Smokeless Image, Bloog, etc... battery maH discrepancies?

[rawrscary]

The last line of the op is a question, "Thoughts?", which solicits me to share mine. My first thought poses a question. You have stated you found the manufacturer of SI Volt and Bloog batteries and posted an email alleged to have came from that manufacturer, but posted no source. How do I know the email actually comes from the manufacturer if I don't have a source to verify? It looks more like something that would come from a trader or competing manufacturer to me. I'm sure the photo she sent will appear in your review with some way of verifying that it is actually from the manufacturer. Second thought was the order of the email. I read it several times and something didn't quite ring true but I couldn't quite catch it without giving it more thought than I was inclined to. Starsong spared me the trouble and later posted my thought on that accurately. 3rd thought came from the response by Mr Morindir835, who I find to be entirely credible and knowledgeable, when he stated the batteries last about 33.5 minutes longer than gen 1. I've been using these batteries for a couple of months now and my experience parallels or exceeds his. How is this even possible if they don't in fact have more mah? Where does the extra time come from? Logic prevails in my mind. 4th thought came later in the thread reading a response to another poster when you stated you can do a review without actually owning or using that specific product. I'm glad you shared this since the only reviewers I personally find credible use a specific product, not one that claims to be the same, exclusively for at least a week before doing a review. That leaves quite a few that I find as entertaining but not to be taken any more seriously than the magazines at the grocery checkout. But that's just me. Final thoughts. I enjoy using these products and get excellent performance from them. The vendors I buy them from excel in customer service and one backs their product for an above average warranty period. They have been tested for accuracy in performance by knowledgeable and credible long term owner/users and found to perform. Accuracy in specs is moot compared to real world use. These are my "thoughts" you invited. I wish you luck with your review.

Fine, if you don't want to believe that this is their manufacturer, then don't. No one's twisting your wrist to believe anything I say.

I simply reported what this manufacturer stated. Like it or not.

As for the batteries lasting longer, it's been stated in other reviews that it's possible the battery gains extra life due to being regulated. Unregulated start out strong around 4.2v and slowly taper down to 3.6ish. Not allowing the battery to fire off at 4.2 could extend the length before recharge is needed.

That info can be found here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/kr808d-1/198463-volt-smokeless-image-review.html

As for reviewing a product... I haven't done a review yet lol. I'm in the process of gathering information. I'm also in the process of testing batteries. Bloog, Volt, SMoove, Nhaler, Elite Vaporworks, Halo, are all batteries that claim to be from the same manufacturer as Bloog, and that's what I'm currently testing.

The info I posted here, has nothing to do with my review that I'm working on. It's simply just something interesting that I came across. Manufacturer says one thing, vendors say another.


Now a question I have for you... You claim this looks more like something that comes from a trader. On what basis did you make that statement? Do you speak with manufacturers and traders? Is there a difference in the way they speak to you?

I can tell you that I've contacted many well known manufacturers, and some not so well known. There's been no difference in the way they communicated with me.

As for the order of the emails, starsong rearranged them in an order that isn't correct. I posted screen shots after his post, if you bothered to look at them before replying. Considering they were posted before your post was, I'm going to assume you just didn't bother to look at the dates and times on the email.

There should be no question about the order of which things were asked. Even if I did in fact lie about asking something in a certain order, the outcome is still the same. Manufacturer says battery capacity is one thing, vendor says another.

Lastly... I never once stated anywhere that I can do a review on a product without owning it. I think either you're purposely twisting around my words, or you just didn't comprehend what was said.

What I did state, is that I can however ask a manufacturer the specifications of their batteries, and compare that to what a vendor says. Me owning the product or not, has no bearing on what two other parties are claiming.

Again, this thread is not a review, and I think you are confusing it as such.

 

[Morandir835]

What the supposed manufacturer stated Rawrscary sir, you still haven't given any proof to show this is indeed the maker of the si and bloog batts....

 

[SteelJan]

Mr. Rawrscary, this is a vaping forum and you seem to be blowing a little smoke. Sorry, couldn't resist, lol, just wanted to make a pun. No offense intended.

Those of us who have been vaping the Volt for several months really like it. I've vaped many devices, made many devices, have done many vaping video reviews, and consider the Volt a fantastic ecig. The cartomizer and battery are perfectly balanced and designed to perform outstandingly well and last longer than previous 808's and their prefilled eliquids are great. The Volt product, the pricing, and the customer service is second to none. Coming from a background where I love to collect data and crunch the numbers, I'd say the mAh of the Volt batteries is fine by me.

I will ask you to consider another data point. Bloog, Smokeless Image, and many other vendors of the new-style 808's used to sell the weaker, not voltage-regulated, old-style 808 batteries until just a few months ago. Do you suppose if you sent an inquiry to the manufacturer of those old-style batteries and asked them whether they manufactured for Bloog or Smokeless Image that they would answer and say, "Oh, we used to, but they now get better batteries someplace else." ??? Or might it be more plausable that they would simply answer yes, thinking they have a fish on the line and want to make a sale to you?

Here's another data point for you to consider. The manufacturer of the Bloog/Smokeless Image batteries evidently make several varieties of identical looking batteries, different mAh, varying degrees of voltage regulation, etc. I know because I am currently testing batteries from a vendor who tells me are all from the same factory. He is being continually sent batteries from this factory and is trying to figure out which one of them are exactly the same as the Volt. I'm finding this quite fascinating. So far, the factory has told him that each one they have sent him is the same as the Volt, but they sure haven't vaped like a Volt to me so far. At least, not until the ones he sent me yesterday, I think he's finally found it, but I always test for at least a week and take a lot of data before I finish an evaluation. Bottom line for me here is that even the factory reps aren't sure what batteries are being manufactured in the Volt line, if indeed this is the same factory, so there's no way I'd expect these factory reps to know with any certainty what mAh are being put into a specific customer's batteries, lol.

Take care.

 

[Wuzznt Me]

Reply with quote would have taken up too much space but I'm sure you know which post this refers to.
Since you simply reported what "this" manufacturer said, how can you be sure you were actually corresponding with the manufacturer that makes SI Volt and Bloog batteries? Without a verifiable source no one can be sure you were actually in contact with the right factory. Chinese factories can say anything, especially if it discredits other manufacturers or vendors that don't use their products. And thank you for the link, very entertaining. Who is that guy anyway? I see he's been around since May 2011 and has 144posts which is more than ample time to become an expert. I liked the way he kept referring to GrimGreen and SteelJan as reliable sources. But I must have missed the part about him using the product for at least a week before reviewing. Which puts him in the entertaining category, in my opinion, as I referred to in my first post. I also didn't see his explanation of mah which is the topic of your op. I did see where he called the regulated batteries bs and that's where the rest of his credibility left for me. Perhaps not as well regulated as some of the high dollar mods he referred to but not totally unregulated either. Which brings me back to the question about mah. If the battery starts out at 4.2 but is regulated to 3.6ish resulting in a time gain, what happens when it drops below 3.6. and still continues to deliver 3.6 for the duration of its charge? Does the time gain from 4.2 to 3.6 remain or diminish and to what degree? If it does diminish then where does the extra time come from if not mah? Now to answer your question. I have spoken to traders and manufacturers, not e-cigarette but another product, and there is absolutely no difference in the way they speak to me. That’s exactly why I was wondering how you knew which one you were corresponding with or whether or not you had the correct one. Please exercise caution. I wouldn't want to see you get duped or mislead on such an important issue. As for the order of the emails, the screenshots weren't available at the time I was typing my post but the way they were presented seemed like something was misplaced or left out to confuse the context of the conversation. Thank you for clearing that up with "time stamps" and I won't try to figure it out any farther. As a matter of fact I'm just going to take your word for it and not bother to look at the screen shots. Lastly I apologize if you got the impression I was confusing this as a review. I was simply trying to respond to your posts and convey my thoughts as you solicited in your op and I wouldn't have even responded to your latest post if you hadn't asked me a question. Feel free to respond with whatever you wish at this point but be advised this will be my last post on this thread. We are obviously of different mindsets on vendors, manufacturers, reviewers and probably many things that make life satisfying and enjoyable. And I have better things to do with my time than research points that are moot to me or banter. Enjoy your crusade and be well.

 

[rawrscary]

Mr. Rawrscary, this is a vaping forum and you seem to be blowing a little smoke. Sorry, couldn't resist, lol, just wanted to make a pun. No offense intended.

Those of us who have been vaping the Volt for several months really like it. I've vaped many devices, made many devices, have done many vaping video reviews, and consider the Volt a fantastic ecig. The cartomizer and battery are perfectly balanced and designed to perform outstandingly well and last longer than previous 808's and their prefilled eliquids are great. The Volt product, the pricing, and the customer service is second to none. Coming from a background where I love to collect data and crunch the numbers, I'd say the mAh of the Volt batteries is fine by me.

I will ask you to consider another data point. Bloog, Smokeless Image, and many other vendors of the new-style 808's used to sell the weaker, not voltage-regulated, old-style 808 batteries until just a few months ago. Do you suppose if you sent an inquiry to the manufacturer of those old-style batteries and asked them whether they manufactured for Bloog or Smokeless Image that they would answer and say, "Oh, we used to, but they now get better batteries someplace else." ??? Or might it be more plausable that they would simply answer yes, thinking they have a fish on the line and want to make a sale to you?

Here's another data point for you to consider. The manufacturer of the Bloog/Smokeless Image batteries evidently make several varieties of identical looking batteries, different mAh, varying degrees of voltage regulation, etc. I know because I am currently testing batteries from a vendor who tells me are all from the same factory. He is being continually sent batteries from this factory and is trying to figure out which one of them are exactly the same as the Volt. I'm finding this quite fascinating. So far, the factory has told him that each one they have sent him is the same as the Volt, but they sure haven't vaped like a Volt to me so far. At least, not until the ones he sent me yesterday, I think he's finally found it, but I always test for at least a week and take a lot of data before I finish an evaluation. Bottom line for me here is that even the factory reps aren't sure what batteries are being manufactured in the Volt line, if indeed this is the same factory, so there's no way I'd expect these factory reps to know with any certainty what mAh are being put into a specific customer's batteries, lol.

Take care.

Hi Steeljan No offense taken to your pun lol. I am a big fan of your videos by the way

You do make some very good points, and they may be entirely correct. As I have tried to state, I am just relaying the information I have been told and putting it out there.

I've also been following the review you did for the guy that is getting all these batteries from this factory that he says is the one that makes Volt batteries. This review pretty much is what prompted me to investigate further and do my own review on the various brands that all claim to come from the same place as Bloog and Volt.

I have no issue with the companies themselves. I think Bloog and Smokeless Image are both great, though I will agree that Smokeless Image has a better grasp on what customer service should be. I will however have an issue if the information I was told by the manufacturer is correct and the vendors are claiming a capacity that is higher when it's really not. The way I look at it is, they are claiming a higher mah for their batteries because they know a lot of people will think they are better than other brands, and thus they make more sales. Again, IF, that information is correct.

I haven't outright stated the manufacturer here on the forums mainly because these vendors don't want to make it known, and I'm going to respect that. However, I would be interested in talking to you and Jayson some more about the batteries he's getting from this manufacturer. At first I thought that perhaps he was just being dishonest and trying to claim he had the same product so he could make sales off the popularity of Smokeless Image and Bloog. I am starting to question that though if he's getting multiple batteries from them and they are all performing differently.

I too find this fascinating that this factory would make Volt batteries and then send out batteries that are not the same. This kind of makes me wonder if perhaps it's more expensive to make Bloog/Volt batteries and so for new customers, they send them something cheaper that isn't necessarily the same.

By the way, have you considered doing a comparison review of Jayson's compared to Volt and Bloog? I'm trying to work on one right now comparing Bloog, Volt, Smoov, Elite Vaporworks, Halo, and Nhaler. I've been using three out of the six so far, and just jotting down my experiences with them. At some point I need to get a voltage meter from radio shack so I can put that in for review. The main thing I want to compare is what the batteries look like internally. Going to figure out a way to cut them open and I think that will really determine who is really the same as Bloog/Volt and who is getting the "fakes".

 

[Morandir835]

You'll need to purchase the equipment as well to test the ic's Rawrscary sir, otherwise you still won't know anything more than if they're using the same cells and switch set up or not....

 

[rawrscary]

Reply with quote would have taken up too much space but I'm sure you know which post this refers to.
Since you simply reported what "this" manufacturer said, how can you be sure you were actually corresponding with the manufacturer that makes SI Volt and Bloog batteries? Without a verifiable source no one can be sure you were actually in contact with the right factory. Chinese factories can say anything, especially if it discredits other manufacturers or vendors that don't use their products. And thank you for the link, very entertaining. Who is that guy anyway? I see he's been around since May 2011 and has 144posts which is more than ample time to become an expert. I liked the way he kept referring to GrimGreen and SteelJan as reliable sources. But I must have missed the part about him using the product for at least a week before reviewing. Which puts him in the entertaining category, in my opinion, as I referred to in my first post. I also didn't see his explanation of mah which is the topic of your op. I did see where he called the regulated batteries bs and that's where the rest of his credibility left for me. Perhaps not as well regulated as some of the high dollar mods he referred to but not totally unregulated either. Which brings me back to the question about mah. If the battery starts out at 4.2 but is regulated to 3.6ish resulting in a time gain, what happens when it drops below 3.6. and still continues to deliver 3.6 for the duration of its charge? Does the time gain from 4.2 to 3.6 remain or diminish and to what degree? If it does diminish then where does the extra time come from if not mah? Now to answer your question. I have spoken to traders and manufacturers, not e-cigarette but another product, and there is absolutely no difference in the way they speak to me. That’s exactly why I was wondering how you knew which one you were corresponding with or whether or not you had the correct one. Please exercise caution. I wouldn't want to see you get duped or mislead on such an important issue. As for the order of the emails, the screenshots weren't available at the time I was typing my post but the way they were presented seemed like something was misplaced or left out to confuse the context of the conversation. Thank you for clearing that up with "time stamps" and I won't try to figure it out any farther. As a matter of fact I'm just going to take your word for it and not bother to look at the screen shots. Lastly I apologize if you got the impression I was confusing this as a review. I was simply trying to respond to your posts and convey my thoughts as you solicited in your op and I wouldn't have even responded to your latest post if you hadn't asked me a question. Feel free to respond with whatever you wish at this point but be advised this will be my last post on this thread. We are obviously of different mindsets on vendors, manufacturers, reviewers and probably many things that make life satisfying and enjoyable. And I have better things to do with my time than research points that are moot to me or banter. Enjoy your crusade and be well.

This is the first manufacturer I've ever talked to who has stated they make Bloog and Volt batteries. They are also the only manufacturer I have found that makes the sliding PCC case. There are many traders selling them, but after looking at their offerings, it becomes obvious they are a trader. That being said... you would think a lot of them would be claiming to make bloog, but they don't. I have had several tell me they are aware of bloog, and can make kits just like theirs, but none have stated they are the manufacturer for Bloog and Volt batteries except for this one.

As for sharing who it is... no one here knows who Bloog/Volt's manufacturer is. So for me to put out a name really isn't going to prove anything. Everyone wants to know, but doesn't. I came across that fairly quickly when I first started asking around the forums about who made Bloog bats. After a couple months of reading, I figured out no one knew, and the people who did, weren't going to say.

That being said... I'm not here to expose anyone's manufacturer publicly. I may decide to mention it in private for people who want to talk about this further. But out of respect for the vendors, I'm just not going to do it on this forum. The only thing I ask is, if these batteries don't really have an extra 40 mah on them, the vendors really need to stop advertising as such.


As far as manufacturer versus traders go... I've studied this for a few months now. Generally traders on alibaba, will have a TON of products for sale. The products they are selling are very easy to identify as being from another manufacturer. I've seen many traders selling Kanger products, but then they also have a whole bunch of JSB products, for example. That's one way I've learned to distinguish who is the manufacturer, and who is the trader.

Another thing I look for is their website. A lot of traders won't link a website in their alibaba profile. They will just link to their store on alibaba or whatever other website they may have a store on. That being said, there are some traders that have their own sites, but again, after months of studying these guys... it's very obvious to spot which ones are selling products from the bigger name manufacturers.

There are other ways to distinguish a trader from a manufacturer, but those are the two basics. Talking to them also helps. Asking for a price list helps. Some traders have had very little on their site, but then they send a price list and I can see they are selling products from Kanger, Boge, JSB, etc...

I am very confident that the place I contacted is indeed the manufacturer for Bloog and Volt. However, I am going to do some more prying since people seem to have doubt.

 

[markfm]

Could people be running into a variant of the riva vs ego battery mah difference from a year ago?

Remember, a member opened one of each, the actual battery was the same even though ego called it a 650 while riva called it a 750?

In that case iirc the difference could be explained by converting to watt-hours, the total for the cell, then reconverting to effective mah based on the pv output voltage.

Trivial example: A 4v battery is rated 1000 mah. The available power is therefore 4000 mwh. If you have an efficient stepdown regulator (ideal), 2v regulated output, then you could say the battery supplies 2000 mah at 2v.

Possibly something like the above would explain a difference in claimed mah.

 

[SteelJan]

Hi Steeljan No offense taken to your pun lol. I am a big fan of your videos by the way

You do make some very good points, and they may be entirely correct. As I have tried to state, I am just relaying the information I have been told and putting it out there.

I've also been following the review you did for the guy that is getting all these batteries from this factory that he says is the one that makes Volt batteries. This review pretty much is what prompted me to investigate further and do my own review on the various brands that all claim to come from the same place as Bloog and Volt.

I have no issue with the companies themselves. I think Bloog and Smokeless Image are both great, though I will agree that Smokeless Image has a better grasp on what customer service should be. I will however have an issue if the information I was told by the manufacturer is correct and the vendors are claiming a capacity that is higher when it's really not. The way I look at it is, they are claiming a higher mah for their batteries because they know a lot of people will think they are better than other brands, and thus they make more sales. Again, IF, that information is correct.

I haven't outright stated the manufacturer here on the forums mainly because these vendors don't want to make it known, and I'm going to respect that. However, I would be interested in talking to you and Jayson some more about the batteries he's getting from this manufacturer. At first I thought that perhaps he was just being dishonest and trying to claim he had the same product so he could make sales off the popularity of Smokeless Image and Bloog. I am starting to question that though if he's getting multiple batteries from them and they are all performing differently.

I too find this fascinating that this factory would make Volt batteries and then send out batteries that are not the same. This kind of makes me wonder if perhaps it's more expensive to make Bloog/Volt batteries and so for new customers, they send them something cheaper that isn't necessarily the same.

By the way, have you considered doing a comparison review of Jayson's compared to Volt and Bloog? I'm trying to work on one right now comparing Bloog, Volt, Smoov, Elite Vaporworks, Halo, and Nhaler. I've been using three out of the six so far, and just jotting down my experiences with them. At some point I need to get a voltage meter from radio shack so I can put that in for review. The main thing I want to compare is what the batteries look like internally. Going to figure out a way to cut them open and I think that will really determine who is really the same as Bloog/Volt and who is getting the "fakes".

Cool. Yeah, since you've been following my videos, you'll know that I've been reviewing a bunch of new-style 808 kits and have so far found that they are definitely not alike. The batteries are all sorts of different and many times the vendors don't actually know what's in the kits they are selling until I review them, lol. They've told me that China is continually making changes without telling the vendors, the changes just show up. I think that only with the vendors who have specified their exact kits get consistent product.

And it's not just with the batteries, it's with the cartomizers as well. I'm finding that definitely there are several horizontal coil cartomizers that are rubbish. Many are too high of ohms, have manufacturing gunk in them. and bad-tasting filler material that affects the eliquid taste, and bad eliquids to boot.

On top of all this, those vendors are charging more for their kits and/or replacement parts and/or eliquids.

As for doing an exact comparison of all of these vendor's products, not all of these vendors are willing to send their kits to me to review, LOL!!! Smoov offered me a kit, I told them if their batteries were that teeny-tiny hole'd variety exactly like I'd already reviewed from another vendor, it was probably going to get a similar review from me that wasn't entirely favorable. I didn't like that teeny hole, it plugs up too easily and quickly, plus that battery faded in power, so was not regulated very well. They said yes it was the same but they would send me a kit anyway, that was over a month ago, but so far it has not arrived. I think they reconsidered getting a review from me, ya think? LOL!!

The other thing is that I also compare price + shipping cost and customer service. Look at the vendors you are wanting to compare. If they all sold the exact same product as the Volt, look at their price + shipping and customer service. I see only one of those in your list that is close in price + shipping to the Smokeless Image Volt. The others aren't even close, they are way overpriced. And everyone knows Smokeless Image's customer service is flawless, they have an on-line real-time customer service chatline, phone support, very fast shipping, will right any error immediately, and they are active here on ecf everyday, interacting with customers continually. That level of customer support can be duplicated, but the only way it could be exceeded is if a vendor personally got on a plane and hand-delivered each order personally, lol.

If you are wanting to test voltages on these batteries, remember you're going to have to jump through some hoops to measure the voltage on automatic batteries. Like I did on my videos. I built a couple of different jigs to test with because you have to activate them with negative air pressure while measuring at the same time. And to be really accurate, you need to have the load of the cartomizer on the battery while you measure.

 

[starsong]

I was just about to say everything that Jan said, but she beat me to it.

j/k

This sort of reminds me of the mega pcc claims from the manufacturer that Jan proved to be wrong. It seems the misinformation is coming from the manufacturer, not SI/Bloog. Smoov, on the other hand, might be overstating theirs if they are actually selling the older or different version. Too bad it wasn't their name in your headline.

 

[rawrscary]

Cool. Yeah, since you've been following my videos, you'll know that I've been reviewing a bunch of new-style 808 kits and have so far found that they are definitely not alike. The batteries are all sorts of different and many times the vendors don't actually know what's in the kits they are selling until I review them, lol. They've told me that China is continually making changes without telling the vendors, the changes just show up. I think that only with the vendors who have specified their exact kits get consistent product.

And it's not just with the batteries, it's with the cartomizers as well. I'm finding that definitely there are several horizontal coil cartomizers that are rubbish. Many are too high of ohms, have manufacturing gunk in them. and bad-tasting filler material that affects the eliquid taste, and bad eliquids to boot.

On top of all this, those vendors are charging more for their kits and/or replacement parts and/or eliquids.

As for doing an exact comparison of all of these vendor's products, not all of these vendors are willing to send their kits to me to review, LOL!!! Smoov offered me a kit, I told them if their batteries were that teeny-tiny hole'd variety exactly like I'd already reviewed from another vendor, it was probably going to get a similar review from me that wasn't entirely favorable. I didn't like that teeny hole, it plugs up too easily and quickly, plus that battery faded in power, so was not regulated very well. They said yes it was the same but they would send me a kit anyway, that was over a month ago, but so far it has not arrived. I think they reconsidered getting a review from me, ya think? LOL!!

The other thing is that I also compare price + shipping cost and customer service. Look at the vendors you are wanting to compare. If they all sold the exact same product as the Volt, look at their price + shipping and customer service. I see only one of those in your list that is close in price + shipping to the Smokeless Image Volt. The others aren't even close, they are way overpriced. And everyone knows Smokeless Image's customer service is flawless, they have an on-line real-time customer service chatline, phone support, very fast shipping, will right any error immediately, and they are active here on ecf everyday, interacting with customers continually. That level of customer support can be duplicated, but the only way it could be exceeded is if a vendor personally got on a plane and hand-delivered each order personally, lol.

If you are wanting to test voltages on these batteries, remember you're going to have to jump through some hoops to measure the voltage on automatic batteries. Like I did on my videos. I built a couple of different jigs to test with because you have to activate them with negative air pressure while measuring at the same time. And to be really accurate, you need to have the load of the cartomizer on the battery while you measure.

Interesting information.

I have a couple questions for you, because you are so good at this lol. When people say, you should test it under load... how would you go about doing that? I've seen the one where you test the auto bat with the straw and you're sucking air through to get it to activate, but how would you put the meter pins on there to test if there's a cartomizer on it? Is there a video of you doing that by chance? The one I saw that you tested didn't have a carto on it, so I'm guessing that means it was tested without load.

I'm not a battery expert by any means lol. I'm just curious to get down to the bottom of who's batteries are who's and who's they arent! lol

I actually have the Smoov kit already, but I did order a couple fresh batteries since I had been using my kits for a while now... I have not noticed them "weeny vaping" at all, and I will say that I've seen several manufacturers who have the tiny hole batteries, but not all of them are regulated.

Smoov however claims theirs are regulated to 3.7, and they advertise the same mah as Bloog/Volt at 220, 320. They don't carry the 102mm as far as I'm aware.

Cartomizers. This is another thing I'm curious about as well. I'm probably just going to end up cutting them all open as well and comparing them all to Volt and Bloog. I am going to be ordering some from a variety of places selling the 808 kits and we'll just see what happens I guess.

Bloog claims everything they sell is made at the same place now, where as previously they were from different places. So it'll be interesting to see who matches up and who doesn't.

By the way, I am not getting anything for free. Jayson offered to send me stuff for free, but I declined. I am buying everything myself that way no one can say that my conclusions have been swayed lol.

 

[rawrscary]

I was just about to say everything that Jan said, but she beat me to it.

j/k

This sort of reminds me of the mega pcc claims from the manufacturer that Jan proved to be wrong. It seems the misinformation is coming from the manufacturer, not SI/Bloog. Smoov, on the other hand, might be overstating theirs if they are actually selling the older or different version. Too bad it wasn't their name in your headline.

I own a smoov, and it performs the same as Bloog and Volt. I only mentioned Bloog and Volt in the headline, because those are the two that the manufacturer stated in the email. However, in my very first email with them they said they manufacture for 21st Century, Smoke Free, Cig2o, Bloog, and Smokeless Image.

To say that because of the PCC info being wrong, that the manufacturer is wrong, doesn't really make sense. The manufacturer making Bloog/Volt batteries does not make the mega PCC. They only make the sliding PCC. The mega PCC is from someone else entirely. Either way, it has nothing to do with the batteries.

 

[SteelJan]

I was just about to say everything that Jan said, but she beat me to it.

j/k

This sort of reminds me of the mega pcc claims from the manufacturer that Jan proved to be wrong. It seems the misinformation is coming from the manufacturer, not SI/Bloog. Smoov, on the other hand, might be overstating theirs if they are actually selling the older or different version. Too bad it wasn't their name in your headline.

LOL!! Love you StarSong. To be fair, I've never seen Smoov claim to have the same battery as Bloog/SI, matter of fact, they claim to have a differently designed battery based around that teeny airhole that they say keeps eliquid from getting inside the battery very easily -- in other words, they tout that annoying teeny airhole as a "feature" - LOL! Now, I have seen reviewers say the Smoov is the same as the Bloog/SI, but it's from those reviewers that turn on their cameras, open the package, go vape-vape, yeah, it's good, it's the same as the Bloog/SI. Oooh, I do not like those types of reviewers, LOL!!

 

[Darkstar]

That being said... I realize it's a very small amount. In real world usage, it's probably going to equate to maybe a few extra puffs. To me though, it's the principle of the matter. A vendor making claims about something that isn't actually so, does not bode well with me. And yes, I am a big fan of Bloog.
Thoughts?

How pointless is this?

Seriously, your point seems to be:
~ They lie - according to some random email you claim is from someone who may or may not be their supplier; a person who may even have motives for such claims for all anyone knows (shoot, we don't even know what your motives might be, but whatever...)

~ That the lie probably doesn't make a difference in the world, but you still want to make it known they may or may not lie based off the supposed email from someone who may or may not be their supplier; again, a person who may or may not have motives behind such statements...

~ You don't know for sure though, of course, if it does make any difference because you haven't tested what you are claiming they lie about yourself. Instead, you're just going around calling people liars based off someone who may or may not have any connection to anything and the assumption that there might possibly be some small difference in the products performance because of the supposed lie - despite the difference likely being minor in your eyes anyway...

~ Lastly, you don't have any context for this supposed lie. Even if it is true, for all you know, all batteries on the market see the same difference in their numbers for an unknown reason. Instead of investigating this supposed lie provided to you by a person who may or may not have anything to do with anything, you just throw it to the public in an apparent attempt to slander others in order to... well, I guess that's where our not knowing your motives really comes into play...

And all this was done because... you are going to "review" products which you act as though you haven't even tried. (at least yet, although you do allude to the possibility you will try what you are reviewing before you actually review it...) You're quote:

Even if I only owned one brand out of five. If they are all claiming the same battery capacity, but the manufacturer says different, how would me owning, using, or trying their product make a difference?

In the end, all you seem to have done is discredit yourself with a strange post most cant understand because it has no real point; but it was one which has still led to your eventually becoming extremely defensive and argumentative in your attempt to protect said unknown point. Hence people having little logical alternative then to question you in the end.

Maybe, just maybe, it would have been better to contact the companies and get their take and input on the matter before making an out of yourself? Or was that too logical of a start?

Because, honestly, I am sitting here thinking to myself it all probably boils down to one of two things:
1) You spoke to someone who is trying to manufacture counterfeit batteries and is attempting to bring the reputable companies down to the lower level he is able to duplicate
2) You yourself are involved with a company who is trying to steal business away from one of said companies and are attempting to bring their status down

There are other possibilities of course - those just seem the most likely however...

 

[iball]

Occam's Razor - the title to this thread is all you need to know about the OP's orignal intent. She's making an assumption of someone making "false claims".

Let me bottom-line it for everyone here: this woman is simply just trying to find out the EXACT factory in China making the SI batteries and is using the old stand-by excuse of "research" to find out. It's basic intel gathering, and not very well disguised at that. She needs to learn more about interrogation tactics and techniques.

Why? Because so far SI's batteries are among the BEST 808-style batts out there in terms of performance. Why waste a lot of time going through many Chinese manufacturers and waiting on many different test shipments of "We make Volt batteries! We ship you quick-time!" when you can come in here and hopefully sucker the vendor or someone close to the vendor into giving up the manufacturing source, all in the name of "research"?
They're your friends, not your enemy! (wink, wink)
They're just trying to find out which batts are really the "best"! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
This way they can do such a great public service and inform everyone who has the "best" batteries! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, paint the target, time to target, roll left, roll right, roll out, cleared hot...)

This is an old, old interrogation tactic that is still in use today around the world. Hell, I've used it on some very bad people and they've really spout out some good usable intel because of it.
Intel that was then used to roll up their friends and repeat the whole process over again.
Remember folks, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And gallons of blood. And pain and suffering and economic loss. But I digress...

 

[rawrscary]

Oh, and to top it off...

Here is what was posted from Smokeless Image (who cant post in this topic)



...soooooo, they contact you to find out who you were contacting and you refuse to answer; instead insisting they tell you who they deal with???

This really blows your credibility even farther out of the water. Now it seems as though you are either A) that competitor trying to discredit I felt before or B) a lying cheapskate weasel trying to figure out a way to get superior products cheaper by going directly to the supplier and slandering the companies if they refuse to hand over the information you request.

Either way, whatever. A pointless topic now seems to have become a possible sleazy intent topic and what little credibility I would have ever considered giving you is completely trashed.

Smooth move man, I'll really be waiting to see your "reviews" now...

No, Smokeless Image NEVER contacted me to find out who I talked to. Smokeless Image contacted me several weeks ago after I was commenting in the 808D forums. I was asking about the manufacturer because there are now other vendors claiming they are selling the same bats as Volt, yet as Steeljan said, they are not performing the same. I was commenting mostly about the battery stats. Imagine PM'd me to give clarification on the stats. Never once did anyone contact me about this thread now. So I don't know where you get off saying they contacted me to find out who I talked to, and I instead insisted they tell me the manufacturer. You want to talk about slander? I think you just defined it.

I also never got upset when they PM'd me lol. Infact I said I WOULD be buying from them. Not sure where SI came up with that from. I did however say that I felt like their secrecy was causing other vendors to start selling things and claiming it was the same as Volt, yet it really wasn't. Never once did I say I would not buy from them. In fact I asked them about their juices and where they were sourced from, and never got a reply back.

I will post my correspondence with SI here:

Imagine-

Hi,

I have seen a bunch of your posts around the forum. Feel free to drop into our thread here :

OFFICIAL - SMOKELESSIMAGE.com Thread

The batteries are not 5v. They are regulated 3.6-3.7 volts. The are LI-Pro batteries. They stay consistent at about 3.6 they start at that...they do drop off a bit to 3.4 before they die...but they are much more consistent then regular non regulated batts with start at 4.2 then do down to about 3.0 before they die.

They also have updated switch technology which make them much less likely to activate to noise or movement.

There should only be slight differences between us and the other vendors you mentioned... basically custom specs we request.

They are not Kanger or Shinning. We do not say who... as to keep the factory an industry secret.

Thanks,

-imagine.

My Reply -

Well thanks for the info, I'm still curious as to why some are saying a 5v bat that's regulated to 3.7. Also don't get why it's a secret when there's at least 6 other vendors selling these same bats now.

I will say that there is one in particular which was reviewed by steeljan and he's claiming to have the same bats as you, yet steeljan tested four of his against one of yours and none of them lasted. So the secret thing is really going to end up causing people to buy fakes and causing dishonest vendors to start claiming they have the newer regulated bats. There is really no way for regular consumers who don't get into these forums, to know what to look for, or what the difference really is.

At any rate, thanks for the message. I will certainly be buying some of your bats to compare with my Smoov kit. So far they appear to be the exact same as yours and Bloog's, but we shall see

Imagine's reply-

I have no idea why they would claim they are 5v... it doesn't make sense. The real important thing is the mAh... the voltage is then balanced to work with the cartos and resistance... as with any quality e-cig.

There would be no reason to make it 5v and regulate it to 3.6 (if that is even possible)...when you could just make it 3.6 to start with.

I believe they are just misinformed.

I agree that although keeping the factories and industry secret can lead to some vendors claiming the wrong thing... however they should probably not be in the business in the first place in that case. The owners of SI have been in this business since the beginning of the e-cig boom in 2008 and know the industry and the forum well....

Nothing is really a "secret" you can find the correct factories if you know what you are looking for....
We just don't want to put it out there and make is so easy for those looking to copycat ... I am sure you can understand from a business standpoint

If you ever need anything just let me know

My reply which I never got a response back to -

I really don't know either. Just so you can see an example of what I'm talking about, here is the link to the battery section for Smoov: Batteries

You can obviously see where they even write it into their description, which also made me question whether or not they were the same as yours and Bloog's batteries. I have no issue with the Smoov kit as of yet, I'm mainly just curious because this seems to be like the hot new kit to sell. So far it looks identical to you, Bloog, Nhaler, V9, Halo, and all the rest that are selling it. I don't count Elite Vaporworks as a vendor because I think he's selling fakes and trying to claim they are like the others lol.

Anyway, enough about that for now I suppose. And yes I do understand your position from a business standpoint. I don't like the copycat thing either. My plan is actually to get all four of the major batteries, Bloog, Volt, Smoov, and then this Elite Vaporworks guy, and cut them all open for a comparison. He swears up and down they are the same, even going so far as to claim he went to the factory a few days ago and saw them making Volt batteries there. But yet Steeljan still could not get FOUR of his bats to last as long as one of yours. So we shall see when I do my comparison lol.

Just a quick question. The prefilled carts you sell, are those with Chinese juice or USA made juice?

Moderator note: Imagine has decided to allow this posting of PMs without prior consent. be warned that it is NOT the moderators job to gain such consent and you are treading on thin ice with the TOS

 

[rawrscary]

Occam's Razor - the title to this thread is all you need to know about the OP's orignal intent. She's making an assumption of someone making "false claims".

Let me bottom-line it for everyone here: this woman is simply just trying to find out the EXACT factory in China making the SI batteries and is using the old stand-by excuse of "research" to find out. It's basic intel gathering, and not very well disguised at that. She needs to learn more about interrogation tactics and techniques.

Why? Because so far SI's batteries are among the BEST 808-style batts out there in terms of performance. Why waste a lot of time going through many Chinese manufacturers and waiting on many different test shipments of "We make Volt batteries! We ship you quick-time!" when you can come in here and hopefully sucker the vendor or someone close to the vendor into giving up the manufacturing source, all in the name of "research"?
They're your friends, not your enemy! (wink, wink)
They're just trying to find out which batts are really the "best"! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
This way they can do such a great public service and inform everyone who has the "best" batteries! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, paint the target, time to target, roll left, roll right, roll out, cleared hot...)

This is an old, old interrogation tactic that is still in use today around the world. Hell, I've used it on some very bad people and they've really spout out some good usable intel because of it.
Intel that was then used to roll up their friends and repeat the whole process over again.
Remember folks, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And gallons of blood. And pain and suffering and economic loss. But I digress...

While normally I would agree with you, that isn't my intent lol...

As I told Steeljan... ALL of this started when she posted a review for Elite Vaporworks. I already owned the Smoov kit and after watching her video, I thought the guy was selling fakes and trying to glom onto Bloog/Smokeless Image and sell something fake at a cheaper price.

The reason I thought that was because Steeljan compared a Volt bat, with a small pin hole, to a Elite Vaporworks bat, with a large hole. After myself already owning the Smoov, which also has a small pinhole, I assumed his bats were fake.

Steeljan corrected me later and said that only that limited edition pink battery had the small hole, and the rest of the Volt batteries had the larger holes, like Bloog.

During that time though, I started investigating for who the manufacturer was, but obviously found it's a big secret around here. So I just started contacting manufacturers. As I stated before, not a single one aside from the one I've posted emails from, has claimed they make Bloog or Volt batteries. So everyone here squawking about how everyone in China is lying about making the batteries... well you're wrong. Don't believe me? Find out yourself, contact them and ask.

I'm certainly not interested in buying from the manufacturer, because I don't feel like ordering 500 kits at a time and paying several thousand dollars. By the time I got around to using all those, half the batteries would probably be dead in the first place.

The only goal I've ever had was to figure out which vendors are "blowing smoke" up everyones behind and which ones are selling the legit batteries and cartos like SI and Bloog.

The problem now is, is that due to the headline title of this thread... people are getting angry as if I'm trying to bash and ruin someones reputation, and that isn't the case. I'm simply presenting the facts. The manufacturer that claims to make for Bloog and Volt is stating something different than what Bloog and Volt are both stating.

Here's another example: Jayson from Elite Vaporworks posted this in his thread: "Also, one fact I forgot to mention, these cells, including the Volt cell have 1.05Wh printed right on them. These are lithium polymer cells. So 4.2V at the cell fresh off the charger. 1.05Wh / 4.2V = 250Mah 1.05 / 3.7v = 284Mah. The manufacturer of the cells themselves lists them as 280Mah. So it seems that Halo has the most accurate advertising of all the vendors purchasing these batteries."

After going to Halo's page, sure enough they advertise the battery at 280 mah, NOT 320.

So my question is... since most people agree that Halo is the same battery as Volt and Bloog, then why are two out of three claiming 320 mah?

 

[beachpuff]

As I told Steeljan... ALL of this started when she posted a review for Elite Vaporworks. I already owned the Smoov kit and after watching her video, I thought the guy was selling fakes and trying to glom onto Bloog/Smokeless Image and sell something fake at a cheaper price.

It sounds like Jayson is trying to get to the bottom of all this. He's a great vendor, he ships fast and for free, and I have not had any issues with his products. I purchased a 65mm battery from him a while back that performed exactly like my Bloogs & Volts. I haven't tried the ones he carries now, only because I don't like the 78mm.

But, from everything I've read, it looks like you still haven't tried one of his for yourself?

Back to manufacturer inconsistencies - my second & third Bloog batteries did not perform as well as my first one. They were from a different batch, and although several of us mentioned it on their subforum months ago, there was never any definitive answer. I haven't tried any more of their batteries, been using the Volts, which have all performed the same.

 

[rawrscary]

It sounds like Jayson is trying to get to the bottom of all this. He's a great vendor, he ships fast and for free, and I have not had any issues with his products. I purchased a 65mm battery from him a while back that performed exactly like my Bloogs & Volts. I haven't tried the ones he carries now, only because I don't like the 78mm.

But, from everything I've read, it looks like you still haven't tried one of his for yourself?

Back to manufacturer inconsistencies - my second & third Bloog batteries did not perform as well as my first one. They were from a different batch, and although several of us mentioned it on their subforum months ago, there was never any definitive answer. I haven't tried any more of their batteries, been using the Volts, which have all performed the same.

Jayson is trying to get to the bottom of it. I spoke with him earlier and he's going to let me know more information when he gets home.

I think now what's happening is this manufacturer may make Volt's batteries, but they aren't necessarily sending the same batteries out to all the other vendors that order from them... OR, they are simply just not producing the same battery consistently. It's hard to tell being that they ARE in China.

 

[iball]

What does that have to do with anything? I asked Imagine, in a private message about the juice. Then this idiot comes here and says I should read through the entire SI thread to find the answer? What claim did I make about their juice? I haven't talked about it once... Perhaps you could stop twisting things?

You stated your claim in the THREAD TITLE. I would suggest you go read it but that might be too much work for you so I'll repost it here:

Smokeless Image, Bloog, etc... making false claims?

You're suggesting that Smokeless Image, Bloog, etc are all "making false claims". Putting it in the form of a question doesn't absolve you of libelous intentions.

In other words, perhaps next time you should think a little more before titling a thread like that.