it doesn't look good for the city of Birmingham

[Placebo Effect]

CASAA member speaks at around 37 minutes, 45 seconds into the video in this news story

UPDATED: Birmingham City Council snuffs out smoking in Birmingham | Second Front

 

[CES]

Thank you for getting your sister involved TennDave- and all the letters people wrote made a huge difference. we all made a difference

Placebo Effect- tell me you didn't watch the entire two hours and 14 minutes of that hearing- ...(i had no idea that weld posted the whole thing)

 

[Placebo Effect]

Thank you for getting your sister involved TennDave- and all the letters people wrote made a huge difference. we all made a difference

Placebo Effect- tell me you didn't watch the entire two hours and 14 minutes of that hearing- ...(i had no idea that weld posted the whole thing)

Haha. I spent about 20 minutes skipping through and catching the "highlights."

 

[Luisa]

We WON!!!!

they exempted e-cigs from the ordinance!!!



They ended up just striking e-cigs from the definition of smoking (as above), but at at one point they were going to use language stating that e-cigs were exempt until the FDA showed that e-cigs posed a danger to others.

The absolute BEST moment was when the city council president asked me what they should be called..I said "smoke-free e-cigarettes". And two antz reps shouted out "no they're not"....

Good for you! Thank you to everyone who attended the meeting. It is amazing what can be done when we all work together and SHOW UP when bans are being considered!

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

We WON!!!!

they exempted e-cigs from the ordinance!!!



They ended up just striking e-cigs from the definition of smoking (as above), but at at one point they were going to use language stating that e-cigs were exempt until the FDA showed that e-cigs posed a danger to others.

The absolute BEST moment was when the city council president asked me what they should be called..I said "smoke-free e-cigarettes". And two antz reps shouted out "no they're not"....

Thank You CES and the others who wrote, emailed, called or showed up to stand up for us.
Glad to see the ANTZ haven't changed, either ignorant or lying as usual.

:

 

[rothenbj]

Haha. I spent about 20 minutes skipping through and catching the "highlights."

I spent a little longer looking for all convos on PVs, especially catching the ANTZ rep from I think the ALA. They must use a script, then at the end she pulls an asthma inhaler out to emphasis that this ordinance will allow her to go into all those business that she'll never go to anyway.

From listening to the mass of supporters for these bans from people that will never go to these businesses anyway, I sense we are seeing mass neurosis occurring in this country over smoking/tobacco. Every disease afflicting young to old was caused by a whiff of SHS. It might be a good time to market "smoke" masks to protect everyone from this lethal dose.

 

[CES]

You're absolutely right rothenbj...every illness ever was caused by exposure to smoke. One person gave a whole litany of all of the different types of cancers that were cause by SHS. I was tempted to tell the person with the inhaler that her inhaler might also have been banned ans smoking if she let any of the aerosol escape when she used it.

The only deviation from the ALA ACS script was that they've backed down on the FDA "research" related to PV's...enough so that the council said, well if the FDA hasn't found any danger to others then there's no reason to include them in the ordinance.

Did y'all catch the guy who said "if cigarettes are so bad, why don't you just ban them and stop collecting the taxes?"

Have i said thanks CASAA yet? THANK YOU CASAA!!

 

[Vocalek]

The only deviation from the ALA ACS script was that they've backed down on the FDA "research" related to PV's...enough so that the council said, well if the FDA hasn't found any danger to others then there's no reason to include them in the ordinance.

Wow! I wonder if the Alabama ALA and ACS reps read my article: FDA's partial truths and exaggerations endanger health

Or any other of the many articles that have been written to debunk the FDA's testing.

 

[DC2]

If every time an ANTZ started talking about the FDA test results we responded with "Hey, thanks for bringing that up!" and then went on to show how the FDA testing is a great example because it proves conclusively how safe electronic cigarettes really are... then I suspect the ANTZ would quickly stop bringing it up.

Every opportunity we get to defang and declaw them should not be missed, because when they have no more fangs and no more claws, they will have no choice but to shut up and get out of our way. And in the end, the only claw I see them having is the tried and true "But what about the children?" crap. But the world is catching on to that one, and I see it losing effectiveness at some point.

 

[Vocalek]

And indeed, two can play the "what about the children" game. Those who have children that are happy that their parent no longer smokes can talk about this fact in their personal story. Refer to the kids by their names and ages. When showing up in person to testify at public meetings, don't hesitate to bring your child with you. If s/he is old and enough and wants to speak, that's great. But even if not, you can nod at the child when you are giving your testimony and talk about how "Little Johnny used to worry about my health..."

 

[CES]

The antz reps at both Birmingham public hearings struggled with the FDA thing. It seemed to throw them off when i used CASAA's language .."reviews of the available evidence -including review of the testing conducted by the FDA in 2009- concluded that there is no justification for banning the indoor use of e-cigarettes based on potential harm to bystanders." They really didn't try very hard to play the FDA card the second time. It doesn't work very well for them when the junk science in their script is debunked.

 

[rothenbj]

If every time an ANTZ started talking about the FDA test results we responded with "Hey, thanks for bringing that up!" and then went on to show how the FDA testing is a great example because it proves conclusively how safe electronic cigarettes really are... then I suspect the ANTZ would quickly stop bringing it up.

Every opportunity we get to defang and declaw them should not be missed, because when they have no more fangs and no more claws, they will have no choice but to shut up and get out of our way. And in the end, the only claw I see them having is the tried and true "But what about the children?" crap. But the world is catching on to that one, and I see it losing effectiveness at some point.

I thought the same thing while reviewing the meeting. Oh, before I forget - "Did y'all catch the guy who said "if cigarettes are so bad, why don't you just ban them and stop collecting the taxes?" and "The only deviation from the ALA ACS script was that they've backed down on the FDA "research" related to PV's...enough so that the council said, well if the FDA hasn't found any danger to others then there's no reason to include them in the ordinance." were both highlights of the whole meeting. These changes really are not about SHS protection but just the next step in the "blueprint".

Anyway, back to my initial thought. It would really be nice to have someone waiting to speak AFTER the organized ANTZ give their FDA spiel to throw out the truth about what the study found. If they were hit with that enough, they'd have to back off using three year old dog and pony show bullet points.

 

[TennDave]

I wanted to view the video but after downloading Silverlight, it keeps crashing Chrome, so I can't. OH well, I get the gist of everything here- great going B-ham!!!! All the support you got is amazing. We can keep wining this fight, town by town, city by city, state by state!!

 

[rothenbj]

I wanted to view the video but after downloading Silverlight, it keeps crashing Chrome, so I can't. OH well, I get the gist of everything here- great going B-ham!!!! All the support you got is amazing. We can keep wining this fight, town by town, city by city, state by state!!

I ran it on Chrome and it was fine. As much as I love Chrome when it runs well, I've recently had to spend some time cleaning it up because it was crippling me. It might be just a case of cleaning out cache and history stuff. I did that plus cleaned up all the entries in startup that weren't needed and this netbook again is as good as new.

 

[Thulium]

If CASAA could get enough funding, someday it'd be able to fund defense costs for challenging stupid laws like this. Someone could get a fine and then challenge them in court: "OK government, PROVE that is WHY I was using an e-cigarette in the bar! Prove I was using it to circumvent smoking laws and not just to improve my health by not smoking at all. Then prove that my e-cigarette poses any danger to bystanders AND that you have the right to prohibit me from using it anywhere AND you have the right to expect me to stand outside and put myself in danger by being exposed to the second-hand smoke you consider so dangerous AND the possibility of becoming a crime victim by being out on the street alone because you "guess" that my e-cigarette poses a danger to the folks in the bar (most of whom are probably smokers, including the employees.)"

First they have to prove I was using an e-cigarette at all. With no ash, smoke, butts, or polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons sticking to walls and fabric, there is no physical evidence of use. You say you saw me inhale something--are you sure I wasn't just chewing on my pen? You say you saw me exhale something--are you sure I wasn't just breathing on a cold day or taking a sip of steaming hot coffee? I don't have to prove myself innocent, you have to prove me guilty and you have no physical evidence. Good luck with that.

 

[kristin]

I'm just watching the video now. I love how the ANTZ talk out of both sides of their mouth. The ALA lady gets up and states that all the evidence says indoor smoking bans do not negatively impact businesses in the long run. The ANTZ who gets up right after her says that the ban is great and will be even better once it's statewide, because then people won't cross borders and business won't be lost to other cities where there is no ban. Um...hello??

Christianne - you did AWESOME! Did you get a chance to speak again? I'm only 1/2 way through but haven't heard anything about the FDA "research" yet.

 

[kristin]

Former American Cancer Society guy lie: "Clean indoor air laws do two things. One, they clearly reduce the number of smokers...we have large percentage of people that quit because...of the Act...."

WRONG: Does the introduction of comprehensive smoke-free legislation lead to a decrease in population smoking prevalence? - Bajoga - 2011 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library

And then he suggests that the fleeting moment that people are exposed to second-hand smoke OUTSIDE actually poses a health risk to them.

 

[kristin]

I liked the (non-smoking) president's comments about the FDA lack of research. "Well, if there's no research then there's no reason they should be excluded [ie. not allowed] either. So that goes both ways."

Love it.

 

[DC2]

Apparently the elected officials in Birmingham Alabama are far smarter than the elected officials in Indianapolis Indiana.
Sorry, but yeah, I am so ...... off at those douchepockets in Indiana.

 

[CES]

I liked the (non-smoking) president's comments about the FDA lack of research. "Well, if there's no research then there's no reason they should be excluded [ie. not allowed] either. So that goes both ways."

Love it.

that was pretty cool. He actually didn't want to vote on the ordinance but to take it back and discuss it more. He approached me after i spokee to get my card so they they could bring me in to answer more questions- since he hadn't realized that e-cigs were included in the ordinance. But then they went ahead and amended it then and there.

Kudos to those of you who actually watched the entire hearing. I sat through it but don't think i could have watched it if i didn't have to

Apparently the elected officials in Birmingham Alabama are far smarter than the elected officials in Indianapolis Indiana.
Sorry, but yeah, I am so ...... off at those douchepockets in Indiana.

now THAT is something you don't hear every day around here

I think there are a few things that helped, they were looking for a couple of bones to toss to the bar owners, since the technology committee had been given data on the economic consequences of a ban, the amended ordinance was posted less than 24 hours before the meeting (and it appeared that none of the council members had actually read the amended version- they had to explain to one council member what a hookah is, and had trouble finding the language that still referred to e-cigs). Better yet, a friend of one of the council members vapes.

It also turns out that the guy who spoke about banning cigs and not collecting the taxes is the assistant of another council member. That councilperson was opposed to the ordinance in general, but then still ended up voting for it.

Oh, BTW, CASAA will be getting another donation from me next payday. So much of the hard information that i gave to the city council (and have sent to state legislators) was easily available because of the work of CASAA.