Shut down @ 'The Rendevous' west MI

Status
Not open for further replies.

tanzmitpalmer

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 30, 2013
135
182
Kentucky
What blows my mind the most is that the chew-bottle is okay and vaping is not. On the gag-o-meter scale it's not even close. Blechhhhh!

If it was my establishment (of any sort - restaurant, store, dry-cleaner, office, whatever) even when I was still a smoker, I would ask the bottle toter to take it outside before I'd ask the person vaping.

Gotta go wash out my mind's eye with some bleach now....

It took everything I had not to barf on my register when I saw a customer come up with a spit cup. It had so much juice in it. So very, very much. And he had it setting in the cart. With all the clothes he was buying. Clothes. Juice. Spit. Slobber. Him touching all the things.

He was a fairly friendly fellow once I started talking to him, but still... all the absorbent fabrics...
 

mkbilbo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 4, 2013
2,294
2,874
Austin, TX
www.thesmilingwolf.com
Emitting vapor is included in definitions of the word smoking, so technically, vaping can be considered smoking. I don't see it that way, though.

What is the name of this section of the forum?

And I don't agree with the section name either. For that matter, the name of the entire website.

(Please tell the mods to stop looking at me that way. They're scaring me.)

Anyway, that's sideways to my point. Context is everything. "No smoking" is referring quite clearly to the combustion of tobacco. The "emit visible vapor" to which you refer has to do with what is called the "smoke point" of oils in cooking. That's not really combustion. If oil actually combusts in your kitchen, you need to grab a fire extinguisher or run. Actual smoke form burning oil is something else all together and Very Much Not Good.

Notice, for instance, nobody says, "the tea kettle is smoking". Even though it admits visible vapor. You don't read recipes that say, "boil the water until it smokes" even though it emits visible vapor. Vaping is much more akin to boiling water than burning tobacco.

(By the way, splitting hairs is a hobby of mine. Also, had Katrina never happened, I would probably be working on my Ph.D. in anthropological linguistics about now. Before the disaster, I was bailing on computers and trying to move to my true love: language. Then... well... stuff happened. Anyway, fair warning, I can talk language so long, there is a risk of coma to the listener. There has been talk of tattooing a warning label on me.)

Point being, that connotation of "smoking" doesn't even begin to approach vaping in any way, shape or form. And "no smoking" signs are clearly aimed at the burning of tobacco. As in the case of the OP, the restaurant found "chewing" to be acceptable. That's using a tobacco product but not burning it. They, themselves, did not see the "no smoking" sign applying to that use of tobacco.

Applying "smoking" terms of just about any kind to vaping is an artifact of it's creation for and adoption by smokers. We just carry the existing terminology over instead inventing a whole new vocabulary (though that is in progress also, just ask any newbie over in "New Members" how confusing we are at first :) ).

The actual laws behind smoking bans do not, yet in most all cases, address vaping in the least. If you're rich and want to fight, you could probably beat a citation for smoking in a "no smoking" area. In this context, "smoking" has a fairly clear meaning involving burning tobacco.

Now, a private business can--within the confines of law--create and enforce pretty much any rules they want. It may, however, not be bright on their part on the economics side of things however. A restaurant that allowed chewing and spitting? I ain't goin'. I've always found that to be a pretty vile habit. It's a bit bone headed on their part to allow that over vaping.

Though the food service business isn't exactly filled with legal scholars. They see smoke looking stuff come out of a person, they think "smoking". And with the prevailing legal atmosphere of smoking being banned so much, I'm not surprised some would overreact. Or call it "err on the side of caution" if you feel generous.

(Still, ultimately, the OP had every right to "vote" with his money and go elsewhere. That is supposedly our system of "capitalism".)
 

mkbilbo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 4, 2013
2,294
2,874
Austin, TX
www.thesmilingwolf.com
(The voices in my head assure me that since I issued a disclaimer, should any readers who attempt wading through the above who have ill effects such as losing consciousness, permanent "crossed eyes", or go hoarse from shouting, "DO YOU EVER SHUT UP????" cannot sue me for damages. In legal terms: neener!)
 

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,318
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
Emitting vapor is included in definitions of the word smoking, so technically, vaping can be considered smoking. I don't see it that way, though.
What is the name of this section of the forum?

Dude.

Scientifically, medically, and legally vaping is NOT smoking. You're hurting the whole vaping thing.

Smoking (particularly in this context) has ALWAYS meant burning tobacco or other substances. There is no combustion with e-cigs. No carbon dioxide nor carbon monoxide. No ash. Sure, smoke contains vapor. But vapor is not smoke in and of itself. And the vapor we inhale is really a condensate formed after vaporization results in condensation of the vapor into small droplets. It's a fog.
 
Last edited:

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
Dude.

Scientifically, medically, and legally vaping is NOT smoking. You're hurting the whole vaping thing.

Smoking (particularly in this context) has ALWAYS meant burning tobacco or other substances. There is no combustion with e-cigs. No carbon dioxide nor carbon monoxide. No ash. Sure, smoke contains vapor. But vapor is not smoke in and of itself. And the vapor we inhale is really a condensate formed after vaporization results in condensation of the vapor into small droplets. It's a fog.

Legally it will be, when it is classified as a tobacco product, which is is, unless someone can figure out how to extract nicotine from corn at an affordable price.

I was just using a definition from an accepted source- the Ofxord dictionary, to make my argument.
 

SissySpike

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 1, 2012
6,926
12,310
San Diego CA
Legally it will be, when it is classified as a tobacco product, which is is, unless someone can figure out how to extract nicotine from corn at an affordable price.

I was just using a definition from an accepted source- the Ofxord dictionary, to make my argument.

This is the failure of our legal system. It has been perverted to a infective mess that dose very little good anymore.
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
This is the failure of our legal system. It has been perverted to a infective mess that dose very little good anymore.

Yes. Our laws contain specific language and terms to suit their purpose, whether the terms in question have a generally accepted meaning or not.

The real issue is that we have become a nanny state- like much of Europe.
 

Kweb

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 16, 2012
137
81
Chicagoland
Yes. Our laws contain specific language and terms to suit their purpose, whether the terms in question have a generally accepted meaning or not.

The real issue is that we have become a nanny state- like much of Europe.

I disagree. My perception, when I was in Europe, was that Europeans are much more accepting of others. The good old US of A is all about conformity. Always has been.
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
I disagree. My perception, when I was in Europe, was that Europeans are much more accepting of others. The good old US of A is all about conformity. Always has been.

How long ago was that? Can you smoke a cigarette in a pub in an EU member nation, other than in CZ?
Socialism has long been about control of the population by the state. That is what most of Europe has become, and what is happening in the US.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread