SM V3 Semovar VS Provari

[rodsky77]

After talking with several DNA20 owners and my own experience with the kick chips, I am under the impression the Nivel is just as sensitive to battery sag as the Evolv chips. add in the overall mod resistance and a few points of sag and that 3.6 battery looks like 3.2 to the chip.

i did notice a good thread cleaning and some noalox type treatment have made it somewhat better. ( i can get some batteries down into the 3.55v range) but after the new year i will be testing different batteries in this and my dna mod to see which ones can give the best times or have better discharge/sag curves.

even when the thread are dirty on my provari I see this same drop point on the same batteries. with more power and accuracy is going to come more demand from the battery and if we can find a higher sustainable discharge curve we may actually end up with a longer run time from a slightly smaller Mah battery

Thank you for your reply Thrasher

I use Efest 18650 2250 mAH batteries in mine. Perhaps the lower mAH AW IMRs will give better results.
Do you know if the AW batteries have a better/steadier discharge curve? Cloud9Vaping does recommend the AW batteries for the Semovar, maybe there's a reason for that - they've stated somewhere on their forums that they've done extensive testing on the Semovar, maybe this is where their recommendation for the AW batteries comes from. I'll get some Noalox and a few AW IMR 18650 batteries to compare to the Efest. Thanks for the recommendation.

The Semovar really is an excellent mod, if anyone is thinking about getting one, and not sure whether it's worth the money, I truly think that it's worth every penny.

 

[Thrasher]

here's the real thing many, including myself until recently, have overlooked.

Now this only refers to regulated mods as mechanicals can use more of the battery longer and there is less overall drain because there is no voltage upstepping etc. so.....

when we use things like this comparator Battery test-review 18650 comparator
we see the 2900 or 2600( or whatever) and go wow look how long they last. but when you realize almost every regulated mod cuts off at 3.2v and then add in a bit of sag and mod resistance/V drop, the time after about 3.5-3.6V becomes worthless because a regulated mod will never get past that 3.2 cutoff zone.

so even though on the chart something like aw 2000 may seem like it is half the time of another battery, the important part is how long can it stay above 3.6v + sag before dropping off that matters.(with that said I still get longer life from other batteries) and this has recently caused me to give more thought to which batteries may actually be the best for what mods I use. when I can afford some more batteries for testing I have a few in mind i am interested in.

 

[rodsky77]

here's the real thing many, including myself until recently, have overlooked.

Now this only refers to regulated mods as mechanicals can use more of the battery longer and there is less overall drain because there is no voltage upstepping etc. so.....

when we use things like this comparator Battery test-review 18650 comparator
we see the 2900 or 2600( or whatever) and go wow look how long they last. but when you realize almost every regulated mod cuts off at 3.2v and then add in a bit of sag and mod resistance/V drop, the time after about 3.5-3.6V becomes worthless because a regulated mod will never get past that 3.2 cutoff zone.

so even though on the chart something like aw 2000 may seem like it is half the time of another battery, the important part is how long can it stay above 3.6v + sag before dropping off that matters.(with that said I still get longer life from other batteries) and this has recently caused me to give more thought to which batteries may actually be the best for what mods I use. when I can afford some more batteries for testing I have a few in mind i am interested in.

Good thought - I guess everyone goes for the higher mAH number - human nature, I suppose - higher/bigger, means better.
Batteries do cost quite a bit of money, especially the more reputable brands, I've spent almost as much on 3 x 18350, 3 x 18490, and 4 x 18650 as I did on my ProVari. Which ones are you planning to try out in your mods? Perhaps we can cut the costs down if I try some and you try some others Cheaper to do research when more people participate using different trial groups

 

[ronpaek100]

Is there any benefit for using the longer lasting mAH batteries from let's say panasonic / orbtronics which are around 3000 mAH vs the AW IMR 2000 mAH on the semovar? I read some posts about drop off point and stuff so i'm a bit confused.

 

[lorderer1973]

IMMO Provape must think about a new mod VV/VW on the future

 

[generic mutant]

I really like the Semovar, and I'll buy a new version they make with a sensible interface.

One button interfaces make absolutely no sense for a device like this. It's just like computer mice - you aren't making things better by simplifying the control surface beyond a certain point. You're just pushing the complexity somewhere else, and making things much less intuitive and efficient.

Good buttons cost money, but not so much that you can't put three of them in a device costing this much.

 

[CommaHolly]

faint.


ten char.

 

[generic mutant]

faint.


ten char.

You mean

faint.


ten char.

[Passes CommaHolly the smelling salts]

 

[ronpaek100]

The Semo is a lovely machine and beautifully engineered. The only fault I have is that battery life is a little low in constant VW mode, but if you use the VW to set to a tank or juice and then switch to VV mode it pretty much sorts that out.

Oh really? I did not know that.. so I should vape the semovar in VW mode??

 

[ronpaek100]

I had a friend ask me how my Semovar was after I got it. All I could say was....smooth. I have an Evic as well as an SVD, and this is something completely different. "Smooth" doesn't even do it justice. It's built so well, has ultra smooth threads and just behaves the way a good PV should. I love it.

I do not us VW, btw, as it (as well as any PV) will suck up your batteries. I like the Semovar in 18350 mode so using VW isn't a good idea.

why does using the device in VW mode drain the battery faster? is that a glitch, is there a new software update to fix this problem?

 

[Ref Minor]

Oh really? I did not know that.. so I should vape the semovar in VW mode??

Up to you, I do both, one tip is that when the battery runs out if you take it out and put it back you get a fair bit more life out of it, I think of it as like a reserve tank.

 

[Ref Minor]

why does using the device in VW mode drain the battery faster? is that a glitch, is there a new software update to fix this problem?

It uses power checking the ohm level whether you are vaping or not. ie the battery runs down slowly if you leave it alone, vv mode only
uses power when you vape so naturally lasts longer. It's not a glitch, just the downside of VW.

 

[ronpaek100]

View attachment 257918
all mods in 18650 mode - from left to right
megatron hybrid
poldiac
provari
semovar
vamo.

The semovar is slightly longer because of the modular design, being able to unscrew the electronics section you also need to have seals and contacts built into that piece which will make it a little longer.

while I agree for the first time expensive mod i would say a provari also. the falures were in the last batch of semi's about 4 months ago and ran around 5% with free replacement if you got one, they instantly stopped production until they figured out what was wrong.

the battery life is slightly shorter but not enough to go wow only half the time of my XXXX device. this is simply the nature of the chip pushing pure regulated DC output. with the PWM mods the battery isnt fired 100% all the time.

I notice about the time the semi shuts off the batteries will still work on the provari, but not for too much longer.. but the voltage of that battery under load on my mech is about where the provari would shut down normally anyways. right around 3.2-3.3 under load or the low side of 3.5 no load in the semi.

It should be noted that also using VW mode in most mods will have shorter life then in vv mod because of the constant recalibration calculations to maintain the wattage. using a high MAH will still last days.

I will never get rid of it becuase of the reliability but my provari sits now, I love this mod.

with regulated VV / VW devices do high drain and max amperages mean nothing? So if i'm using the semovar in 18650 mode if I wanted the longest battery life I should choose a battery with the highest mAH I won't get any better performance vs a lower mAH 18650 battery?

 

[Ref Minor]

Is there any benefit for using the longer lasting mAH batteries from let's say panasonic / orbtronics which are around 3000 mAH vs the AW IMR 2000 mAH on the semovar? I read some posts about drop off point and stuff so i'm a bit confused.

It is possible a lower Mah battery could outperform a higher one, as you say it depends on the drop off rate of the battery and the cut off point of the mod.

 

[CheetahAce]

It uses power checking the ohm level whether you are vaping or not. ie the battery runs down slowly if you leave it alone, vv mode only
uses power when you vape so naturally lasts longer. It's not a glitch, just the downside of VW.

Is that absolutely true? I'm a relative noob and I have a semovar btw. I haven't read that before. Can you explain why a device would need to check ohm's when you're not using it?

 

[SissySpike]

Is that absolutely true? I'm a relative noob and I have a semovar btw. I haven't read that before. Can you explain why a device would need to check ohm's when you're not using it?

Im not sure but its possible. I know the reason VW works like it dose is because it checks the resistance and adjusts accordingly to your setting vs VV where you set the voltage. I use everything in VV setting.

 

[Thrasher]

there was a chart on a german forum that showed almost every one of the better apv's (semi. provari, evic and af ew others) always have a residual drain when sitting for long periods so even if you put in a new battery then set them on the table for a week the battery will slowly drain regardless.

it must also be noted that many of the cheaper mods only check resistance on first press, while things like the nivel and DNA are always sampling under load,(more computing= more power draw)

ith regulated VV / VW devices do high drain and max amperages mean nothing? So if i'm using the semovar in 18650 mode if I wanted the longest battery life I should choose a battery with the highest mAH I won't get any better performance vs a lower mAH 18650 battery?

it is a balancing point, which will depend on how bad the voltage drop of the battery is. if you have a 3000mah battery that drops .4v under load for example, that means the mod will shut off when the resting voltage reads 3.6 because every time you press the button the chip only sees 3.2v and thinks this is a dead battery.

a perfect case of this is the AW1600 VS the AW2000 as soon as you approach 5 amps under load the 2000 dips around .2 lower then the 1600

so with that in mind if you have a 2800 that dips .4 and a 1600 that dips .2 under the same load it will be perceived that they last the same amount of time or maybe the smaller battery may actually seem to last longer. even though there is plenty of life left in the 2800 the mod cant extract it becuase it shuts off at 3.2v under load. this is why reseating the battery gives more life, the chip saw 3.2 and said dead battery, when you put it back in it resets and goes this battery is actually at 3.55

in many cases there is more going on here then just 3000 is more then 2000. load drop, internal resistance of the battery itself, how much amp draw the boost curcuit has to pull for the load and several other things can affect overall life.

using the comparator for 3 and 5 amp loads i am actually interested in checking out a few smaller Mah batteries because they have less voltage drop and i want to see how close i can actually get to the 3.2v cutoff rating.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

 

[CheetahAce]

Got it. Thanks.

 

[rodsky77]

I really like the Semovar, and I'll buy a new version they make with a sensible interface.

One button interfaces make absolutely no sense for a device like this. It's just like computer mice - you aren't making things better by simplifying the control surface beyond a certain point. You're just pushing the complexity somewhere else, and making things much less intuitive and efficient.

Good buttons cost money, but not so much that you can't put three of them in a device costing this much.

You would be surprised how easy it is to change the settings using the one button interface. I have both the semovar and the provari mini - both with a one button interface, but different navigation, and it only took me a week or so to get a hang of the navigation on both and there's no longer any confusion when I use either one of them. More buttons would definitely make changing the settings more convenient, but I think that they will detract from the clean look of the semovar.

 

[Thrasher]

yea I tend to agree. i put a kayfun on it and i think the last time i changed anything was over a week ago, never understood why some play with the settings so much (no offense)