Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

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LaceyUnderall

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Dec 4, 2008
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They did the exact same thing in the Nicotine Water case.

And we all know who the real push against Nicotine Water was from: The same who are against the ecig... tobacco Free Kids, American Lung Association, American Cancer Society...

It's amazing that the very groups that want people off of tobacco can't just come out and say what they really want and that is Nicotine Prohibition, unless of course it is made by pharm. ;) But then again, that argument makes them look like what they really are.
 

TropicalBob

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What I find difficult to swallow is the FDA's statements that these would still be illegal "medical devices" for treating nicotine addiction even if they contain no nicotine in the cartridge.

I can't see much wiggle room, given all we have in writing from the FDA. Clearly, the route to market is through the FDA, not around them. They have all the law they need to do as they please.
 

careful_193

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May 10, 2009
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And we all know who the real push against Nicotine Water was from: The same who are against the ECig... Tobacco Free Kids, American Lung Association, American Cancer Society...

It's amazing that the very groups that want people off of tobacco can't just come out and say what they really want and that is Nicotine Prohibition, unless of course it is made by pharm. ;) But then again, that argument makes them look like what they really are.
Hi everyone! I am a newbie, but have kept up with these forums for months. I also have become a supplier -just recently. I just wanted to take the time to mention that I have been a nurse for 15 years, and have often used the expression-"I went into the wrong profession-I should have started a Pharmacutical company"!... If anyone disagrees that the pharmacutical companies won't have their hands in the E-CIG cookie jar, they are sadly mistaken. Pharmacutical companies have their hands in EVERYTHING! It is a money machine industry looking to give the world a "Quick Fix" for everything. I can guarantee that the FDA will regulate the nicotine contents in e-cigs, and will hand over it's research and development to the largest politically tied pharmacutical company in the USA. E-cigs will be legal, I'm sure...Just not sure what it will cost us all in the long run.
 

LaceyUnderall

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Hi everyone! I am a newbie, but have kept up with these forums for months. I also have become a supplier -just recently. I just wanted to take the time to mention that I have been a nurse for 15 years, and have often used the expression-"I went into the wrong profession-I should have started a Pharmacutical company"!... If anyone disagrees that the pharmacutical companies won't have their hands in the E-CIG cookie jar, they are sadly mistaken. Pharmacutical companies have their hands in EVERYTHING! It is a money machine industry looking to give the world a "Quick Fix" for everything. I can guarantee that the FDA will regulate the nicotine contents in e-cigs, and will hand over it's research and development to the largest politically tied pharmacutical company in the USA. E-cigs will be legal, I'm sure...Just not sure what it will cost us all in the long run.

And this is where suppliers have to stand up, together and say "Hello NO!" We brought the market to the US and now they want to take that market and dole it out to those with deep pockets, eliminating everything that is left of our free market society.

For those interested suppliers, the ECA is offering a discount for signing up in the month of July AND if you have other issues that would not allow you to afford becoming a member, NYCSublimeGirl is HAPPY to hear from you so you can work out your membership. She can be PM'd through ECF or you can contact her through the contact form on the ECA website. If you can't find her, you can always find me and I will forward it onto her.

From her post: ECA Membership Special: Until July 31st, 2009 the ECA Membership application fee is reduced by 50%, to $250. This is also the cut off date for any companies wish to obtain “Founding Member” status. Visit ECA Membership for more information about this special and how to become a member of the Electronic Cigarette Association.
 
I wonder if this letter, that I just received, sheds any light on this issue:

Thank you for making your opinions known to the Agency. We appreciate your thoughts and experiences regarding electronic cigarette, cigar, and pipe products.

At this time, we are not aware of any data establishing electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes as generally recognized among scientific experts as safe and effective. Based upon our investigation of these products, they are drug/device combinations that require approval by FDA before they may be legally marketed in the United States.
None of these so-called electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipes, or their components, has been approved by FDA. Therefore, the marketing of them in the United States is subject to enforcement action. As a matter of policy, however, we limit communications about the regulatory status of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those actions.

There may be a perception among some users that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes are safer alternatives to conventional tobacco products. There may also be a perception that these products are a safe and effective means to quit smoking conventional forms of tobacco. However, FDA is not aware of any scientific data to support those perceptions. Since these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, the agency has no way of knowing the amounts of nicotine or the kinds and amounts of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user. FDA is concerned that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes may introduce young people to nicotine use which may lead to an increase in the use of conventional tobacco products with well-known, adverse, health consequences. Additionally, it is unclear what health effects these products could have on users or if misuse or product failure could lead to nicotine poisoning or other serious adverse health consequences.

There are a number of proven safe and effective cessation aids that smokers can use to quit smoking. The U.S. Public Health Service’s, Treating Tobacco Use and Dependence: 2008 Update recommends using a combination of proven cessation interventions including FDA approved nicotine replacement therapy and/or non-nicotine medications and counseling to more than double a smoker’s chances of quitting successfully. Free help is available to smokers in all states by calling 1-800-QUIT-NOW or by visiting Smokefree.gov.

Again, we appreciate the time that you have taken to contact us.
Best regards,
Division of Drug Information 7
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Food and Drug Administration

This communication is consistent with 21CFR10.85(k) and constitutes and informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal position of the FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed.
 

grimmer255

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What I find difficult to swallow is the FDA's statements that these would still be illegal "medical devices" for treating nicotine addiction even if they contain no nicotine in the cartridge.

I can't see much wiggle room, given all we have in writing from the FDA. Clearly, the route to market is through the FDA, not around them. They have all the law they need to do as they please.
I thought the FDA has control over nicotine not flavored PG. Ahh now I see because it is advertised as a alternative to smoking tobacco. But what if the ecig companies change tactics and simply say mini foger inhaler with flavors with 0 nicotine. could the FDA have control then?
 

grimmer255

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I wonder if this letter, that I just received, sheds any light on this issue:

Thank you for making your opinions known to the Agency. We appreciate your thoughts and experiences regarding electronic cigarette, cigar, and pipe products.

At this time, we are not aware of any data establishing electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes as generally recognized among scientific experts as safe and effective. Based upon our investigation of these products, they are drug/device combinations that require approval by FDA before they may be legally marketed in the United States.
None of these so-called electronic cigarettes, cigars, and pipes, or their components, has been approved by FDA. Therefore, the marketing of them in the United States is subject to enforcement action. As a matter of policy, however, we limit communications about the regulatory status of specific marketed products to those responsible for them, and we do not discuss our enforcement actions except with the targets of those actions.

There may be a perception among some users that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes are safer alternatives to conventional tobacco products. There may also be a perception that these products are a safe and effective means to quit smoking conventional forms of tobacco. However, FDA is not aware of any scientific data to support those perceptions. Since these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, the agency has no way of knowing the amounts of nicotine or the kinds and amounts of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user. FDA is concerned that electronic cigarettes, cigars, or pipes may introduce young people to nicotine use which may lead to an increase in the use of conventional tobacco products with well-known, adverse, health consequences. Additionally, it is unclear what health effects these products could have on users or if misuse or product failure could lead to nicotine poisoning or other serious adverse health consequences.

There are a number of proven safe and effective cessation aids that smokers can use to quit smoking. The U.S. Public Health Service’s, Treating Tobacco Use and Dependence: 2008 Update recommends using a combination of proven cessation interventions including FDA approved nicotine replacement therapy and/or non-nicotine medications and counseling to more than double a smoker’s chances of quitting successfully. Free help is available to smokers in all states by calling 1-800-QUIT-NOW or by visiting Smokefree.gov.

Again, we appreciate the time that you have taken to contact us.
Best regards,
Division of Drug Information 7
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Food and Drug Administration

This communication is consistent with 21CFR10.85(k) and constitutes and informal communication that represents our best judgment at this time but does not constitute an advisory opinion, does not necessarily represent the formal position of the FDA, and does not bind or otherwise obligate or commit the agency to the views expressed.
yes i recieved that same letter today. at least they put my name. I hate those .......s.
 
Anyone notice a typo in the disclaimer? "And" instead of "an"? How unprofessional. And how hypocritical, when I read in today's paper that they continue to approve Darvon, which according to the article is deemed "weak" by physicians and has been banned in other countries after having been linked to side effects including suicide! I think I'll reply to this form letter. Can't hurt!

~~Cheryl
 

grimmer255

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Anyone notice a typo in the disclaimer? "And" instead of "an"? How unprofessional. And how hypocritical, when I read in today's paper that they continue to approve Darvon, which according to the article is deemed "weak" by physicians and has been banned in other countries after having been linked to side effects including suicide! I think I'll reply to this form letter. Can't hurt!

~~Cheryl
ouch.......what is Darvon used for?
 

careful_193

Full Member
May 10, 2009
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Murphy NC.
Obviously the FDA knows enough to declare E-Cigs A "Drug/Device Combination". How far they can push the Nicotine issue is limited because nicotine itself is not illegal-but it's use is regulated...Once again, it goes back to pharmacuticals. I have no personal doubt that the FDA is having this product and it's contents tested-even though they won't admit they have samples of the product. They must or they don't have much of an argument as to it's contents or it's safety. I see no merit that this product is being marketed to children based on the simple fact it's not advertised commercially or on the local store shelves just yet. Because of the demand for e-cigs, it is certain the FDA will contract out e-cigs, and their contents, to a pharmacutical company (like Pfizer);have it tested-approved, marketed-then slap the FDA Approved sticker on it- making theirs legal to market-and ours illegal to market-It's all about the benjamins folks! Especially when it comes to government/FDA approved medications.
 

emsmom

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Mar 19, 2009
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grimmer - darvon is a prescription pain killer, not a very effective one, but one none the less. Darvocette contains tylenol and is a commonly prescribed darvon product. With all the uproar presently about accidental tylenol overdoses, my guess is this is one of the drugs they would target, since it doesn't work very well to begin with, so overuse would not be that uncommon?
Sorry for the off topic.
 
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grimmer255

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grimmer - darvon is a prescription pain killer, not a very effective one, but one none the less. Contains tylenol too. With all the uproar presently about accidental tylenol overdoses, my guess is this is one of the drugs they would target, since it doesn't work very well to begin with, so overuse would not be that uncommon?
interesting its the first time I ever heard of it. I stick to white willow...natural. even when I had my appendix taken out I told the dock no pain killers...even though I was in pain I delt with it because when the pain began to go away I was more aware of my healing process and the pain let me know to help prevent further damage while moving.
Unless I was shot, stabbed, or fell off a ladder and break several bones keep me away from pain killers.
 

grimmer255

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Just got the same form letter as others. How insulting and also inaccurate! Just hope this wasn't their way of getting a list of ecig users! Ask for feedback, then come knocking on doors. Thank goodness they don't have the man power. Must be getting paranoid in my old age?
Your not doing anything wrong...nicotine is still legal. The judge will dismiss it because you are not distributing it. If they do anything they will go after the big players. Beside if they do come knocking it will be the DEA and local police. again nothing can be done because nicotine is legal.
 

Antebellum

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May 8, 2009
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I got the same letter. I thought it was pretty arrogant in general, but the condescending last part purely annoyed me.

"There are a number of proven safe and effective cessation aids that smokers can use to quit smoking. The U.S. Public Health Service’s, Treating Tobacco Use and Dependence: 2008 Update recommends using a combination of proven cessation interventions including FDA approved nicotine replacement therapy and/or non-nicotine medications and counseling to more than double a smoker’s chances of quitting successfully. Free help is available to smokers in all states by calling 1-800-QUIT-NOW or by visiting www.smokefree.gov."

"Proven safe and effective." What utter bull. I tried every one of them, mostly at great expense, and never stopped smoking for any longer than I used them. A couple of them I never stopped smoking WHEN I used them - Welbutrin and Chantix/Champix. Effective, my .... If they are so effective, why is the one-year quit rate so dismal? Why are there folks that have been chewing the gum FOR YEARS now?


And they put MY name on the message, but nobody at the all-mighty FDA put THEIR name on it. Maybe because it's not a person. Maybe it was just a mail-filter-reply: if the message mentions "electronic cigarettes," send them this.
 
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