Smoking Everywhere V. FDA Daily Docket Sheet Update--APPEAL's COURT ISSUES STAY

[EtherMagic]

OK, I read all 27 pages...

So, does all this mean that the E-Cig can possibly be illegal as early as the end of this month???

Also, if the Judge rules in the FDA's favor, how long would we have until the law takes effects? Would the law go into effect the second the Judge rules down his decision? Or is there a process involved?

I'm just looking at how much possible time I have just in-case the worst happens, I'm already sorting out how much money I will be taking out of my checks for stock-piling.

P.S. You would think there would have been some research on E-Cigs readily available from a UK source/science lab, as they are very popular there and I never hear anything about a bann from them.

Thanks

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

There is no law, a ruling in favor of the FDA would just validate actions already taken by the FDA (in the form of blocking/seizing imports) and give them freedom to go ahead and continue those actions in the future. It's not that there would be a law saying "Electronic cigarettes are now illegal", it's that there is ALREADY a law saying that any new drug delivery device must be approved by the FDA before it can be imported, marketed, or sold in the US. The FDA argues that the e-cig falls under this law.

 

[EtherMagic]

There is no law, a ruling in favor of the FDA would just validate actions already taken by the FDA (in the form of blocking/seizing imports) and give them freedom to go ahead and continue those actions in the future. It's not that there would be a law saying "Electronic cigarettes are now illegal", it's that there is ALREADY a law saying that any new drug delivery device must be approved by the FDA before it can be imported, marketed, or sold in the US. The FDA argues that the e-cig falls under this law.

That's what I was thinking, because SE actually brought this case to court themselves, so even after this case is ruled on, the smaller company's, like Sharp Smoke for example would still be able to get there imports in as they order by small quantity.

I read an article that said the FDA is mainly stopping the shipments of the 3 biggest distributors here in the U.S. , my small orders get through no problem.

So, this case is totally separate from any kind of ban, it's simply a lawsuit.

Just wondering why everyone on here is talking about a ban so much on this thread? The FDA seems to be satisfied just ceasing the shipments of the big folks. I have read nothing about a total ban being improvised anytime soon (Being illegal to where the cops can arrest you for smoking one in public) as far as legal articles are concerned.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

You're misinterpreting - I did the same thing for a bit. The "ban" isn't really a declared ban on electronic cigarettes. There is already a ban on unapproved products, and the electronic cigarette falls into that category, according to the FDA. If the case swings in favor of the FDA, it doesn't matter who is trying to import them, they are unapproved and therefore cannot be imported. By anyone. Until they are approved.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

That's what I was thinking, because SE actually brought this case to court themselves, so even after this case is ruled on, the smaller company's, like Sharp Smoke for example would still be able to get there imports in as they order by small quantity.

I read an article that said the FDA is mainly stopping the shipments of the 3 biggest distributors here in the U.S. , my small orders get through no problem.

So, this case is totally separate from any kind of ban, it's simply a lawsuit.

Just wondering why everyone on here is talking about a ban so much on this thread? The FDA seems to be satisfied just ceasing the shipments of the big folks. I have read nothing about a total ban being improvised anytime soon (Being illegal to where the cops can arrest you for smoking one in public) as far as legal articles are concerned.

That is not the case--If the Court rules that the FDA has not exceeded it authority, it's embargo will be sanctioned by the Court for all importers ---not just these two compaines. The ruling is not limited in it's scope.

Sun

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I'd be surprised if there were any action taken on the ecigs themselves; they'll want to regulate the liquid for sure - and tax the livin crap out of it.

Before I quit cigarettes, I was going to roll my own to avoid the taxes - I guess I wasn't the only one thinking that way - the federal gov't raised the tax on loose tobacco from $1.19/lb to over $20.00 a lb (figures may not be EXACT, but that is not a typo).

They will tax the liquid to make it just as costly as smoking cigarettes - or as close as they can. They do NOT want people to quit cigarettes - far too much lost revenue.

Vj--Please read the whole thread here as the FDA is going after the device and the e-liquid. It is reported right here and in the Court Pleadings---Thanks

Sun

 

[nitewriter]

Sorry to continue the derailing Sun, but people should also consider that DHL is already refusing shipments of e-cigs, and others could soon follow suit based on this ruling. If USPS or UPS were next, how can some be so confident their parcels would still make it through?

Because it hasn't happened yet, does not mean that it won't or can't once Judge Leon makes his ruling. These companies will not risk their licenses to deliver our goodies.

 

[TropicalBob]

I don't have the link handy, but the FDA has a page listing confiscations of unapproved and mislabeled products. Atop that page is an explainer and it says in no uncertain language that there is a misperception that individual orders will get through. That is not the case at all, the FDA says. EVERY order, no matter how small or by whom, will be illegal.

And the FDA knows which companies send e-smoking products.

That same page says packages do NOT need to be opened by field inspectors. Just confiscate it and notify the intended buyer.

I don't understand how blase' some can be -- with an attitude that we'll just keep getting 'em from China. It's like .. what part of illegal do you not understand?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sorry to continue the derailing Sun, but people should also consider that DHL is already refusing shipments of e-cigs, and others could soon follow suit based on this ruling. If USPS or UPS were next, how can some be so confident their parcels would still make it through?

Because it hasn't happened yet, does not mean that it won't or can't once Judge Leon makes his ruling. These companies will not risk their licenses to deliver our goodies.

Nitewriter--that is correct. You are talking about huge shipping companies that are not going to touch these should the embargo stand. No lose to them as e-cigs is just a speck of sand on the beach when it comes to the shipping industry that all have their licenses on the line--Judge Leon really needs more to hang his hate on.

Sun

 

[Bones]

If your concern is about doing something illegal, then you shouldn't do it.

Wally

It wouldn't even really be illegal - just frowned upon in an official way - This is not a Law we're talking about - It is a Regulation - If caught - You wouldn't be charged with anything - They'd just take your stuff and then you try again - Nobody's gonna be doing time for E-Juice!

 

[UptownRiot]

Exactly! And ironically, they really rely on those taxes. They want us to quit and keep raising taxes to "make" us do it, but if we all suddenly quit, the states wouldn't know where to get the extra money. Right now Washington state receives around $550 million per year in tobacco tax revenue. Smokers "give" the state 1/2 a billion dollars per year! You would think they would treat us a little better.

CoderGuy

A conversation I'd love to get into. Sadly, this thread has been severely derailed from it's intended purpose. I don't want Sun to start thinking we aren't grateful for the updates.

 

[CoderGuy]

A conversation I'd love to get into. Sadly, this thread has been severely derailed from it's intended purpose. I don't want Sun to start thinking we aren't grateful for the updates.

I completely agree. I have tried as much as possible to refrain from doing that here for the exact same reason, sorry Sun

CoderGuy

 

[TheKingOfKool]

SUN can you make a new thread and lock it so that only you can post on it? i'm tired of reading all these off topic posts on here when it should only concern the SE vs. FDA case

 

[Sun Vaporer]

SUN can you make a new thread and lock it so that only you can post on it? i'm tired of reading all these off topic posts on here when it should only concern the SE vs. FDA case

I completely agree. I have tried as much as possible to refrain from doing that here for the exact same reason, sorry Sun

CoderGuy

Ok--as we do not what to inhibit conversation about the case, we are going to move all the off topic conversation that is not about the case over to the cloesd thread so it still is availiable. We encourage conversation about the case, and other conversations are just as relevent, but they get in the way of people trying to bring themselves up to speed.

Hopefully that will do it. The OT posts will be moved here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-everywhere-v-fda-daily-off-topic-posts.html
Sun

 

[BigJimW]

Hopefully that will do it. The OT posts will be moved here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...everywhere-vs-fda-off-topic-conversation.html

Sun

Not to be a duck or anything, (d*ck is censored) but can that thread be unlocked for replies? It's great you want to do housekeeping, can't blame ya, but tossing all responses in a locked trash bin is, well, rather not nice.

It's a hotbed of discussion and needs an unlocked outlet. Here is the only thread that addresses a real legal issue. We need a real place to respond.

 

[tvujec]

Not to be a **** or anything, but can that thread be unlocked for replies? It's great you want to do housekeeping, can't blame ya, but tossing all responses in a locked trash bin is, well, rather not nice.

It's a hotbed of discussion and needs an unlocked outlet. Here is the only thread that addresses a real legal issue. We need a real place to respond.

Agreed. Sun, perhaps you should close the sticky thread, and use it only for your updates. The rest of us can continue discussion in the other thread.

Hmm, having said that, this particular forum seems to exist to discuss news and media reports about ecigs. "Law and E-cigarette" forum seems more suitable to discuss this particular case.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Not to be a **** or anything, but can that thread be unlocked for replies? It's great you want to do housekeeping, can't blame ya, but tossing all responses in a locked trash bin is, well, rather not nice.

It's a hotbed of discussion and needs an unlocked outlet. Here is the only thread that addresses a real legal issue. We need a real place to respond.

Big Jim--You must have not refreshed your browser--it is unlocked.

Sun

 

[BigJimW]

Big Jim--You must have not refreshed your browser--it is unlocked.

Sun

How refreshing.

Sun, again thanks for keeping us all up to speed on the situation. Now lets get back on topic.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

How refreshing.

Sun, again thanks for keeping us all up to speed on the situation. Now lets get back on topic.

No Problem Jim and I will be posting the update tonight as we do have reply from SE --just waiting to see if it is further updated and will post around 11PM tonight---Thanks all

Sun

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Today the Court granted leave for SE to file a Reply to the Reply Brief filed by the FDA.
　


Sun