Sellers offer liability insurance...huh? ASH PR

[ladyraj]

When dutifully checking out my favorite target for ire I came across a PR release from ASH not only taking credit for Brazil's ban on e-cigs but...

"In a related development, more e-cigarette wholesalers are finding it necessary to provide product liability insurance to their retail customers, and at least one insurance company is offering its own policies. The company explains the need for such insurance this way: "This device has not been approved by the FDA as a 'stop smoking aid' product. In fact, the FDA has issued a warning about the product (e-cigarettes) because marketers are presenting the e-cigarette as a healthier alternative to regular cigarettes. In addition, the cartridge contains several chemicals including nicotine that are hazardous to your health."

Say again??? Anybody heard of this? No links or names are mentioned.

There's more of what we can expect from this group penned, as usual, by the self-appointed protector of all things related to nicotine...Banzhaf.

E-Cigarette Bans Growing // Sellers Seek Liability Insurance

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I have to give him credit. I have NEVER seen anyone twist the truth, not include ANY back-up for his claims, and not have to get FDA approval for doing so.

It's amazing.

 

[sherid]

I have to give him credit. I have NEVER seen anyone twist the truth, not include ANY back-up for his claims, and not have to get FDA approval for doing so.

It's amazing.

He is growing desperate with the thought of seeing people LOOK like they are smoking being socially acceptable. It mucks up the denormalization campaign.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Agreed Sheri.

Hey LadyRaj - Ok... so my first thought was "Where in the world did he come up with this liability insurance crap?!?"

Found it I think... Is this his his next fist fight with Ashtray Blog: An Electronic Cigarette Blog.: Electronic Cigarette Wholesale

EDIT: In doing a simple search for liability insurance for electronic cigarettes on google... I found no insurance company that actually states the things he states in this press release. God I wish he would put links to things if they are in fact true!

EDIT2: The only other company I can find that sells ecigs that boasts liability insurance is Gamucci.

EDIT3: When you search "This device has not been approved by the FDA as a 'stop smoking aid' product. In fact, the FDA has issued a warning about the product (e-cigarettes)" The only thing that comes up is the press release. Go figure. I think he made this up! Seriously! This would BE on a website if it was true!

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Lacey--anyone that sells a product usually has Products Liabitlty Insurance ---if they do not, they leave themselfs wide open to litigation should someone get hurt by the product.


Sun

No... I know this...

In regards to the author and his information:

As the Beastie Boys once said: "Where you get your information from huh?" He He.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I would actually like to see a Products Liability Insurance Policy issued here in the US to a Supplier that is actually going to pay on a claim arising out of a product that the FDA claims is not legal. That would be the first stance the insurance carrier would take should someone get hurt by and e-cig.


Sun

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I would love to see any insurance policies actually pay on claims in this day and age.

Totally off topic... but for those who roll through here and now have the BB stuck in their heads: he he. Have a good day!

YouTube - "So What'cha Want"

 

[markarich159]

I would actually like to see a Products Liability Insurance Policy issued here in the US to a Supplier that is actually going to pay on a claim arising out of a product that the FDA claims is not legal. That would be the first stance the insurance carrier would take should someone get hurt by and e-cig.


Sun

Thank you for this observation Sun. I was thinking about this the other day. I'm, among other things, a part owner of a Credit Bureau and we have a $500,000 liability policy(even though the max we could be sued per claim via the FDCPA and FCRA is $5,000) but we're required to carry it and we would be suicidal not to in today litigious society. I was wondering does any e-cig supplier actually carry any form of liability insurance that you know of? I would doubt it since, as you say, the US legal standing of e-cig industry would prevent any insurance carrier from writing a policy. Can any supplier comment on this? Have any suppliers actually tried to obtain liability insurance? If so, what was the response?

 

[larcat]

If you have a business, and that business offers a product or service to the public, you have liability insurance. If that insurance is product insurance or what is rather immaterial.

Him pointing this out is like say PEOPLE WHO SELL BOOKS SELL PAPER!!!!

-Larcat

 

[larcat]

He is growing desperate with the thought of seeing people LOOK like they are smoking being socially acceptable. It mucks up the denormalization campaign.

Bingo. I'm going to reiterate that Banzaf is a bigot here.

EVERY concerted effort to demonize a group throughout history involves attacking them aesthetically in some way. See -- Nazi propoganda, Brith of a Nation, etc etc etc.

Thus, the focus on denormalization. Turn the smoker into the "other" and the smoker becomes evil.

-Larcat

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Thank you for this observation Sun. I was thinking about this the other day. I'm, among other things, a part owner of a Credit Bureau and we have a $500,000 liability policy(even though the max we could be sued per claim via the FDCPA and FCRA is $5,000) but we're required to carry it and we would be suicidal not to in today litigious society. I was wondering does any e-cig supplier actually carry any form of liability insurance that you know of? I would doubt it since, as you say, the US legal standing of e-cig industry would prevent any insurance carrier from writing a policy. Can any supplier comment on this? Have any suppliers actually tried to obtain liability insurance? If so, what was the response?

I very much doubt it Markarich, and if you can find one, it was some insurance broker that sold it and did not fill the paperwork out correctly as there is no way any insurance company is going to pay a claim on any e-cig related liability, when the e-cig is not considered a legal product by the FDA.

Sun

 

[unknwn]

-If- insurance is indeed existant in this industry, it likely has sole intention as coverage pertaining to a disasterous occurrence such as fire, or maybe failure of performance (business practices, ect.).
Although a policy carrier would suspect themself covered against all contingency, you can bet that the insurer has protected themself in the event of catastrophic health consequences of the end user. No one who is peddling this stuff would/ could still be in this business if they are paying for an insurance policy that takes all the possible avenues of liability for such products that we are currently using, especially in the present regulatory (or lack there-of) enviroment.
The needed policy could only be prohibitively expensive.
For someone who is in this business that will counter with "of course i'm insured", I contend that a meeting with your underwriter to discuss coverage frankly, will result in unwelcome repercussions.
I personally found the circumstance too dicey to further entertain my initial thoughts about possibly entering this industry as a supplier to end-users.

Once I spent a half dozen hours investigating lithium-ion battery technology I determined that there is altogether too much exposure associated with these items in the hands of untrained individuals, not to mention dumb-asses!

That last statement is only a single aspect of this group of products that is likely not being addressed adequately, when we consider adverse health consequences we have yet an even bigger 6-headed animal.

I'm really not looking to rain on anyone's parade, but the base argument of this titled forum post may be "the straw that broke the camel's back".

 

[dragonpuff]

I'm certain Banzhaf made up large chunks of this article out of thin air. He made references to several companies and people, "one insurance company," "a national TV news program," "more e-cigarette wholesalers," and yet he refused to NAME any of the companies or people he was referring to and included NO references whatsoever. Even a high school kid knows that references must be included or your article will be viewed as just an opinion.

It looks to me like this guy's desperately grasping at straws to hold onto his funding from Pfizer. He knows he doesn't have much to go on anymore so he's taken to making things up.

 

[dragonpuff]

Oh, and i find it interesting that he quotes himself in the third person at the end of the article especially since that is the only person he quoted whom he actually referenced

 

[markarich159]

If you have a business, and that business offers a product or service to the public, you have liability insurance. If that insurance is product insurance or what is rather immaterial.

Him pointing this out is like say PEOPLE WHO SELL BOOKS SELL PAPER!!!!

-Larcat

If your refering to my previous post, I was asking the Moderator Sun if he was aware of any E-cig suppliers who carry liabilty insurance. Just because one owns a business doesn't necessarily mean that they took the required steps to obtain the proper insurance. If you have any specific knowledge about e-cig suppliers who have obtained insurance or what insurance companies offer such policies, could you please reference this. Just because you have a business doesn't implicitly mean you have insurance- it's absolutely not like saying PEOPLE WHO SELL BOOKS SELL PAPER. The business owner has to take steps to obtain(buy) the proper policy.

 

[markarich159]

I very much doubt it Markarich, and if you can find one, it was some insurance broker that sold it and did not fill the paperwork out correctly as there is no way any insurance company is going to pay a claim on any e-cig related liability, when the e-cig is not considered a legal product by the FDA.

Sun

Thank you for your response Sun. I was thinking the same thing. I don't know about you, but I feel this is an extremely touchy issue for e-cig vendors. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my e-cig vendors and, at this point, could not live without them, but we're talking a pretty precarious situation here. To sell a product through intra/interstate commerce without liability insurance sounds, to me, tantamount, to playing russian roulette with a 6 shooter filled with 5 bullets. You're eventually, sooner then later, going to lose. One lawsuit and the attorney fee's alone are going to bankrupt you. Any thoughts on how vendors could possibly protect themselves.

 

[markarich159]

I'm really not looking to rain on anyone's parade, but the base argument of this titled forum post may be "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Whoever you are, I totally agree. Liabilty insurance(that actually covers claims) is a requirement.

 

[unknwn]

"Whoever you are, I totally agree. Liabilty insurance(that actually covers claims) is a requirement."

"whoever" is me. "unknwn" is a moniker that I came up with in the early days of the 'net, and I found it pretty easy to aquire just about everywhere i've been going to since. So, "unknwn" is just another unique screen name.
Nothing ominus or suspicious about me.

About the insurance topic, I am truly surprised that it hasn't been brought up and discussed before now.
It has got to be mighty frightening to many folks.
One thing for sure, some company on the far side of the Pacific isn't likely going to be standing next to an unfortunate litigant when the hammer drops. And even IF you could drag them onto that "slow boat from China" to any kind of hearing, they will never suffer anywhere near to the degree that the bloke on the wrong side of a suit in this country will face.

Too damn much uncertainty in this whole shebang for me to want to get involved.

Just a bit of advice to whoever will listen- COA (cover your ... )

 

[BigJimW]

I'm certain Banzhaf made up large chunks of this article out of thin air. He made references to several companies and people, "one insurance company," "a national TV news program," "more e-cigarette wholesalers," and yet he refused to NAME any of the companies or people he was referring to and included NO references whatsoever. Even a high school kid knows that references must be included or your article will be viewed as just an opinion.

It looks to me like this guy's desperately grasping at straws to hold onto his funding from Pfizer. He knows he doesn't have much to go on anymore so he's taken to making things up.

Dr. Seigal pointed out that Banzaf is ruining the credibility of ASH for doing just this. Plus all the outlandish claims he makes just on CIGARETTES alone, never mind the PV.

I'm sitting back watching the destruction of a slimebag lawyer. Eventually he will destroy his credibility and then, bye bye ASH. Looking forward to that day indeed.

 

[markarich159]

One thing for sure, some company on the far side of the Pacific isn't likely going to be standing next to an unfortunate litigant when the hammer drops. And even IF you could drag them onto that "slow boat from China" to any kind of hearing, they will never suffer anywhere near to the degree that the bloke on the wrong side of a suit in this country will face.

(cover your ... )

Several weeks ago there was an article I was reading in some financial journal(I forget which) about how impossible it is to actual collect on any winnings in a lawsuit against a Chinese entity. You can sue them(I'm not sure in what jurisdiction), you can win, you can be awarded an amount by the court, but there is no way you can actually collect on the awarded amount. Which, as you brought up, leaves the uninsured "bloke on the wrong side off the suit" in this country to take the heat.

As I said in my in my previous post, I love my e-cig suppliers, as I'm sure all e-cig users in the USA do. However, I'd be willing to bet the bank that if someone's 510 charger shorted and burnt down their house, there would be quite a quick loss of love. God forbid someone's kid was injured in the house fire. Then add the possibilty of the homeowner's policy denying to pay the fire claim based on the fact the investigation showed the fire's cause to be linked to a non UL listed e-cig charger. Or even something as simple as someone's dog Fifi dying after getting into the trash and chewing down a discarded Nicotine cartridge filled with Roast beef flavored eliquid from Deacadent Vapour. To me it's inconceivable putting yourself and your business in that position of risk without liability insurance.