So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[kinabaloo]

There are many variables.. Fortunately, I think only a precious few might make enough difference to be of real interest.

I'm pretty impressed with Exo's trapping setup as described to me.

Hmmm, maybe you simply lost some of the nic

Have any real lab rats to do the classic water feed comparison experiment to compare WTA and say TWN?

ps: some gumming even with TWA might be unavoidable. For example tea catechins (MAOI alkaloids) are also gums that are responsible for tea stains.

ps: air throughput is user controlled so moot. getting 2 tired to add commas sorry.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Twisted,
Research has proven that just two bananas provide enough energy for a strenuous 90-minute workout. No wonder the banana is the number one fruit with the world's leading athletes.

Highly debatable, my friend. The only banana that had that effect on me was the one who caught me in the barn with his daughter . Good info, though. Gives me another reason to not share bananas with the kids, they already outnumber me .

IANAN, overall, it sounds like your diet would only be affective for the most determined. Man, you had me on pins and needles. Great dedication , and a heck of a leap in the right direction. My first batch of pruno didn't have the desired result, either, but with a little tweaking I finally got it right . So, what's next?

 

[a2dcovert]

I've finally taken the time to read most of what has been discussed and progress made. I think it is very admirable work you guys are doing to achieve the results thus far. My one question at this point is are the efforts pointed toward a true detox for addicted smokers or will the efforts only produce a true replacement for analogs?

Kevin

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

True safe (r) replacement, primarily, but IANAN appers to be hot on the trail of a way out, altogether.

 

[a2dcovert]

I think that no matter which result is achived it will be a positive step forward. So far the medical community is only offering new and more expensive anti-anxiety drugs. What the team here is developing may impact the MDA's wallet, but so is Obama. Too late for me, have to sign off.

Kevin

 

[Vaporer]

"air throughput is user controlled so moot"
Have to disagree Kin.
Unless the volume drawn reaches the critical orfice volume, diff in airspeed will have a diff in droplet size and how much hits the coil and how much passes by.
You are assuming a 100% "target on the coil hit."
Rebuild a few and you'll see thats just not possible by the present design.

 

[Vaporer]

Twisted,
The banana info comes from a professor at CCNY for physiological psych research.
He may not be able to tie his shoes either.......lol

 

[IANAN]

IANAN, overall, it sounds like your diet would only be affective for the most determined. Man, you had me on pins and needles. Great dedication , and a heck of a leap in the right direction. My first batch of pruno didn't have the desired result, either, but with a little tweaking I finally got it right . So, what's next?

Twisted I am not done... I had 4 Tx groups....

Tx2 is passion flower (Just took first dose), Tx 3 is coffee and chocolate only, and Tx 4 is Valerian Root + Passion Flower.

Am also planning Tx 5 (Just added) is Bananas, and I never thought of this but could do Tx 6 with higher tea but no coffee and possible Tx 7 as you mention prunes but couldn't find the post.

Could also do a Tx with a simple extract of tobacco strained through a teabag with Everclear , allowed to sit over night (Tobacco in tea bag) over very low heat to evaporate it down then mixed with VG.



Anyhow... Not to this stage yet, but there is a website that allows free submissions of clinical case studies. After I am done I am going to type it all up nice and neat like and send it over to them. You do this so that it gets shared with a broader scope of more experienced researchers and it may catch their eye- and hopefully one with some funding (Other than the 20 that was in my pocket) does a study (Perhaps with a larger N, double blind with placebos, etc).

Update: Also eating chocolate and drink coffee and take an herb twice a day wasn't that hard (It was quit tasty to tell the truth).... Spacing the coffee took some discipline... but drinking the coffee and eating chocolate would have a good chance of being accepted by most people. I considered this when I put the design together-- Many dietary Txs are effective (Eg there are two dietary approaches to lowering cholesterol that work about as well as the pharmaceutics) but aren't employed as people have problems accepting the dietary changes. Coffee and chocolate most people most likely already consume- just not spaced out and on a daily basis...

 

[kinabaloo]

Vaporer - I meant moot for existing attys. Different designs will vary though according to operating temp - coil resistance, voltage and power capability of battery - and the liquid composition (PG or VG or PEG).

Air throughput is critical too; 'moot' was perhaps over-stated. I meant that users will vary in how they puff wheras voltage and juice comp are more fixed. Only in that sense is it of less practical consideration. Uses will want and perform a particular draw; they might heed advice to say draw long and slow, but 10ml/second is not as easy to translate into practice as say 3.5v or 10% VG, 5% ethanol.

Have experimented with atty coils out of the case and stated before that some of the sir-pulled droplets will miss the coil and some will be inhaled.

 

[olderthandirt]

...

Update: Also eating chocolate and drink coffee and take an herb twice a day wasn't that hard (It was quit tasty to tell the truth).... Spacing the coffee took some discipline... but drinking the coffee and eating chocolate would have a good chance of being accepted by most people. I considered this when I put the design together-- Many dietary Txs are effective (Eg there are two dietary approaches to lowering cholesterol that work about as well as the pharmaceutics) but aren't employed as people have problems accepting the dietary changes. Coffee and chocolate most people most likely already consume- just not spaced out and on a daily basis...

Good morning IANAN!
Apologies for not commenting on your trials earlier. While I have been following with interest, I do have a lurker status to maintain!

Coffee and chocolate, in combination, have done more for my depression issues than any of the BP prescriptions I've ever tried. Add in the additional herbal supplements your trying out... I'd walk away from vaping and snus in a heartbeat if there was a way to and still remain somewhat sane at the same time.

 

[IANAN]

OTD... Don't have to apologize.


But yes.. as many have surmised the Tx is designed;

First to treat the reported symptoms of tobacco withdrawal and have a good safety profile

Second to be readily available, affordable, and acceptable to home users

Third to provide beta-carbolines and other psychoactive components in tobacco smoke that are missing from Nicotine alone.

Fourth to provide some protective factor from the damage caused by years of smoking ... Eg; Chocolate has human clinical data that would suggest it improves the survivability of a heart attack and lowers blood pressure. Coffee offers some protective factor against certain cancers... Ditto for Cat's Claw.


This is off topic... but;

If you are suffering moderate-severe depression- Tea or Coffee + Chocolate + St. John's Wort + Daily moderate exercise (Preferably outside- Eg; walking or hiking-- At least 20 minutes) with a small group of others is the best cure I have found-- period. The hardest part to treating depression is getting the volition to get off your behind to do anything though.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Am also planning Tx 5 (Just added) is Bananas, and I never thought of this but could do Tx 6 with higher tea but no coffee and possible Tx 7 as you mention prunes but couldn't find the post.

IANAN,
Uh, the prune post is #674. Sorry you missed it . On a serious note (and it's hard to be serious using prunes as a topic), prunes have 2x the potassium/ounce compared to bananas as well as the other goodies. I'm thinking a handful of prunes and a good strong cup of joe makes the most reliable "liquid plumber" you'll come across. Mt. St. Helens' got nothing on this. Also, I think the website submission is a great idea . I didn't know such a thing existed (technology is great, at home we don't even have to use the soup cans to talk anymore, just crank the handle and tell the lady who you want to talk to , it's all electric and such).

Good morning IANAN!
Apologies for not commenting on your trials earlier. While I have been following with interest, I do have a lurker status to maintain!

Coffee and chocolate, in combination, have done more for my depression issues than any of the BP prescriptions I've ever tried. Add in the additional herbal supplements your trying out... I'd walk away from vaping and snus in a heartbeat if there was a way to and still remain somewhat sane at the same time.

So, I take it you mean "sane" in a relative, loose sorta way, right?

 

[olderthandirt]

...So, I take it you mean "sane" in a relative, loose sorta way, right?

your the one eating prunes...

Sane as in I really need chocolate today. My mood is about as somber as the weather here just now

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Yeh, hear ya got a little rain in the forcast (snicker, snicker). At least the gail force winds can't blow you off your feet during your walk, ya know, just blows right through the bones and all .

 

[a2dcovert]

your the one eating prunes...

Sane as in I really need chocolate today. My mood is about as somber as the weather here just now

What type of chocolate OTD, milk or that good for you bad tasting dark stuff?

Kevin

 

[olderthandirt]

What type of chocolate OTD, milk or that good for you bad tasting dark stuff?

Kevin

ANYKINDASLONGASITSCHOCOLATE!!!

Ahem

The darker the better for sure. I haven't found a regular source here in town, don't want to pay the online prices I've found, but dark chocolate with ground chilies is the mood enhancer par excellence!

I've mentioned that one before but the folks here just don't buy it.

 

[DVap]

Round two is into it's 2nd day. So far generally positive.

Will let the testers speak for themselves at the conclusion.

 

[a2dcovert]

"ground chilies" ? I guess that wouldn't be found in the candy isle?

 

[olderthandirt]

"ground chilies" ? I guess that wouldn't be found in the candy isle?

Oh yeah, if they have it at all. Lindt markets one that unfortunately also has cherry flavoring, 70% cacao, chilies and cherry, not so good.

There are one or two vendors online that specialize in the stuff, it is good but pricey for what ever reason.

google dark chocolate with chili

vendors, recipes, ummm good stuff

I did find this at an import store here in town once, made me smile!

 

[Winace]

okay.. is whats in the liquid what it says on the bottle.. i think TW is sincere..

in fact i know they are.. i have had a puff on their neat 50 odd mg mixing stuff.. i know the nicotine is pharmacy grade stuff.. i know their intentions.. which basically is to make e smoking "respectable" to remove the slightly iffy chinese back street image.. i also know they think to be officially accepted which is the ultimate aim they think the delivery has to be accurately measurable..

so yes as far as TW are concerned the quoted mg levels can be trusted..

#####

just to throw some figure into this.. just rough ones..

liquid strength has always been based per 1 ml volumes.. just to take 36 mg as an example.. i get thru say 3 ml per day..

one reasonably strong real cig is say 1 mg.. so 1 ml of 36 mg liquid equates with 36 real cigs.. 3 ml would be 3 x this or over 100 real cigs.. or over 200 super lites..

okay the figures dont add up.. something isnt quite right..

so what can we rely on.. we can say i take in the same nicotine via e smoking as i would one hell of lot of real cigarettes.. i think we can assume it aint quite having the same effect on us as the real thing..

we can also safely assume e vapour nicotine dosnt hit the bloodstream or brain as quickly as real smoke nicotine does.. the speed of the aborption is what gives the high or buzz..

but i am more concerned with the overall absorption level than i am the speed..

100 real cigs worth goes in.. what happens to it.. does it reach the parts it needs to reach or dosnt it.. i dont know.. i think it does (enough) but low level blood nicotine level reports if true are making me rethink the whole thing..

even at a 30% efficiency level i should be still getting the equivalent of 30 real cigs.. i can live with this its well out of placebo land.. but i am still wondering.. he he

now for the humorous part... in a couple of weeks time when we meet with TW.. i will say go get the packet of Bensons jason just like i have the last couple of times.. the entire packet will be gone before we leave...this is a kind of ritualistic jokey thing with us but its true... he he

trog

My thoughts, as per wikipedia "As shown by the physical data, free base nicotine will burn at a temperature below its boiling point, and its vapors will combust at 308 K (35 °C; 95 °F) in air despite a low vapor pressure."

The coil is running at temperatures which well exceed this, very quickly. We may be burning nicotine more than actually vaporizing it into a usable form. This also would be a reasonable explanation why I feel better nicotine effects when a coil runs cooler with shorter hits and a very saturated bridge via the blue foam plug mod. Also, I have experimented with poly straight to a coil with a backing liquid resevoir. Same effect, cooler coil due to higher saturation and better "feel" of nicotine effects.

added: Did not realize this was a 75 page thread, may be an old topic ;-)