So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[frankie1]

Interesting. I had it pictured more like an additive to existing nic liquids. It may be a case that heat from vaporization destroys it and must stay in it's liquid form. I'll try to keep an eye on this, should it hit the market. Oh boy, here I go, again. New puchase, disposable at that. $$$. Still a trapped rat.

It might not be needed. If the lobelia works in ingested form, maybe just take a pill or make some tea and keep vaping! I would be really careful though because it seems very potent. I just put the link in so we could read it. I am going to try my very best to beat the beast without adding anything else into the mix. My nuclear stress test is Monday and the echo is Tuesday. Those two things should give me the info on my heart. A compromised heart on either test should get the doc visit moved up. If no change in 11/25 apt., I am going with the assumption that all is OK. Besides, I have a contact at that practice and can get the info early!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Yeh, a pill or tea is more along my thinking. Really, I think we're both playing in the same ballpark. My reason for not smoking was to get away from all the nasties. Mission accomplished, but I also don't like the thought of having to take a suitcase full of suppliments everyday to retain my humanistic behavior simulation stratagy program that worked so well while smoking cigarettes. That said, if I should try this it'll be as minimal as needed. If it works at all.

 

[frankie1]

TV: Are those your two boys in the pic? If so, man hang in there for them! Take it from a grandma who knows.....you are going to want to be here and HEALTHY for the grankids! Please, lets don't either one give up!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

frankie1, hope they tell you not to come back unless something's wrong with you.

 

[frankie1]

Thanks TV...I am hoping they tell me I am a hypochondriac! LOL

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

2 somewhere in the middle of 7. They don't have names, though. Numbers are easier to remember, ha ha. We also have 4 grandkids and one more due in January. Yeh, I'm looking forward to the day I'm able to remind my kids all the things they told me they'd do if they were the parents. Kinda warm and fuzzy.

 

[Vaporer]

A minimum of tools is the best. All we really want is to feel normal with the least things associated with it as possible. Stress is a big enemy as it kicks down old hardened doors easily. One should always keep an eye out for a tool that has more than one function. It can't be a crusade as that is likely to lead to failure and we know where that road goes.

frankie1, I had my 1st echo, 2nd is a bubble echo the 18th. Some saline put in for better contrast. Seems there is a possibility of an odd right to left shunt(small or hiding) that lets the output loop back to the input. The harder I go, the slower I go. They say its the only possible answer left.
If so, I should vape, constrict my blood vessels and heart, so that engine wil put out some horsepower!

I thought I was just getting old. lol

 

[frankie1]

Goodness Vaporer...that sounds not good! My hubby had mitral valve replacement about 7 years ago. He had rheumatic fever when he was a child and the resulting leaky valve finally caught up to him. His doctors were great and he is doing well. They are able to do amazing things with the heart these days! I'm going to the same group but hoping they will just say I am full of BS!

 

[Vaporer]

At this point in life, they are gonna be hard pressed to impress me. lol
Someone is always worse, don't have to look far.

It would be cool to vape nasal nic. It may have a compound that wont vaporize well or at a high tmp......need to ask the chemists on that one. Ill check out the contents, but still ask. Heating things can make new things...some not so good. Better safe than sorry.

I still invision a flavored nasal spray or oral pump flavored spray. Obsessed! Not good. lol
You would have thought when they made Nicotrol it could ahve been taloried to not fry the nasal passages. It would at least have a little more appeal. Flavored? OMG I forgot, the kids!

 

[IANAN]

frankie1 & Twisted,

Have you considered Lobelia? It's sold at GNC and most homoeopathic stores.
It comes in capsules taken orally.

"An active ingredient in the lobelia plant, lobeline, is similar to nicotine in its effect on the body. Like nicotine, it stimulates nerves in the central nervous system. For this reason, lobeline was once used as a nicotine substitute in many anti-smoking products and preparations designed to break the smoking habit"

Another source: Lobeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It addresses dopamine issues also.

Lobeline

Might be another tool for your kits. I doubt many kits will look alike.
You have to love the Dr's that take the holier than thou attitude and never had the problem.

Remember that any analog avoided is better than what you had.

It's Indian Tobacco (It's common name).... Has a lot of nasty side effects... Probably worse for you than tobacco. And yes the lozenges didn't work... Tried those I think the first or second time I quit smoking. It has several homeopathic uses- such as it's original use to treat asthma.

 

[DVap]

I keep plugging along with experiments.

Do not try anything described here yourself. Unless you've got the background, you don't know how. If you guess, you'll guess wrong. I'm keeping the particulars purposefully vague. This simply isn't something for amateurs.

Yesterday, I picked up 200 grams of Stokkebye Danish Export tobacco, basically a blend of Virginia tobacco. I set 100 grams aside, and did some extraction/purification work on the other 100 grams. I really wasn't working hard for a high extraction efficiency, more for a pure isolation of the whole spread of tobacco alkaloids. Even at that, I managed maybe 0.75 grams of tobacco alkaloids, which I suspect is somewhere in the 35 - 45% recovery range. The extract is currently being solvent-stripped in a manner that precludes any organic solvent remaining in the extract. if you're going to use organic solvents, you'd best know how to get rid of organic solvents... completely. At the current volume in solvent (100 mL), the alkaloid mixture is crystal clear. This should give you an idea how little material remains from the original 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of tobacco. I expect the concentrated alkaloids to be pale yellow.

Assuming 0.75 grams is what I end up with, I will be adding 24.3 mL of 50/50 USP PG/VG, resulting in a liquid that is 30 mg/mL in total tobacco alkaloids (and perhaps 27 mg/mL in nicotine proper, assuming the alkaloid spread is ~90% nicotine).

It is not the ~27 mg/mL nicotine that interests me, but rather the ~3 mg/mL of all the other alkaloids. We get these other alkaloids in trace amounts (compared to nicotine) when we smoke analogs after all.

The end result will be 25 mL of an e-liquid that's 50/50 PG/VG and 30 mg/mL in the whole spectrum of tobacco alkaloids. The only other way I know to get this full spectrum of alkaloids is either to smoke analogs or to use oral or nasal tobacco products.

 

[DVap]

You might be asking, "Why are you doing this?".

Well, I'm not interested in becoming a producer or supplier of "full tobacco alkaloid" e-liquids, this is more a proof of concept.

If it turns out that I'm onto something here, and "FTA" e-liquid is effective for those folks who aren't getting what they need from regular e-liquid, then perhaps a demand for such a liquid will develop. I've never seen a demand that somebody won't step up to meet if there's a dollar in it somewhere.

I might hope that people smarter than me might pick this up and run with it on the producer-side (while fearing that people dumber than me might pick it up and run with it as well!)

I'm just working the idea around and seeing if I might be able to prove the concept via some experimentation, somebody else can deal with the FDA headaches and such.

[sarcasm] "What? Produce a liquid that keeps people happily hooked!? How dare you! That's what cigarettes are for!" [/sarcasm]

 

[Vaporer]

DVap, if I were at your house, I don't know who to expect to be at the door when the knocking comes, FDA, BT, BP, NSA........8-o

 

[DVap]

DVap, if I were at your house, I don't know who to expect to be at the door when the knocking comes, FDA, BT, BP, NSA........8-o

They can either kill me or hand me a suitcase full of cash.. either way, I'll shut up.

 

[frankie1]

DVap: Is it you theory that the other alkaloids have been stripped from eliquid but yours should have them? Will you then chemically identify them? This all sounds pretty darn terrifying to me! Please, be careful....OK Mom coming out in me....

 

[kinabaloo]

DVap: Is it you theory that the other alkaloids have been stripped from eliquid but yours should have them? Will you then chemically identify them? This all sounds pretty darn terrifying to me! Please, be careful....OK Mom coming out in me....

Whatever alkaloids are there, were all in tobacco.

It was a wrong turn for people to have focussed on just the one alkaloid (for many years); even if it is the most prevalent, it's not necessarily the most important. Ok, nic might have the greatest effect (at least, taking people as a whole), but the others are likely very effective co-factors (especially for some, at least).

That DVap can easily tell these apart, by aroma, TH, and perhaps even greater satiation, is really encouraging; if not indeed exciting!

 

[DVap]

DVap: Is it you theory that the other alkaloids have been stripped from eliquid but yours should have them? Will you then chemically identify them? This all sounds pretty darn terrifying to me! Please, be careful....OK Mom coming out in me....

Frankie, like kin mentioned, these have always been in the tobacco we smoked for years and years.

One way to look at it... I spent a total of 19 years putting down 1.5 packs/day and smoking 2/3rd's of the way down, at 1 gram of tobacco per analog... that's 300 pounds of tobacco I've smoked in my lifetime, but I only got 4 ounces of alkaloids for all that effort. That's right, 19 years and 300 pounds of tobacco to get a quarter pound of alkaloids (and most of the alkaloids in the tobacco went up in smoke).

A good argument for cutting out the middleman, no?

I don't make a point of trying to sniff residues of concentrated tobacco alkaloids. Nicotine by itself has a rotten fish odor (like extremely dilute pyridine), but it is not particularly penetrating. a residue of a few dozen mg of the total alkaloids is much stronger, more penetrating, and even a bit lachrymatory (stuff burns in the nose and makes your eyes water!). Clearly, the roughly 10% of the alkaloids that aren't nicotine pack a wallop.

 

[kinabaloo]

Frankie, like kin mentioned, these have always been in the tobacco we smoked for years and years.

One way to look at it... I spent a total of 19 years putting down 1.5 packs/day and smoking 2/3rd's of the way down, at 1 gram of tobacco per analog... that's 300 pounds of tobacco I've smoked in my lifetime, but I only got 4 ounces of alkaloids for all that effort. That's right, 19 years and 300 pounds of tobacco to get a quarter pound of alkaloids (and most of the alkaloids in the tobacco went up in smoke).

A good argument for cutting out the middleman, no?

I don't make a point of trying to sniff residues of concentrated tobacco alkaloids. Nicotine by itself has a rotten fish odor (like extremely dilute pyridine), but it is not particularly penetrating. a residue of a few dozen mg of the total alkaloids is much stronger, more penetrating, and even a bit lachrymatory (stuff burns in the nose and makes your eyes water!). Clearly, the roughly 10% of the alkaloids that aren't nicotine pack a wallop.

To re-raise my bread analogy, the idea that white flour was a better, purer product turned out to be far from true (just starch, with nearly all the vitamins chucked away). Producing clean e-liquid twith all the alkaloids and not the other stuff should be no extra hurdle - just a very small change, in regulatory terms; so as long as it tests out ok, no issue. In fact, it will in tests of effectiveness, prove a winner.

 

[four2109]

I just have to change the subject for a second to hopefully get an informed opinion... I think I am in the right place for that. DVAP, you are on it with the 2.5 calc. I upped mine and still used the same amount of nic, less juice. Pretty amazing.
I hope you don't mind a quick off topic question, I just really dont want to hear; "It's all good, it's in food and toothpaste, just buy a screwdriver, go to 6 volts, switch to VG, check out the straw mod....."

Cheap feed store PG that is "USP" but labeled "FOR ANIMAL USE ONLY":

Does "USP" indicate purity, or just that it is "x" and may have other garbage in it and your cows won't know the difference, so just use it for the animals that you intend to put into the food supply... ?

Sorry for the interuption, I just thought I might get a more informed opinion here. I picked up a gallon but the odor was so strong when I opened it that I became concerned. It may just be the volume that made it seem strong....
Any thoughts?
Thanks,

 

[Stubby]

Jeez DVap, you did have to mention Danish export. That was one of my favorite smokes. I had a rather intense flashback of some good memories. Oh well... I'm over it now.

A question, how is the extraction method used for getting the full spectrum of alkaloids out of tobacco different from just getting the nicotine out? Of course I wouldn't try this stuff in a million years. My knowledge of chemistry doesn't go much beyond knowing the elements of water. But I'm curious.