Slim Chargers revisited

[Morandir835]

Already have posted a lot of info on the slim chargers, but never really touched on the most important aspect. The off load start voltage. This is a very important number, but very much overlooked as well. When it comes to Lithium-Ion batts of all types overcharging them seriously hurts the cell. In the case of a 3.7v batt, anything over 4.2v is going to hurt the batt long term. This where what kind of LIB cell comes into play. I'm going to use my other items batts as an example...

There are two types of batts that it can use, one is an unprotected high drain imr batt the other a protected LIB batt. Using the trustfire charger the protected batt will come off at 4.21v +/- 0.01v hot off the charger, the imr batt 4.25 +/- 0.1v. While this extra voltage gives you slightly more run time out of the batt, it also will potentially lead to a shorter lifespan of the imr. Using a pila charger (which is the highest quality charger for LIB I've come accross) the same two batts will come off at 4.18 +/- 0.1v for the protected batt, and 4.22 +/- 0.1v for the imr. Which leads us to the V4L batts and chargers.

I took four batts and did 10 charging cycles of each using the 3 different chargers. 2 of them are from the vapor king line (one manual, one auto), and 2 are from the new line (one stealth, one king diamond). As soon as the light turned green or blue (depending on the charger) took them off and tested them without load (no carto) to see what voltage they were at.

Vapor king auto shorty:
Wall charger (WC)- 4.23 avg. Highest I saw was 4.24, lowest 4.22.
USB charger- 4.24 avg. Lowest was 4.23, highest 4.25.
Slim line (SL)- 4.18 avg. Lowest was 4.16, highest was 4.20.

Manual regular vapor king:
WC- 4.21 avg. Highest was 4.23, lowest 4.20
USB- 4.23 avg. Highest was 4.25, lowest 4.21
SL- 4.18avg. Highest was 4.19, lowest 4.16

King diamond Shorty:
WC- 4.25 avg. Lowest was 4.24, highest 4.26
USB- 4.26 avg. Lowest was 4.24, highest was 4.27
SL- 4.22 avg. Highest was 4.23, lowest was 4.20

Stealth regular:
WC- 4.25 avg. Lowest was 4.23, highest was 4.26
USB- 4.26avg. Highest again was 4.27, lowest was 4.25
SL- 4.21 avg. Highest was 4.23, lowest 4.20

What this tells me is the newer batts use a lower internal resistance batt (which also explains why they hold their voltage longer than any previous batts on the market). Would highly suggest if you want as long of a lifespan as possible from your king diamond and stealth series batts using the slim line charger. Currently working on another set of complete life cycle tests using two fresh king diamond batts and the slim charger to see just how many more cycles you can expect from using the SL charger exclusively. Will be a bit before those numbers are posted (those tests take a few months, do apologize). Hope someone finds this useful.

 

[dohsma]

Awesome info Morandir, it is much as I suspected... but you knew that already

 

[SnowDragon]

Unregulated batts rock!!!! Excellent stuff Morandir and I must say the numbers off the USB come as a total surprise. Thank you so much for this testing...the proof is in the numbers. Short batteries never get the respect they deserve!

 

[Clover~]

thanks for your time and effort, mordy! its greatly appreciated. This is great info!

 

[wader2k]

Very Cool! Much appreciated M'Dir!!!!

 

[Morandir835]

No problem at all everyone. Can't wait to see if a king diamond will last 400+ charges with no deep cycling and the slim charger. Based on the previous info, it's very possible.

 

[plantlvr]

I got a new black slim charger as the 'gift' on my order a little while ago. Unfortunatly it doesn't work Is there anything I can do to it? I plugged it into different outlets but the light doesn't come on. TIA

 

[Morandir835]

Ms. Plantlvr have a couple of suggestions. Try plugging it in without any battery and waiting 5 seconds. If that doesn't work, try plugging it in for 5 seconds with a battery screwed in, if no light appears, then unplug it, flip it over and repeat. If that doesn't work after the 3rd try, would fill out a service ticket.

 

[keelalagirl55]

excellent info Morandir hon!!!! Thank you for doing this....very helpful (((hug)))

 

[Morandir835]

Glad to be of service Ms. Keelalagirl. I've pretty much stopped using the wall and usb chargers all together. Just hope that they transfer over the same technology of the SL's to the usb soon, still have one in my stash carrying kit for emergencies.

 

[plantlvr]

Ms. Plantlvr have a couple of suggestions. Try plugging it in without any battery and waiting 5 seconds. If that doesn't work, try plugging it in for 5 seconds with a battery screwed in, if no light appears, then unplug it, flip it over and repeat. If that doesn't work after the 3rd try, would fill out a service ticket.

YAY it works now! Thanx Morandir! It was weird, it wouldn't light up after 5 seconds but when I pulled it out the green light would come on for a half a second. When I tried the third time with the batt in it, it worked How didja get so smart ?

 

[Morandir835]

Glad it worked for you Ms. Plantlvr. Don't think it's smart so much as persistent. If something doesn't want to work, will do everything possible to find a way to make it work. Then whatever fix I can come up with gets passed on to everyone here.

 

[plantlvr]

Glad it worked for you Ms. Plantlvr. Don't think it's smart so much as persistent. If something doesn't want to work, will do everything possible to find a way to make it work. Then whatever fix I can come up with gets passed on to everyone here.

I still say you are awesome Sir!

 

[plarkinjr]

You've obviously done a ton of homework here. I'm a systems engineer, not a components engineer, and vaping uses components I'm not familiar with. So I'm a little baffled by some of your terms....

What is an "IMR" battery?

And what is a LIB battery? Lithium Ion Battery battery?

What's a PILA or a Trustfire?

SL = Slim Line (charger), right?

And if I'm understanding your results correctly, the USB (actually a PCC, right?) is marginally worst of all (i.e. the wall charger is marginally better than PCC). In your test, did you have the PCC attached to USB, or charging solely from its internal battery? Did it make a difference?

P.S. while typing this, I had my regular-length single-logo auto batt on my PCC , and the "ready" light on the PCC was blinking.... then it went steady red for a few minutes, then back to blinking for a few mins, then back to steady red. And the KR808's LED sometimes blinks 8 times. What does all of that mean? Does the PCC have a "float charge" routine or something?

I also noticed that the internal batt LED on the PCC is usually green while plugged into my USB hub with no load, but after I put a KR808 on it to charge it turns red. That seems odd to me: the KR808 should draw less than the USB is providing the PCC. No?

 

[Morandir835]

I'm a bigmouthed idiot Plarkinjr sir, what else is there to say.

An IMR batt is a high drain LIB batt, they are LI-Mn technically. They are unprotected, but use a safer chemistry, and are designed for high drain applications. They carry a very high c rating meaning they can pull more current then their fellow LIB. A 1600mah batt with a 14c rating can pull 22.4amps of power. Compare that to a 2500mah batt with a 3 c rating it can only pull 7.5amps of power.

Lithim Ion Battery

As stated in the orginal post Slim Line (SL).

The USB and PCC are two different items. The pcc uses a nimhi battery to charge the batts, haven't done a lot of research on them because I don't use one very often. The USB charger is potentially the most harmful to the batts, yes.

Hopefully someone more familiar with the PCC will be by to help you sir with the PCC.....

 

[Morandir835]

Sorry for the double post, but editing on mobile is a pita.

The pila charger and trustfire charger are two types of chargers for larger LIB batts. Pila is the company that makes the pila charger and it's built to the highest standards.

 

[Cat_in_the_Playground]

Thank you for your ever faithful service Morandir.

I'm most interested in this style charger because my cat can't chew it up. I have PITA kitty that has PICA (my pic to the left). She's darn cute, but her teeth are destructive as all get out. She will chew almost anything, but she prefers paper and cardboard products (she has eaten not just the dust jacket from a book, but the actual hard back binding of a book itself) and wires. Her most favorite focus of her PICA is wires - especially thin ones (like those found on the USB charger). I can't tell you how many chargers my neighbor has over at his house to solder back together for me (I've kinda given up hope at this point. He's had them for probably 4 months now). So, while the slim charger costs almost double the USB charger, I think it will save me money in the long run. If I had purchased half the number of slim chargers over the months instead of the USB chargers, I would still have those chargers functioning in my house today (rather than in pieces at my neighbors). And I wouldn't be ordering yet another charger with my latest order.

And for those that say she needs a diversion, I don't think there is anything that can keep her from her chewing. She has more toys than she will play with (actually, there are only 2 kinds of toys she will play with period). I've read these cats are bored. She has plenty of toys. She has a brother kitty to play with. One suggestion of structured play time doesn't work because she won't play with anything but these two certain toys *if* she feels like it. I've bought her the rawhide chews for little dogs (I thought this would give her something she's allowed to chew up to work on for hours and wouldn't hurt her when she at it. But alas, she didn't like them either. Not enough wires in them, I guess).

So, finally a charger that won't ultimately end up next door in pieces for him to solder back together.

 

[Morandir835]

No problem Ms. Cat_in_the_Playground.

Smeagol is just as destructive when it comes to my wife's stuff. He has destroyed a computer power cord, five usb wires, and a pair of headphones. She has to keep everything with wires where he can't get it....

 

[EleanorR]

Smeagol doesn't have pica, Pablo. He just doesn't like your wife.

 

[Morandir835]

Very true Lady Eleanor. Though her threatening to lose him in the move has made him far more friendly lately...