Tetsab there is a new vendor claiming he has a chemist that can make it but we are a little leary of it. Myself, I wouldn't try it until Dvap got a sample to test. Who knows how clean their end product is.
So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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Well, I've left the guy a message at his ID on one of the other forums suggesting how he might help gain folks' confidence, and also offered to take a look at a mL or two of his concentrated product for the purpose of hopefully being able to tell everyone he's the real thing. Possibly not my business to interject into his business, but I've been hearing rumblings (couple spots in the forums and via a few PM's) that a lot of folks want my opinion of his WTA (which I cannot give without seeing it) to hopefully find out he's OK. It's been a few days and I've had no response from the guy, which means either that he's not monitoring that forum account, or he's decided hell with DVap and he'll go it alone without trying to get my seal of approval.
I find most of the things he says plausible, however, he did come up with some less than correct comment that his WTA is somehow different than mine and he wants to call it "TEA" or tobacco extracted alkaloids (Listen up... it's WTA, not TEA, got it?) on the basis that tobacco when smoked does alter the alkaloid profile. The comment is wrong or at least misguided since I'm not saying that WTA represents the same profile as smoked tobacco... it is more accurately more like snus (as is his, presumably) and the term "WTA" does not refer to smoked tobacco, but rather the alkaloid profile extracted from whole tobacco.
If I have a general objection to his efforts to market a WTA, it's simply that in his pitch he invoked my name and work, kinda thanking me for laying the groundwork, but not so much as sending me a PM here to say, "I'm picking up the ball and running with it, thanks for the idea"... and as such appears to be trying to free-ride a measure of credibility based on someone else's (my) work. If he would have simply marketed it and made no reference to me, I would have actually been happier since I don't own this whole concept and he would be free to succeed or fail on his own merit.
So, in short, he might be competent and have a good WTA. He doesn't actually have to get in touch with me... his stuff could be so good that the folks who do give him a chance rave about it, and it might take off on it's own. On the other hand, you all should know that I'm not egotistical, and I hope I never come off that way, and that being said, he could certainly do himself a favor by making the effort to get my blessing since with that blessing, he'd be armpit deep in requests for his stuff due to the credibility gained via the blessing of someone (me) who (I hope) people trust.
I find most of the things he says plausible, however, he did come up with some less than correct comment that his WTA is somehow different than mine and he wants to call it "TEA" or tobacco extracted alkaloids (Listen up... it's WTA, not TEA, got it?) on the basis that tobacco when smoked does alter the alkaloid profile. The comment is wrong or at least misguided since I'm not saying that WTA represents the same profile as smoked tobacco... it is more accurately more like snus (as is his, presumably) and the term "WTA" does not refer to smoked tobacco, but rather the alkaloid profile extracted from whole tobacco.
If I have a general objection to his efforts to market a WTA, it's simply that in his pitch he invoked my name and work, kinda thanking me for laying the groundwork, but not so much as sending me a PM here to say, "I'm picking up the ball and running with it, thanks for the idea"... and as such appears to be trying to free-ride a measure of credibility based on someone else's (my) work. If he would have simply marketed it and made no reference to me, I would have actually been happier since I don't own this whole concept and he would be free to succeed or fail on his own merit.
So, in short, he might be competent and have a good WTA. He doesn't actually have to get in touch with me... his stuff could be so good that the folks who do give him a chance rave about it, and it might take off on it's own. On the other hand, you all should know that I'm not egotistical, and I hope I never come off that way, and that being said, he could certainly do himself a favor by making the effort to get my blessing since with that blessing, he'd be armpit deep in requests for his stuff due to the credibility gained via the blessing of someone (me) who (I hope) people trust.
I trust you too Dvap and like I said before, there's no way I'd try this guy's WTA liquid without you testing it. From what I have seen of him so far I don't know that I'd buy any regular liquids from him either.
Folks, turns out that our potential WTA marketer was laid up for awhile after an auto accident.
I'm not holding any lateness of getting in touch with me against him.. after all, he could do all this without any of my input if he wished. If I've come off as negative toward him (maybe a little), it was mostly a sign of frustration at being asked by folks either on the forum of via PM about his product and having nothing I could say one way or another.
He indeed would like to get my "blessing", and we're dancing around the concerns he was with confidentially and all that currently. I expect to be able to evaluate his product soon enough, and report my (hopefully positive) impressions.
I'm not holding any lateness of getting in touch with me against him.. after all, he could do all this without any of my input if he wished. If I've come off as negative toward him (maybe a little), it was mostly a sign of frustration at being asked by folks either on the forum of via PM about his product and having nothing I could say one way or another.
He indeed would like to get my "blessing", and we're dancing around the concerns he was with confidentially and all that currently. I expect to be able to evaluate his product soon enough, and report my (hopefully positive) impressions.
I am sorry to hear that he was injured in an auto accident. I guess that some of my suspicion came from his lack of contact with you. It will be good to hear your opinion on the quality of the liquid. Even if it is all that it is promised to be I don't know that I would use a lot of it. I have kind of found my happy spot with snus but it would be good to have a little on hand for those times of need.
Well, interesting news - thankyou, Hittman and DVap.
Would it be giving anything away to disclose the name (or nickname) of the potential vendor? If it has already been mentioned in another public forum I'm just interested, it might even be someone I 'know' or at least know of! I too hope he is recovering from his injuries.
Sadly, I rather suspect that I fall into DVap's Third Quartile - and as I'm also unfortunately a depression sufferer who probably self-medicated with cigarettes for over three decades I too would love to be able to know it was possible to replace that missing 'something' that vaping alone does not seem to provide. I get days when no matter how much I vape I just can't get satisfaction from it and dislike the fact that I feel I'm abusing the equipment and probably taking in more nicotine than is really good for me at the same time. Other days I seem to manage pretty much OK - it keeps me off the dread weed, anyway!
I did try snus some years back, way before I ever even heard of e-cigs, but did not get on with it at all. Perhaps I should give snuff a try - there's just some reluctance to get involved with tobacco again in any form having finally shaken it off.
Would it be giving anything away to disclose the name (or nickname) of the potential vendor? If it has already been mentioned in another public forum I'm just interested, it might even be someone I 'know' or at least know of! I too hope he is recovering from his injuries.
Sadly, I rather suspect that I fall into DVap's Third Quartile - and as I'm also unfortunately a depression sufferer who probably self-medicated with cigarettes for over three decades I too would love to be able to know it was possible to replace that missing 'something' that vaping alone does not seem to provide. I get days when no matter how much I vape I just can't get satisfaction from it and dislike the fact that I feel I'm abusing the equipment and probably taking in more nicotine than is really good for me at the same time. Other days I seem to manage pretty much OK - it keeps me off the dread weed, anyway!
I did try snus some years back, way before I ever even heard of e-cigs, but did not get on with it at all. Perhaps I should give snuff a try - there's just some reluctance to get involved with tobacco again in any form having finally shaken it off.
The new vendor is vapelicious. I vape,snus, and snuff. The snuff is an almost instant nic hit for me. It acts much quicker than vape or snus. I can understand your reluctance and never thought I would try or like snuff but I do. I don't use that much of it but when I do then I truly enjoy it.
I've not been idle lately.
I made a batch of WTA using rustica as the source tobacco. Rustica is known for having a higher harmala alkaloid profile than tabaccum, and the resulting e-liquid does seem to be really mellowing stuff. I was a little surprised that the rustica wasn't as potent as it's reputed to be, but still it out-yielded my favorite NAS tobacco by a good 40%. I've got some South American rustica on order, and when it comes, look out!
I've also got an ounce of tree tobacco (nicotiana glauca) on order. This is interesting stuff because it doesn't really contain much nicotine, it's loaded with, wait for it... anatabine. I expect to get maybe 300 mg of purified and isolated anatabine out of the tree tobacco. I can then add this anatabine to ~400 mL of regular 24 mg nicotine e-liquid resulting in a 24 mg eliquid that has a 97/3 nicotine/anatabine ratio.
The question to be answered is simple... would a 97/3 nicotine/anatabine liquid at 24 mg provide an experience similar to WTA? Or to put it another way, is there a synergy between nicotine and anatabine?
Edit: forget all this, I'm an idiot. Glauca contains anabasine, not anatabine. I'll not be doing anything with the tree tobacco except maybe sniff it to see what it smells like.
I made a batch of WTA using rustica as the source tobacco. Rustica is known for having a higher harmala alkaloid profile than tabaccum, and the resulting e-liquid does seem to be really mellowing stuff. I was a little surprised that the rustica wasn't as potent as it's reputed to be, but still it out-yielded my favorite NAS tobacco by a good 40%. I've got some South American rustica on order, and when it comes, look out!
I've also got an ounce of tree tobacco (nicotiana glauca) on order. This is interesting stuff because it doesn't really contain much nicotine, it's loaded with, wait for it... anatabine. I expect to get maybe 300 mg of purified and isolated anatabine out of the tree tobacco. I can then add this anatabine to ~400 mL of regular 24 mg nicotine e-liquid resulting in a 24 mg eliquid that has a 97/3 nicotine/anatabine ratio.
The question to be answered is simple... would a 97/3 nicotine/anatabine liquid at 24 mg provide an experience similar to WTA? Or to put it another way, is there a synergy between nicotine and anatabine?
Edit: forget all this, I'm an idiot. Glauca contains anabasine, not anatabine. I'll not be doing anything with the tree tobacco except maybe sniff it to see what it smells like.
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This stuff is so interesting. I am ridiculously curious to learn what you discover, DVap.
Have you heard anything new from Voldemort about sending you a sample of his commercial WTA?
If you need a guinea pig just say the word. I would of course have to lay off the snus for a while to see the real effects of the new anatabine mix. Perhaps some 30 or 32mg would better fit me though. I have some 100mg nic that I could use to bump it up myself. I think it's great that you are still trying different things.
It appears to me that he has chosen to not acknowledge the ball you put into his court. To me it is an unwise decision as the followers of this thread and the people that know you will most likely not do business with him without your seal of approval. I know I won't. His choice of not providing you with a sample to analyze is a mistake and makes me even more distrustful. He has yet to answer my post on the other forum also.
Scratch all that. Glauca contains anabasine, not anatabine. I have no desire to mess with anabasine.
I'd have to crush up a bunch of CigRX to get anatabine... then there's still the yerba mate alkaloids that I couldn't get rid of. Not going there.
I hate it when I get ahead of myself. This is why it's a good idea to double check your work!
I'd have to crush up a bunch of CigRX to get anatabine... then there's still the yerba mate alkaloids that I couldn't get rid of. Not going there.
I hate it when I get ahead of myself. This is why it's a good idea to double check your work!
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hittman, you're probably more critical than I am on this one.
There's a good bit of trust that goes into any eliquid purchase. Where did the PG/VG come from? Where did the nicotine come from? Where did the flavorings come from? Is that 18 mg liquid really 18 mg liquid?
I am generally approving of what I can see from his WTA, but that final bit of certainty is missing. Studying the photo he posted, it looks about like I expect it should. I don't encourage anyone to try his product, neither do I discourage it... and if he does have a good product, he'll eventually succeed with or without my blessing.
There's a good bit of trust that goes into any eliquid purchase. Where did the PG/VG come from? Where did the nicotine come from? Where did the flavorings come from? Is that 18 mg liquid really 18 mg liquid?
I am generally approving of what I can see from his WTA, but that final bit of certainty is missing. Studying the photo he posted, it looks about like I expect it should. I don't encourage anyone to try his product, neither do I discourage it... and if he does have a good product, he'll eventually succeed with or without my blessing.
Voldemort seemed to be a good substitute, since we aren't using his real nick. It is not meant to imply anything about him or his product.
Dvap, I didn't care for that guy's approach from the beginning. I didn't like that he wanted to make people buy samples and then give him free research info. Many vendors do contests and stuff like that when they first get started to get their products and name out there. He wanted people to blindly pay for it and then report back to him. I'm pretty sure that I saw that he has a forum or thread on here somewhere. I'm not going to try to cause problems for him but kind of doubt that I'll ever buy from him. Not to mention I think he specializes in sweet flavor mixes and I don't like most sweet liquids.
When I first started using 510's, I did a ton of research about what users were realistically "feeling" from any concentration of nic juice versus their analog experiences. It definitely is a different animal, and at first I was very skeptical because of the lack of "buzz" factor, which is usually attributed to all the other toxins and oxygen deprivation that goes along with an analog - including the lethargy, coughing and sick feeling lol.
This is what I've found from my experience: There's an adjustment period, but the e liquids do deliver an effect and will be a worthy, satisfying substitute. I do need a small amount of nic in my juice to stop cravings and to use when I'm stressed, everyone's different, but for me it's only 6 - 8 mg. When I tried to vape 0mg, I wasn't getting satisfied... and started feeling irritated with cravings, essentially like withdrawal and I'd be sucking my PV to death. I would actually prefer to vape 0mg and I never thought I was really addicted to nicotine, but rather to the habit and process of having something to fiddle with - but my experience has proved otherwise.
If you are new to vaping, please don't give up. Find some juices you like, and hit them hard during the first few weeks of adjustment. After that time, you will find the vaping experience satisfying.
This is what I've found from my experience: There's an adjustment period, but the e liquids do deliver an effect and will be a worthy, satisfying substitute. I do need a small amount of nic in my juice to stop cravings and to use when I'm stressed, everyone's different, but for me it's only 6 - 8 mg. When I tried to vape 0mg, I wasn't getting satisfied... and started feeling irritated with cravings, essentially like withdrawal and I'd be sucking my PV to death. I would actually prefer to vape 0mg and I never thought I was really addicted to nicotine, but rather to the habit and process of having something to fiddle with - but my experience has proved otherwise.
If you are new to vaping, please don't give up. Find some juices you like, and hit them hard during the first few weeks of adjustment. After that time, you will find the vaping experience satisfying.
I was lucky enough to be able to try pure WTA thanks to DVap. The taste was fabulous and the effect was a huge improvement over regular nic-only e-liquid. I believe there would be a market for WTA e-liquid if it would be produced by some manufacturer.
I've been hesitant to post my opinions for a couple of reasons. One is just admitting that I've been smoking a little lately to the many gung-ho vapers on this forum. Oh well. I lasted over a year on just snus and e-liquid and that's huge in my world. I reached success for that long due to snus, for sure. Of course I like to vape, too. Being able to compare the effects of my snus/e-liquid combo to WTA and then to analogs also was rather interesting for me. Vaping tastes so much better than cigarettes do! But cigarettes give me something that none of the other combinations do. Who knows what? WTA is better than e-liquid. Snus/vaping together is enough to keep one off cigarettes if they are brave and strong. It's possible that being able to purchase WTA retail and combine it with snus would make it even easier. But pure WTA is still lacking some little thing in my opinion.
I've been hesitant to post my opinions for a couple of reasons. One is just admitting that I've been smoking a little lately to the many gung-ho vapers on this forum. Oh well. I lasted over a year on just snus and e-liquid and that's huge in my world. I reached success for that long due to snus, for sure. Of course I like to vape, too. Being able to compare the effects of my snus/e-liquid combo to WTA and then to analogs also was rather interesting for me. Vaping tastes so much better than cigarettes do! But cigarettes give me something that none of the other combinations do. Who knows what? WTA is better than e-liquid. Snus/vaping together is enough to keep one off cigarettes if they are brave and strong. It's possible that being able to purchase WTA retail and combine it with snus would make it even easier. But pure WTA is still lacking some little thing in my opinion.
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