Savannah,GA in the brink of Banning the look of smoking

[rothenbj]

Yup, they're not only planning on banning smoking and E-Cigs, but the appearance of smoking-

"C. "E-cigarette" means any electronic device composed of a mouthpiece, heating element, battery,and electronic circuits that provides a vapor of liquid nicotine and/or other substances mixed with propylene glycol to the user as he or she simulates smoking. The term shall include such devices whether they are manufactured as e-cigarettes, e-cigars, or e-pipes, or under any other
product name."

Emphasis added. All for public safety.

The full proposed ordinance-

Ordinance

 

[PlanetScribbles]

Fascism? Are biro pens included in that?
Unbelievable.

 

[karmatized]

i looked it over and it does not appear to be a outright ban, but rather a indoor ban.

 

[sherid]

i looked it over and it does not appear to be a outright ban, but rather a indoor ban.

An indoor ban is the first step to a comprehensive ban.

 

[rothenbj]

i looked it over and it does not appear to be a outright ban, but rather a indoor ban.

That's what some said as they started with smoking bans in government buildings. Look where they've progressed to today. Any ban, indoor or outdoor, of E-cigs or "the appearance of smoking" is ludicrous without some established health risk. JMHO

 

[Vocalek]

And here we get to the crux of the matter.

O. "Smoking" means inhaling, exhaling, burning, or carrying any lighted or heated cigar, cigarette, or pipe, or any other lighted or heated tobacco or plant product intended for inhalation, in any manner or in any form. "Smoking" also includes the use of an e-cigarette which creates a vapor, in any manner or in any form, or the use of any oral smoking device for the purpose of circumventing the prohibition of smoking in this Article.

The keepers of the nanny state perceive e-cigarette users as defiant children who refuse to obey their rules.

I couldn't care less about "circumventing the prohibition of smoking." My purpose was to eliminate my own smoking and thereby avoid a premature death from lung disease, heart disease, or cancer. As long as my vapor presents zero risk of harming the health of bystanders, I see no reason why I should be forced to go outside in the elements when using my device.

Prove to me that the vapor endangers public health and I'll rethink my position. All the evidence so far points in the opposite direction. Health New Zealand pronounced the vapor harmless inhaled or exhaled. Given the fact that directly inhaling the vapor has improved the health of 90% of users, how is it possible that the exhaled vapor contains some dangerous substance that would harm bystanders and that this substance has somehow escaped detection by numerous toxicologists who have tested the liquid and the vapor?

The proliferation of indoor smoking bans being amended to specifically include vapor underscores the critical need for the indoor air quality study (IVAQS) sponsored by the Vapors Coalition. You can donate through CASAA here: CASAA.org

As worded, this ordinance would prohibit the use of prescription Nicotrol inhalers.

 

[Vocalek]

They were inviting the public to comment on the proposed ordinance.

Comment on smoke-free Savannah ordinance

The first public meeting on the smoke-free ordinance will be held at 3 p.m. Wednesday, July 21, in Council Chambers at Savannah City Hall, 2 E. Bay St. The second opportunity for comment will be at the Quarterly Town Hall Meeting, 7 p.m. Wednesday, July 28, in the Savannah Civic Center Ballroom.

What happened at these meetings?

 

[Vocalek]

Just in case this has not yet been passed, I left a comment using their Talk Back feature.

Regarding the inclusion of "electronic cigarettes" in the proposed Smoke-Free Savannah Ordinance:

1. Propylene Glycol (PG) is the chemical used in artificial fog machines that are employed in theatrical productions, concert venues, and training for fire-fighters. PG is "Generally Recognized as Safe" by the FDA.
2. About a million former smokers have switched to electronic cigarettes due to health concerns, not "for the purpose of circumventing the prohibition of smoking."
3. 79% of e-cigarette consumers have substituted vapor for all of their smoked cigarettes, and another 17% have significantly reduced the number they smoke.
4. Over 90% of consumers report that their health has improved.
5. Smoke and vapor are very different. Smoke contains tar, carbon monoxide, particles of ash, and over 4,000 chemicals created by the process of burning. Vapor does not contain any of these.
6. Vapor does not endanger the health of bystanders. Health New Zealand has conducted testing and declared that the vapor is "harmless inhaled or exhaled". Ecigarette mist harmless, inhaled or exhaled
7. Forcing e-cigarette users into the smoking section exposes them to the dangers of 2nd hand smoke. This is not conducive to the continued good health of these former smokers.
8. Including e-cigarettes in smoking bans discourages continuing smokers from making the switch to an alternative that reduces the user's risk of smoking-related disease by up to 99%.

I can send you documentation on all of the above points. By what means and to whom should this be addressed?

 

[TropicalBob]

The appearance of smoking is all that matters, or needs to, in their minds. Reason won't carry the day. Remember that Mexico banned chocolate cigars and bubble-gum cigarettes on the basis of appearance alone.

"Think of the children" is all they need to say.

 

[Janetda]

LOL, ok I've never noticed this before, but the Health New Zealand page says:

[FONT="]Second hand mist from an [I]e-cigarette[/I] is not smoke at all, [/FONT][/B][FONT="]and does not contain any substance known to cause death, short or long term, in the quantities found. It becomes invisible within a few seconds, and is not detectable by smell.

[/FONT]

What exactly is short term death?

 

[Vocalek]

I'm pretty sure by short term he means "quickly" and by "long term" he means that it takes years and years to getcha, like real smoke.

 

[CJsKee]

LOL...maybe he means "harm" instead of "death" ???

 

[Vocalek]

Well, maybe he did mean that it contains nothing that will make you drop dead immediately (which seems to be what the "antifreeze" crowd has their knickers in a bunch over) and nothing that will get you after many years, like the "carcinogens" the FDA was so enthusiastic about.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Since Americans for Nonsmokers Rights decided to include a ban on e-cigarette usage in its model smokefree workplace ordinance, we should expect all (or nearly all) newly proposed smokefree workplace ordinances to also include a ban on e-cigarette usage.

We also need to continue contacting all legislative bodies (and/or boards of health) where e-cigarette usage bans have been proposed, informing them of the enormous differences between cigarettes and e-cigarettes, and urging them to remove the e-cigarette language from the proposed legislaition/regulation.

 

[Tom09]

Since Americans for Nonsmokers Rights decided to include a ban on e-cigarette usage in its model smokefree workplace ordinance, we should expect all (or nearly all) newly proposed smokefree workplace ordinances to also include a ban on e-cigarette usage.

We also need to continue contacting all legislative bodies (and/or boards of health) where e-cigarette usage bans have been proposed, informing them of the enormous differences between cigarettes and e-cigarettes, and urging them to remove the e-cigarette language from the proposed legislaition/regulation.

There might still be a chance to influence the Savannah situation: last public hearing is set for August 12.

 

[yvilla]

I just checked CASAA's list of people who have volunteered to be regional reps, and unfortunately there is no one for any part of Georgia, let alone Savannah in particular.

We will of course write the Savannah Mayor and City Council members, but we really need people on the ground to attend that public hearing!

If anyone knows of vapers in Savannah or nearby, or ecig suppliers in the area, please let me know.

 

[Reyth]

And here we get to the crux of the matter:

The keepers of the nanny state perceive e-cigarette users as defiant children who refuse to obey their rules.

AMAZING how accurate this statement is.

The common wisdom is that it is about control of populations not specific issues (whether it be 'global warming' or ecigs/health).

Vocalek you are the r0x0r!

 

[Vocalek]

And after all this time, we find out:

E-Cigarettes, private clubs and more gets pass in smoking ban | The Coastal Source

 

[Bill Godshall]

This article is ironic since Savannah City Council banned smoking and e-cig use in workplaces last year.

Is Savannah in Chatham County?

If so, perhaps the Chatham County Commissioner's proposal (which only applies to unincorporated areas of the county) doesn't apply to Savannah.

 

[Bill Godshall]

According to
Chatham County, Georgia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Savannah is the county seat of Chatham County, and the largest city in the County.

It appears that the newly proposed ordinance for Chatham County wouldn't apply to Savannah (or other incorporated municipalities in the county, but not sure which are incorporated and which ones aren't).