FDA Sen Johnson (R-Wis) demands answers from FDA RE deeming

[DC2]

That and Transparency.

Transparency is one of the most important things a government can do.

It's also one of the main things they avoid like the plague.
Which is why it pretty much mostly doesn't exist anywhere in the world.

Can't have anyone actually seeing how this whole thing works.
Can't have anyone seeing how government "business" really gets done.

We had a Grand Experiment here in this country once upon a time.
We tried to give the governing of the people right straight to the people.

The "government" has slowly stolen it back again.
And that is in large part our fault for letting them.

We HAD the mechanisms in place to prevent this, to stop this.
It's called the Constitution.
Or at least it was.


I'd say all of this was inevitable, but I'll simply digress at this point.

There was a time when America was a Grand Experiment...
Why is the US the Grand Experiment

But we were given plenty of warning by smart people about what we need to watch out for...
Freedom Quotes at BrainyQuote

America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
--Abraham Lincoln

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led...
Like sheep to the slaughter.
--George Washington

Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.
--Pope John Paul II

Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
--George Orwell

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
--Patrick Henry

Freedom is the oxygen of the soul.
--Moshe Dayan

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream.
It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
--Ronald Reagan

 

[Kent C]

The Most Transparent Administration in History

 

[zoiDman]

Transparency is one of the most important things a government can do.

It's also one of the main things they avoid like the plague.
Which is why it pretty much mostly doesn't exist anywhere in the world.

Can't have anyone actually seeing how this whole thing works.
Can't have anyone seeing how government "business" really gets done.

We had a Grand Experiment here in this country once upon a time.
We tried to give the governing of the people right straight to the people.

The "government" has slowly stolen it back again.
And that is in large part our fault for letting them.

We HAD the mechanisms in place to prevent this, to stop this.
It's called the Constitution.
Or at least it was.


I'd say all of this was inevitable, but I'll simply digress at this point.

There was a time when America was a Grand Experiment...
Why is the US the Grand Experiment

But we were given plenty of warning by smart people about what we need to watch out for...
Freedom Quotes at BrainyQuote

America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
--Abraham Lincoln

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led...
Like sheep to the slaughter.
--George Washington

Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.
--Pope John Paul II

Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
--George Orwell

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
--Patrick Henry

Freedom is the oxygen of the soul.
--Moshe Dayan

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream.
It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
--Ronald Reagan

Yeah.. Lots of Problems in this Country with regards to Transparency and Accountability.

But as you saw First Hand when you went around to all those B&M's in your area, it is Much Easier to Talk about Things than it is to Get People to Stand Up and to Do Something About It.

The Media could have a Huge Effect in all this. But the Media (on Average) is More Concerned with Selling Advertising Dollars than with Anything Else.

 

[skoony]

Not talk'n about So-Called Transparency Mike. Talking about Real Transparency.

Nothing against you but,there is no such thing as real transparency.
Even if such thing was possible it would be undesirable and on the face
of it is unreasonable.

People for the most part simply do not go around with the intentions
of harming other individuals. Those that do are criminals and should
be treated as such.

In the normal course of events things do work themselves out with out.
Transparency has nothing to do with anything. business which is actually
people in business has the same right to expect privacy as any individual
has.

So called transparency is the individual equivalent of the FDA's reasoning
for the deeming regs and works on the same basis. It is a control measure
designed to promote agenda's.

I am not saying no one should be taken to account. I am saying words or
idea's such as transparency are worthless at best and,down right dangerous at worst.
IMHO the call for transparency is used for unfounded smear campaigns then for
any real harm being caused and as such I will not use the term at all.

Like I said that's my take on it and,is no reflection on you. In my book it rates
right up there with ' the customer is always right'. After 30 years part time in
the service related industry I can tell you this is true about 2% of the time.

regards
Mike

 

[DC2]

But the Media (on Average) is More Concerned with Selling Advertising Dollars than with Anything Else.

I'd like to believe it was that simple.
Because I have more nefarious concepts that I entertain.

Let's not forget that a few billionaires own nearly all media outlets.
They control who is fed what.

 

[DC2]

Nothing against you but,there is no such thing as real transparency.
Even if such thing was possible it would be undesirable and on the face
of it is unreasonable.

People for the most part simply do not go around with the intentions
of harming other individuals. Those that do are criminals and should
be treated as such.

In the normal course of events things do work themselves out with out.
Transparency has nothing to do with anything. business which is actually
people in business has the same right to expect privacy as any individual
has.

But he was talking about government, not business.

And when the government takes our money for the purpose of "helping" us...
They need to be transparent in what they do, how they do it, and how much it costs...

There is no excuse for a government that is not transparent.
Not now and not ever.

But none of them ever are.
So yeah.

 

[zoiDman]

Nothing against you but,there is no such thing as real transparency.
Even if such thing was possible it would be undesirable and on the face
of it is unreasonable.

People for the most part simply do not go around with the intentions
of harming other individuals. Those that do are criminals and should
be treated as such.

In the normal course of events things do work themselves out with out.
Transparency has nothing to do with anything. business which is actually
people in business has the same right to expect privacy as any individual
has.

So called transparency is the individual equivalent of the FDA's reasoning
for the deeming regs and works on the same basis. It is a control measure
designed to promote agenda's.

I am not saying no one should be taken to account. I am saying words or
idea's such as transparency are worthless at best and,down right dangerous at worst.
IMHO the call for transparency is used for unfounded smear campaigns then for
any real harm being caused and as such I will not use the term at all.

Like I said that's my take on it and,is no reflection on you. In my book it rates
right up there with ' the customer is always right'. After 30 years part time in
the service related industry I can tell you this is true about 2% of the time.

regards
Mike

I think we are on Two Different Pages Mike.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

As you have probably heard me say before, my Father was in local government most of his life. He fought for fairness and was squashed at just about every turn. Back room deals by those whom hold the true power are where it's at. There is nothing transparent about government at the true power level. Power brings about corruption and if one refuses that corruption then power is taken from them.

 

[DC2]

As you have probably heard me say before, my Father was in local government most of his life. He fought for fairness and was squashed at just about every turn. Back room deals by those whom hold the true power are where it's at. There is nothing transparent about government at the true power level. Power brings about corruption and if one refuses that corruption then power is taken from them.

This is all that needs to be said, and everything that needs to be said.
People need to read what you just said, and understand it to it's very core.

It is the eternal truth of mankind.
Always has been, and always will be.

I too have looked into government as a way to do what is right.
As a way to fix what is wrong.

Yes, you may call me naive if you wish.
Because I most certainly was.


That's why this form of government was considered a "Grand Experiment" many years ago.
It has failed, in the same way all other forms of government fail, and for the same reasons.

And those reasons are EXACTLY what you just said.

That is why I'm for term limits.
It may not be a panacea, but it's a start.

 

[skoony]

But he was talking about government, not business.

I think we are on Two Different Pages Mike.

It does not mater. business,government,individuals?

What makes You or,me think transparency will uncover willful wrong
doing?

OK,here you go this is what we did. Seems legit.

Regards
Mike

 

[zoiDman]

It does not mater. business,government,individuals?

...

O... K....

 

[skoony]

O... K....

Just out of curiosity what makes you think transparency isn't nothing
but another buzz word to jerk people or institutions around?

IMHO transparency is just another catch phrase to justify all
manner of intrusion into the every day course of things.

Regards
Mike

 

[zoiDman]

Just out of curiosity what makes you think transparency isn't nothing
but another buzz word to jerk people or institutions around?

IMHO transparency is just another catch phrase to justify all
manner of intrusion into the every day course of things.

Regards
Mike

Whatever you say Mike.

If you think there is No Need for More Transparency in Government, not much more to Talk About.

 

[nomore stinkies]

I was part of a very large group to have term limits reinstated in Illinois. We gathered 500k signatures. The courts took us down and it was off the table for 2014. I lost all confidence in government. These politicians do not care what we think. Period.
Words used to have meaning behind them. Transparency? They have redefined that word where we the people can't even recognize it. I don't think the American people even exist in their minds. We are becoming apathetic to their lies and THAT is when we go down as a country. Were the FDA's deeming transparent, cohesive, scientific? No. They had an agenda that included politics, lobbyists and the media. We got swept under....would any rational non-politicized person agree that a piece of metal is a tobacco product? Seriously. My god. Might be a little off topic but are these idiots on TV adults? Ugh

 

[skoony]

If you think there is No Need for More Transparency in Government, not much more to Talk About.

Transparency has no meaning as wrong doers do not air their dirty
laundry where it can be found. On the other hand many (not all) bandy
the phrase around as if they were playing badminton. Some think
calling for "transparency" will solve any and all things they seek answers
for with out the necessary effort on their part to think or take responsibility
for themselves. We have seen this here when it concerns issues of harm.
Some require vendors to prove lack of harm when there is no indication
of harm in the first place. Failure to do so is considered a lack of transparency.
What on Earth does that mean? How is a vendor supposed to meet this
criteria at the individual level? most importantly who gets to decide how
transparent one needs to be and why?(with out an agenda)

One mans transparency is another mans curtain. Sounds good on paper,
very difficult to define in practice.
Just my two cents,
Regards
Mike

 

[Vandal]

Privacy for individuals and transparency for government. Is that not how it ought to work? The government should be serving at the pleasure of the people, not the other way around.

 

[zoiDman]

...
Some require vendors to prove lack of harm when there is no indication
of harm in the first place. Failure to do so is considered a lack of transparency.
...

Now I think we are on 3 Different Pages.

 

[Lessifer]

Now I think we are on 3 Different Pages.

I think maybe what skoony is getting at is that transparency in government means they're showing you what they want you to see. If they tell you they're being transparent, they've just found a better way of hiding what they're really doing.

 

[zoiDman]

I think maybe what skoony is getting at is that transparency in government means they're showing you what they want you to see. If they tell you they're being transparent, they've just found a better way of hiding what they're really doing.

I believe I Mentioned that in the very beginning with post #560.

And I don't leave it up to Them to tell me what is "Transparency". The People, who Governments are Supposed to Serve, are the one's who should Define what Transparency is.

And I'm not sure why Mike keeps referencing Individuals and Businesses in replies to Anything I have written regarding "Transparency"? Because the Only context of Transparency I have post has been in regards to Government(s) and or Government(s) Agencies.

 

[Lessifer]

And I'm not sure why Mike keeps referencing Individuals and Businesses in replies to Anything I have written regarding "Transparency"? Because the Only context of Transparency I have post has been in regards to Government(s) and or Government(s) Agencies.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that either, I think he just doesn't like the word.

My thoughts are, transparency in government is good, but you'll never achieve true transparency. You'll always need someone on the inside willing to bring to light what they don't want you to know.