micro coils with excellent results not just "stick atomizers" on their Reo's."

I looked at your post for Micro Coils, and I'll be happy to add a statement.

I've been told that Vaping on a REO with a RBA using Micro Coils is a satisfying vape*

*I have no experience with Micro Coils and did not set them up on a REO but it would be unfair for me not to mention this now that I've been informed.

 

[_more_]

tomzgreat, Just curious as to why you are comparing a mechanical to a VV? Did you know that REO does have a VV Grand? AS for saying that the REO is outdated because how can something perfectly made be outdated?

REO's Mods has the best CS and a forum where people can always get support and make friends

 

[niczgreat]

tomzgreat, Just curious as to why you are comparing a mechanical to a VV? Did you know that REO does have a VV Grand? AS for saying that the REO is outdated because how can something perfectly made be outdated?

REO's Mods has the best CS and a forum where people can always get support and make friends

My cause of dissatisfaction was the performance of the the Reo Grande in Sub Ohm Vaping.

I brought in a VV to show why I purchased the REO Grande and why it was unsuitable.

Some individuals might have thought that I only purchased the Reo to Bash it. So I demonstrated why I bought it.

My reason for purchase was that my VV doesn't do sub OHM. I was looking for a High Quality Mechanical Bottom Feeder to do Sub Ohm Vaping. The Reo fell short because of the huge Voltage Drop under load at .5 OHM.

The Reo is a design that's two years old. There is a lot of newer technology going into Mechanical. The 1-1.2v loss of the REO at .5V OHM made the REO Grand Unvapable [To my Taste]. If it were being updated, higher conductivity Metal, Higher conductivity Spring than we wouldn't see this Voltage Drop. I took the Reo apart and it's obvious that it wasn't built with conductivity in mind.

I mentioned at the end of the Video that REO also has a VV Model. I don't have a VV Reo and wouldn't buy it due to the 15 Watt limitation. But if you watched the video to the end, I mention it as an alternative.

 

[niczgreat]

I've documented a flaw in the REO Grand and I invite anyone to get testing equipment, duplicate my testing method and find that my testing is wrong.

Much overlooked, I stated at the beginning and in my conclusion that the Reo was fine for the majority but not for Sub Ohm Vaping.

Really what more needs to be said.

 

[new kid]

I've documented a flaw in the REO Grand and I invite anyone to get testing equipment, duplicate my testing method and find that my testing is wrong.

Much overlooked, I stated at the beginning and in my conclusion that the Reo was fine for the majority but not for Sub Ohm Vaping.

Really what more needs to be said.

tomzgreat,

I don't see anyone saying your tests were not valid or incorrect, I certainly did not think so. But since you brought it up, did you use the provided Noalox as Robert recommends in his instructions? I ask because this might change the results. The point I was making is that just because you find it not suitable for sub om vaping does not mean that is the case for everyone.

In the post I referenced earlier there were examples of people using the Reo for sub ohm vaping and happy with the results. I fully appreciate that you may not be satisfied with it. However, to put a blanket statement out that it "doesn't cut it for Sub Ohm Vaping" is not accurate since others use it for sub ohm and are happy with it. If the device failed or would not even come close I could understand that. Everyone has a different happy-spot for their PV vapor. Regardless of the performance of the PV and JDS the end result is the users personal opinion on what is good or not. The end result of someone's opinion of a great vape is not a factor of ohms law but in vapor, TH, and flavor.

I am still getting the impression from your OP and responses you are Reo bashing. I can certainly agree that it may not be right for you but the blanket statements in your OP and subsequent posts lead me to believe Reo bashing is the intent of the post. I think it would have been more accurate Just saying there was a 1v drop when sub ohm vaping.

I'm still thinking about trying sub ohm coils in the near future as well as micro coils. Your OP still makes me curious what the performance would be like. I am always looking for a better vape. All the hype about sub ohm and micro coils peak's my curiosity.

 

[new kid]

Just some quick responses.


2. The Reo does not have a disclaimer that it is not suitable for Sub Ohm Vaping. Some other companies have disclaimers about this. The Reo has a real flaw that I've documented and was not disclosed to me as a customer.
If the Reo Website had a disclaimer that the REO is not for Vaping sub ohm than I would not have a leg to stand on.

In my opinion the assumption that a "Mechanical" would be vapable at .5 Ohm is perfectly reasonable.

3. In terms of Refund, I spent over $180.00 on my purchase. When the Reo arrived defective, I used the rebuild kit to rebuild it. Also bought around $10.00 to $20.00 in extra bottles. All were returned except the rebuild kit. I was refunded $140.00 he kept the unused bottles and didn't refund them along with not refunding the rebuild kit that was used to try to fix the faulty APV. [He Stated that there was a problem with the unit initially] He also did not reimburse the freight for the first return that was due to a defective unit.

Excellent customer service would have been to refund the complete $180.00. Good customer service would be to to refund somewhere in the middle. Decent customer service was to make a partial refund, which he did. Poor customer service would have been not to do a refund, after a customer demonstrated that the product has a flaw that wasn't disclosed and affects the usability of the product.

No I don't feel that his customer service was above decent. I have/had a documented and reasonable reason for the return.

The buyer paying for return shipping is on the FAQ page. I don't understand why after agreeing to it as part of your purchase you would find it average. Personally, these are always things I check before I buy. I am very into Caveat Emptor.

The Reo does work at .5 ohms but just not to your qualifications. Others may disagree and I did a separate post on this.

We obviously disagree on the quality of service - and that's not a problem. Everything you said meets or exceeds the information on the site and the terms of sale. I can understand and appreciate why you feel it was not. Our definitions of customer service quality differ.

Edit: After I sent this I thought it would be better if I identified my opinion of customer service quality. Personally, I base it on how well a business responds and handles the post sales as defined in the terms of sale. I may feel I want something more than the terms of sale specifies but to me that is a mute point once I have agreed to them. If I didn't like the terms of the sale I won't buy.

 

[niczgreat]

The buyer paying for return shipping is on the FAQ page. I don't understand why after agreeing to it as part of your purchase you would find it average. Personally, these are always things I check before I buy. I am very into Caveat Emptor.

The Reo does work at .5 ohms but just not to your qualifications. Others may disagree and I did a separate post on this.

We obviously disagree on the quality of service - and that's not a problem. Everything you said meets or exceeds the information on the site and the terms of sale. I can understand and appreciate why you feel it was not. Our definitions of customer service quality differ.

Edit: After I sent this I thought it would be better if I identified my opinion of customer service quality. Personally, I base it on how well a business responds and handles the post sales as defined in the terms of sale. I may feel I want something more than the terms of sale specifies but to me that is a mute point once I have agreed to them. If I didn't like the terms of the sale I won't buy.

When I entered into this purchase,how could I know from all the positive reviews of the Reo that it would be so flawed, that I'd have no use for it. Do you really think that I'd buy 5 or so empty Bottles and a re-build kit if I expected it to fail.

I didn't even look at the FAQ or Warranty because no one ever posted that the REO had these problems. It had such a following and so many positive reviews, I never imagined that it could be so flawed, and that no one would post about it.

Maybe the hateful post I received from super_X_drifter is why someone would be scared to post an honest review of the Reo Grand with some strong negatives in it.

To me the definition of Excellent Customer Service is that I walk away from a transaction happy. Even even if it didn't work out the vendor did the extra to make me happy.

I have purchased online for four years and haven't returned much. If I return an item than it's because it has a defect. The Reo Grand has a defect that makes it unusable for .5 Ohm vaping.

 

[ForeverTwoWheels]

OP I saw your review on YouTube before the purchase of my Reo. So I went with it, been vaping it for over a week and glad I made the purchase. I had a day of .5 vaping with no issues and on the 4th had it set up at .7 with all day continuous use from everybody at the party with out a flaw. Now it wasn't a kick you in the chest OMG what the hell is this type of vape but it was still satisfying for a bunch of drunks. I'm rocking a 1.5 micro with 30AWG right now and loving it. It's no Genisis but it's still a great vape. I measured the Voltage drop and it was at about .3 and I think thats pretty good.

 

[niczgreat]

I'm glad that you are happy with it.
Has anyone at any point heard me say " Don't Buy a Reo "? I reviewed the unit and posted my Scientific Test Results. I've said what I think it's good for and what I think it isn't.

You did end up at 1.5 Ohm which I stated in the review is fine for that unit.
I also mentioned in the review that at the higher Ohms it doesn't have too much of a voltage drop.

I already have a VV Bogger Box, I can run at 1.5V at over 5V Stable.
My specific purpose for buying the REO was different from yours.

I bought it for Sub Ohm Vaping .5 OHM and below and under those paramaters, I'll stand by my review.
Taste is subjective, but the testing instruments aren't. The Reo loses 1V-1.2V under load at .5 OHM and that is 1/2 Volt more loss than a K100 Mechanical, which is not considered high end.

 

[super_X_drifter]

I believe you actually bought the REO with the intent to bash it - here's a thread where you bash them pretty good long before you bought one.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9155804

No one who feels that strongly against something would suddenly go out and buy it unless they had similar intentions to yours (bashing it) in mind.

And this whole "Dude, I'm all about Sub ohm vaping" thing you got going on - come on, a few months ago you were opining new members which ego batteries and cartomizers to buy.

You should just enjoy your vape, get over it that no one gave you any free or discounted products and enjoy your life.

And if you consider my opinions "hateful" I'd say that you have lived a very sheltered life.

 

[niczgreat]

I'm glad that I have Super_X_Drifter on my ignore list which means I can't see his posts. He probably wrote something above that was really ignorant.

I'm not really interested in what he has to say.

 

[new kid]

I'm glad that you are happy with it.
Has anyone at any point heard me say " Don't Buy a Reo "? I reviewed the unit and posted my Scientific Test Results. I've said what I think it's good for and what I think it isn't.

You did end up at 1.5 Ohm which I stated in the review is fine for that unit.
I also mentioned in the review that at the higher Ohms it doesn't have too much of a voltage drop.

I already have a VV Bogger Box, I can run at 1.5V at over 5V Stable.
My specific purpose for buying the REO was different from yours.

I bought it for Sub Ohm Vaping .5 OHM and below and under those paramaters, I'll stand by my review.
Taste is subjective, but the testing instruments aren't. The Reo loses 1V-1.2V under load at .5 OHM and that is 1/2 Volt more loss than a K100 Mechanical, which is not considered high end.

For the most part, I don't disagree with any of your statements above. My disagreement is still why this makes it "usable for sub ohm"? My assertions are:

1. While ohms law is the method to get there, the end result (vapor, th, flavor) is what people judge and they are subjective.
2. You are comparing the vape quality of a mechanical to a VV (regulated) device with different battery configurations.
3. Assuming you used the Noalox, the Reo does show a drop of .24v (from what you showed on screen)
4. You were not satisfied with the vape quality of the K100 or the Reo.
4. A .24v drop alone does not make a PV "unusable for sub ohm vaping" (results in a variation of 3.65w - but still high power)
5. This device does not meet your personal expectations but does fire a sub ohm rba.
6. Other people use sub ohm on the device and are happy with the performance.

I'll agree all day long that you don't like it, your tests show voltage drops and you bought a Reo with different expectations. I don't agree that you have established it is "unusable for sub ohm vaping". Even in your video you say "to me its just about unvapable" which is a long way from "unusable" and implies your personal tastes come into play.

 

[niczgreat]

Did you watch the whole video. At the higher Ohm there wasn't too much of a difference but when you went down to .5 Ohm than there was a 1-1.2 V Drop with the Reo. The K100 had around a 1/2 V Drop.

That 1/2 Volt difference is Huge. Many Vapers on a Mechanical change there batteries at 3.7v. So the Reo on a Fully Charged battery is at the Change Battery level on a K100 or a normal Mechanical Mod.

Please see the whole video. By the way I show the numbers, and I agree that taste is subjective, so if a Vaper is happy with that type of performance than they will still purchase the Reo Grand. But 99% of the Vapers that I know on a Mechanical at sub .5Ohm wouldn't be satisfied.

I posted the Data from my tests and made an interpretation based on them. Because the Data is shown an individual may choose to make their own interpretation. And relate it to there own vaping style.

ForeverTwoWheels bought a Reo and is happy, that's great, he says he saw my video, interpreted the Data that the performance would be fine for him and bought the REO Grand.

He made an informed decision. Isn't that what the consumer is supposed to do.?

Because my video is the first one documenting the performance on the REO Grand at sub Ohm, I couldn't make an informed decision. I had to be an unknowing Guinea Pig.

For the most part, I don't disagree with any of your statements above. My disagreement is still why this makes it "usable for sub ohm"? My assertions are:

1. While ohms law is the method to get there, the end result (vapor, th, flavor) is what people judge and they are subjective.
2. You are comparing the vape quality of a mechanical to a VV (regulated) device with different battery configurations.
3. Assuming you used the Noalox, the Reo does show a drop of .24v (from what you showed on screen)
4. You were not satisfied with the vape quality of the K100 or the Reo.
4. A .24v drop alone does not make a PV "unusable for sub ohm vaping" (results in a variation of 3.65w - but still high power)
5. This device does not meet your personal expectations but does fire a sub ohm rba.
6. Other people use sub ohm on the device and are happy with the performance.

I'll agree all day long that you don't like it, your tests show voltage drops and you bought a Reo with different expectations. I don't agree that you have established it is "unusable for sub ohm vaping". Even in your video you say "to me its just about unvapable" which is a long way from "unusable" and implies your personal tastes come into play.

 

[_more_]

I am glad super_X_drifter posted on this thread as he has proven that he KNOWS how to use the REO's with the reomizer and has a lot of people that go to him for advice. He even has a complete guide he has written with pics in the stickies of the REO forum

Before i purchased my first Reo i went to the forum and asked questions and read a lot and am still impressed with all the knowledge and the vids demonstrating how to use the mods correctly.

@tomzgreat, Have you ever posted in the Reo forum because they help people having any problems or questions.

 

[new kid]

Did you watch the whole video. At the higher Ohm there wasn't too much of a difference but when you went down to .5 Ohm than there was a 1-1.2 V Drop with the Reo. The K100 had around a 1/2 V Drop.

That 1/2 Volt difference is Huge. Most Vapers on a Mechanical change there batteries at 3.7v. So the Reo on a Fully Charged battery is at the Change Battery level on a K100 or a normal Mod.

Please see the whole video. By the way I show the numbers, and I agree that taste is subjective, so if a Vaper is happy with that type of performance than they will still purchase the Reo Grand. But 99% of the Vapers that I know on a Mechanical at sub .5Ohm wouldn't be satisfied.

I posted the Data from my tests and made an interpretation based on them. Because the Data is shown an individual may choose to make their own interpretation. And relate it to there own vaping style.

ForeverTwoWheels bought a Reo and is happy, that's great, he says he saw my video, interpreted the Data that the performance would be fine for him and bought the REO Grand.

He made an informed decision. Isn't that what the consumer is supposed to do.?

So, since you haven't said you used the Noalox I can only assume you didn't. This makes all your data questionable.

It's apparent we are not going to reach consensus. I'm not saying that with any other reason than I think its true and I honestly am not bothered by it at all. We discussed our points openly and after all that is what it is all about. Thanks for taking the time to clarify your points.

Happy Vaping!