So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[hittman]

BCB don't worry about the slip. You'll get back on track when you're ready. I used to nearly drive myself into depression over slipping back to smoking a little. The WTA is a huge improvement over regular liquids. It gives a more realistic feel and taste to me. I don't know for sure but perhaps part of what seems like it is still missing is that it is still being vaped and you don't get the instant rush like you do from a cigarette. As far as the brave/strong thing, I must not be. I have yet to go a full year without a slip. For me snus is what works the best. I still like to vape but it has become more of a physical thing than a satisfaction thing for me. I can sit and chain vape 24-36mg liquid for quite some time before I really feel much of an effect. I have no doubt that if I had not found out about snus that I would have been back to smoking full time a long time ago. I envy the people that vaping alone works for.

 

[BCB]

Yeah, snus makes all the difference for sure. I, too, would be smoking full time without snus. I agree that the "instant rush" is one of the things one misses about cigarettes. I was thinking, too, that the fact that there is a definitive "end" to a cigarette is important. Like a period at the end of a sentence. Neither snus nor vaping gives you that punctuation mark that cigarettes give. Sounds stupid, but I think it has psychological value. When taking a break from painting my house yesterday while using snus throughout, vaping a little was not as wonderful of a present to myself as smoking was. Know what I mean?

I DO feel NONE of the panic and anxiety I used to feel when "cheating" during an attempt to quit like happened in the past. I feel in control still, thanks to vaping and snus and that's just wonderful compared to the way it was before.

 

[hittman]

BCB I know exactly what you are talking about with the no end thing. I have struggled with that from the very beginning. I'm glad you are feeling in control. It took me a long time to get to that point. I always felt like I was "cheating" and persecuted myself accordingly. It's been hell on me for the first year and a half of the last two years. I'm just now kind of feeling like I'm finding my happy place. Of course there was alot of excitement when I first started vaping and watched my cigarette intake dwindle down but after a little while of vaping alone my body was screaming for relief. The snus has been a tremendous help but I still want a smoke now and then.

 

[slopes]

I agree that the "instant rush" is one of the things one misses about cigarettes. I was thinking, too, that the fact that there is a definitive "end" to a cigarette is important. Like a period at the end of a sentence. Neither snus or vaping gives you that punctuation mark that cigarettes give.

I so agree with you on this. I'd much rather have a box of ten or twenty micro batteries - each with a 10 to 15 minute charge. They'd be small and very lightweight (like an analogue). Then, whenever I felt like a vape, I could just pull one out, attach the atty and get my traditional 10 minute fix. At this length of charge, you'd almost get away with using a super capacitor (which recharge in seconds) instead of a battery... it wish someone clever would make them.

 

[BCB]

Well, the micro battery would have to be manually crushed after the 10 to 15 minutes. Maybe if it had accordion-shaped sides which would fluff back up during charging??????

 

[Devilooman]

BCB I'm right there with you. I quit for over a year but lately have been smoking more and more (and still vaping!) I don't know what it is... the vaping helps to keep it down somewhat like I'm only smoking maybe 6-7 a day instead of a whole pack. I think I enjoy the break from whatever I'm doing and the end of it is important for that. It's just not the same even if I take my ecig outside and vape, lol. I chain vape so it's not like I really have an urge to smoke... it's just something to do to break up the day I think. I haven't tried snus but I've been thinking about it but realizing the above I don't really think it's a nicotine thing.

 

[hittman]

The thing with snus is that you get the alkaloids in tobacco that aren't in the liquids we vape. However, it's not the quick fix that smoking is. Alot of people talk about how smoking smells and tastes bad after quitting for a while. It never did to me.

 

[slopes]

Well, the micro battery would have to be manually crushed after the 10 to 15 minutes. Maybe if it had accordion-shaped sides which would fluff back up during charging??????

LOL. Psychologically, it is useful to have a 'container' for whatever is being consumed (here, WTA vapour - but this applies equally to food and drink). The container is not only to hold the substance in, but to set a personally satisfying limit to how much of it is enough in a single session. If the container is too small, we are left feeling dissatisfied. But if the container is too big we are prevented from relying on it to determine the beginning and end of the ritual of satisfying a desire. In other words, the desire (or appetite) is itself no longer contained by the amount of material available to use. This can be experienced as frustrating... and (against all apparent logic) there may be a strong urge to return to the satisfactions of using a limited, known container of the material (in this case - a cigarette).

This is the reason I don't like the large vaping devices with containers that carry huge quantities of juice. Although these may seem like an ideal solution to carefree vaping, they do, in fact, rob the owner of finding and using a 'beginning and end' to the process of satisfying a desire... and just as crucially, a beginning and end to the period of being without. When both these periods merge together, desire is lost - which is very frustrating (in food terms, this is often observed with people who constantly nibble, feel frustrated by doing so, and then nibble more to attempt to cheer themselves up... a vicious cycle).

My solution to this is dripping (or a dipping inversion). I've found that submerging an exposed commercial atty into juice, once, leaves it containing roughly an equal amount of juice/vapour to one analogue cigarette - before running dry. Although this process is far from perfect as a replacement for the contained ritual of smoking, it goes some way to being a good enough substitute. And refilling (or repriming) the atty provides its own satisfying little ritual... rather like rolling a cigarette or filling a pipe.

This important part of smoking replacement is often not thought about at all - but (in my opinion) it is a vital part of the success of any attempt. I even think a small wind-up dynamo e cigarette (which needed to be primed for 10 minute's use) would provide an experience far closer to that of real smoking than these ever larger capacity devices being sold for vaping.

 

[hittman]

slopes, I haven't tried it but saw where TB did a review of the ploom. The little pods last ten minutes or so which would fit the bill for what you have described. However since they are using real tobacco then who knows what you are getting when you use them. TB refilled some of the pods with snuff.

 

[Dharma]

Snus is something I can't handle in terms of the taste, overly strong rush and sick feeling I get. Where do you recommend getting WTA to vape with? - what does it add to the vape experience if you tried to describe it in words? Do you vape less?

I know what you mean about the lack of that 5 to 10 minute analog window that hits you hard when you need it. I've found that experimenting with a lot of juices I can come closer to a more intense vape versus more mellow ones. I really like fruit vapes for relaxing, but if I want something more intense I use coffee or strong chocolate/caramel type juices that are robust with more throat hit and dense vapors.

 

[JackSam]

Snus is something I can't handle in terms of the taste, overly strong rush and sick feeling I get. Where do you recommend getting WTA to vape with?

You can't really get WTA.
The short gist from this thread, dvap makes some, but he's a chemist and considers the process too dangerous and complex for laymen to even attempt without potentially killing themselves.

Personally I've tried taking a snus packet and soaking it in plain unflavored PG, and the results are good. Tastes just like the snus packet, and has a good kick to it. I don't know if there's any other alkoloids and such in it but the first time I vaped it with a 50/50 mix I didn't have desire to vape for a long long while after. Sometimes I'll just put a drop or 2 in another juice, comes out really nice. Downside is it dirties things up much quicker. I'm actually experimenting now with tobacco and getting a good flavor without while keeping the coils from getting so dirty.

 

[lynn30]

What I'd have to ask myself is when I accidently vape non stop for an hour on 18 mg juice, do i get sick because I THINK I am OD-ing on nicotine or because I did OD? I have to say that I have not yet found a juice that will not have the effect on me unless I dar to drop to 0 nic (which I'm not prepared for just yet).

 

[newcomer]

I would be interested to see a placebo test on WTA. There's another guy on the uk boards selling it, anyone knows if he's still around?

 

[kumquat]

I'm not finding vaping to be doing much for the itch. I've only been doing this for about a week, but I think I've only smoked maybe a single pack less in this week. I started off reducing much more, I guess just because of the novelty of it, but am back to nearly my regular cig quantity. I thought the issue, at first, was the missing MAOIs so I added passionflower to my juice. It made me feel a little stoned, but it also made me itchy, gave me a slight degree of throat swelling, and, as a natural abortifacient, it caused me to have breakthrough spotting on my birth control. So, now, I've tried 36mg/ml nic juice and I'm not finding that to do anything, but make me agitated. I am smoking slightly less because the action of vaping fulfills the hand to mouth ritual and I find it a convenient placebo for situations where it's impossible to smoke like in bars, etc., but it's not scratching my itch in the least. From these results, my guess is that I'm not actually terribly addicted to nicotine, but to one or a thousand of the additives in commercial tobacco. I'm not giving up on vaping, but I'm fairly disappointed at this point in time.

 

[hittman]

You might want to think about trying some snus if things don't improve for you. Snus contains the WTA's that liquids don't so it might help your chances of quitting considerably. That is if quitting completely is your goal. Some people like to still have a smoke here or there.

 

[Phayah]

Dvap, your posts are terrific. I've followed you in the other threads. Chemistry aside for a moment, the only bottom line for me is blood nicotine level and per puff nicotine delivery.

When e-smoking can move my blood nicotine level to what I had as a former 30-a-day cigarette smoker .. whoopee. Until then, I'm nicotine deprived as an e-smoker and get what I need from snus, nasal snuff, and disssolvables used at the same time as I vape 36mg liquid.

I have to agree with this. I've been vaping 36-48 mg liquid for about 2 years and I still haven't quit smoking. It is so obvious in the morning when my chest feels like it's caving in, I smoke a cigarette, and I'm fine. It cannot be vaped away, period. It will go away with time of course, but that happens regardless of whether or not I vape.

I have never gotten a buzz off vaping. I've never gotten nauseous from vaping too much. My heart rate and blood pressure do not increase when I vape. It's damn obvious when I smoke too much. I don't get a buzz but I get a little shakey and slight nausea. I'll get a buzz if I haven't smoked in a day or two, even if I vaped the entire time. When I smoke my heart rate is consistently over 100 and my blood pressure is slightly high.

Vaping mimics smoking better than anything out there. I've tried the nicotine inhalers and I have to say, they suck. They don't feel like a cigarette at all, not to mention, they look like a tampon. They burn all the way down. There is no throat hit or fullness and no smoke/vapor. It's very unpleasant.

I believe that e cigs are a very powerful placebo for most people. Whether or not the nicotine is helping I believe it is debatable. If the nicotine does help, I don't think it helps much. I think the placebo effect is doing most of the work.

I also believe that people who started smoking when their brains were still developing or their mothers' smoked while pregnant will have a harder time quitting. Both happened in my case. It is already known that many drugs/chemicals can alter brain chemistry/genes, particularly in a developing brain. These people will probably need an extra kick in the ... that vaping can't seem to deliver right now. Those who have ADHD have a more difficult time with nicotine due to the dopamine action and lack of self-control. I have ADHD. I'm going to need something very close to the real thing.

I think that there are too many unknown variables to try to put a number on this right now. I'm almost positive that, for myself, I'm barely getting any nicotine and I'm certainly not getting the MAOI effect. There are a lot of factors that have to be taken into consideration: MAOI/WTA, comparison of blood levels/cardiovascular effects, long/short term effects on body/brain (fetus to adult), pre-existing conditions or conditions potentially caused by tobacco, genetics, heredity, etc. I'm no expert but I've read a lot of articles that point out some of these factors make people more likely to smoke, they smoke more, and/or it's harder for them to quit. That makes me think there is probably a little bit more to this than just nicotine and maybe even more than just MAOI/WTA.

I'm not saying e cigs are a bad thing. I love my e cig and I can no longer do without it. I'm much more likely to give it up than a cigarette though. It's amazing that so many have been able to use it to quit. I have only been able to use it to cut down, and not much (2 packs to 1 or 1 1/2). But...what if it could be more amazing? What if those of us who are having trouble could get the desired results as well? I honestly can't see anything wrong with trying to improve upon something that has so much potential.

 

[kinabaloo]

I have suggested as much before - that's e-cigs are primarily an effective placebo. However, they do deliver nicotine and for some people that satiates effectively and for them it is also an effective, safer alternative. For others though, nicotine is clearly not the whole picture. This is where the other alkaloids (such as MAOIs) are also important. MAOIs, for example, no matter what other effects they have, amplify the 'hit' of nicotine; that is probably what some people find lacking with nicotine-only vaping.

 

[JesikaBeth]

I used to smoke Marlboro Lights, and I too have had to go with the higest nicotine available for most brands of juice or pre-filled cartos. I haven't heard anything or read anything regarding e cigs and nic, but what I can say is if I don't get a high level of nic in juice/cartos, it doesn't do much for satisfying me. Also, I usually have about 3 Nicorette Lozenges a day - one in the a.m., one in the afternoon, and one before bed.

 

[CapitalPuff]

FWIW, my medical insurance requires a nicotine blood test every year and I came up positive the last time from vaping, so that tells me that yes, I am getting it most definitely. I vape only 30-36mg juices.

The crappy part is that I still have to pay more for medical insurance because of that... Apparently smoking isn't the issue, nicotine use is

 

[tescela]

FWIW, my medical insurance requires a nicotine blood test every year and I came up positive the last time from vaping, so that tells me that yes, I am getting it most definitely. I vape only 30-36mg juices.

The crappy part is that I still have to pay more for medical insurance because of that... Apparently smoking isn't the issue, nicotine use is

CapitalPuff: you are absolutely right. We are finally moving into the endgame, where all pretense that this is about secondhand smoke is dropped. College campuses across the nation are banning ALL tobacco use. In the last year, many hospitals have implemented policies that "nicotine users need not apply." It is most definitely not about smoke. It is about control, and the next step is to deprive you of the ability to get an education and earn a living.