So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[IANAN]

(Passion Flower) Day one

1. Desire to smoke- Nice even day with little or no desire to smoke, especially in the afternoon. Period of 3 hours without any craves at all

2. Mental Awareness state (Mental Fog)- Different type of fog later in the day.

3. Anxiety (Relaxed state) and restlessness- Slept normally the night before. Lots of energy - different than Cat's Claw energy or coffee- best described as a more mellow energy.

4. Perceived GI (Gastro-intestinal) effects including effects on bowl movements- odd effects later in the day.

5. Effectiveness of and frequency of vaping sessions to reduce cravings- Still most effective when drinking coffee .

6. Number of traditional cigarettes consumed (If any)- 11

Twisted....You mean it rains in the US Northwest -- I would have never guessed that ....

 

[a2dcovert]

My GP put me on a new anti-anxiety drug, Pristiq, to see if we can calm down the situation. In my past two attempts to quit smoking it was obvious that the lack of cigarettes caused a chemical imbalance. My personality took a 180 degree turn. My normal personality is a calm even tempered persona. I am usually very slow to anger and totally in charge of my emotions. Right now and in the 2 previous episodes I developed a very quick temper and was subject to rage if pushed too far. This to me is the scariest part to me.

The bad part of this quest to find the truth is that the medical community will go to great lengths to avoid proof that treatment for chemical imbalances can push the individual to the point of uncontrolable rage. Chemical imbalances whether influenced by natural events can also be caused by treatment with the wrong type of chemical. My theory is that something in cigarette smoke acts on the brain chemistry and the brain becomes dependant on this chemical. Lack of this chemical will result in an imbalance.

This is why the identification of this chemical is so important to me. If I can't be treated to reverse the imbalance I will have to return to smoking. I will once again have to make the decission of quality of life over quantity. It really is that simple.

Kevin

 

[DVap]

This thread looks like it's becoming a trash-can thread for multiple lines of inquiry that might benefit from being spun off.

Any thoughts from anybody about taking whole tobacco alkaloids to one thread, herbal alternates to another, and trace level tobacco psychoactives to another?

 

[IANAN]

My theory is that something in cigarette smoke acts on the brain chemistry and the brain becomes dependant on this chemical. Lack of this chemical will result in an imbalance.

This is why the identification of this chemical is so important to me. If I can't be treated to reverse the imbalance I will have to return to smoking. I will once again have to make the decission of quality of life over quantity. It really is that simple.

Kevin

Kevin,

Anabasine, Anatabine, Myosmine, Cotinine, Harman and Norharman have had animal studies done that would support they are involved in additional reinforcement of the nicotine.

Nornicotine and Acetaldehyde also have animal studies done that would suggest additive and/or synergistic effects with nicotine but both are very likely carcinogens also based on animal and human data.

Antabasine, Anatabine, Harman, Norharman, and Acetaldehyde all are known to effect MOA inhibition. The beta-carbolines and Acetaldhyde also effect serotonin production. Beta-carbolines also allow other alkaloids to do things they normally wouldn't (Potentiating effect)...

When we aren't talking about chocolate covered chilis in this thread we have been digging up research into what could be missing and how to just extract that or dietary substances/additives to e-liquid that could replicate or replace what is missing . Lots and lots of research concentrated just in this here thread ....


There also more-or less are instructions on how to make your own tobacco extracts- but be very careful with that.

 

[IANAN]

This thread looks like it's becoming a trash-can thread for multiple lines of inquiry that might benefit from being spun off.

Any thoughts from anybody about taking whole tobacco alkaloids to one thread, herbal alternates to another, and trace level tobacco psychoactives to another?

We need like our own subforum.... baring that three sticky threads if the moderators are around and listening would probably do the trick... but preserve the research in this one.... so much lit review in one spot....

 

[DVap]

Agreed that research, theory, and speculation don't have their own home here... and they need one.

 

[a2dcovert]

Sorry for cluttering up your thread. I thought this was for persons with real life problems seeking solutions.

 

[kinabaloo]

... My theory is that something in cigarette smoke acts on the brain chemistry and the brain becomes dependant on this chemical. Lack of this chemical will result in an imbalance.

This is why the identification of this chemical is so important to me. If I can't be treated to reverse the imbalance I will have to return to smoking. I will once again have to make the decission of quality of life over quantity. It really is that simple.

Kevin

It's been touched on many times and is worth stating explicitly: to what extent does smoking create an imbalance not just temporarily, fixed with another smoke, but permanently (at least for some people); and to what extent was there (again, for some people) a pre-existing imbalance that smoking (or vaping something like WTA, or even some other med / herb / diet) helps to improve (redress or make bearable)? It's a big question.

 

[IANAN]

Sorry for cluttering up your thread. I thought this was for persons with real life problems seeking solutions.

Nah we aren't mad at you or anything... Several have noted that this thread is past 700+ posts and is a little unwieldy at the moment. There is so much research and so many links to studies in the 700+ posts though.... We need to find a home for all this info.

 

[kinabaloo]

DVap - The OP is apparently temprarily banned atm. I like this thread as it is because it creates new ideas by bringing together different themes.

But you and Exo could do well to take the test part 2 to a new thread, while this continues as a well-spring ...

 

[olderthandirt]

Sorry for cluttering up your thread. I thought this was for persons with real life problems seeking solutions.

Those last posts had nothing to do with you!!!

They were prompted by a suggestion I had made earlier. DVap just got around to bringing it up.

Good lord, look at some of the other chatter that's been going on

There is like 3 or more separate lines of thought that have developed in this thread. looking for ways to keep it all going with out losing track.

Your input is just as valid and important as all the others!!!

 

[IANAN]

Kin,

It's bringing more than just different themes together... It's bringing together different disciplines as well... I'm personally a Head Shrinking School wash out (Twisted why do you think I know about places to submit Clinical Case Studies) with my name on some research papers back from 15+ years ago, along with some really bright folks, but I pursued a different (But somewhat lucrative) career path after giving up on Head-Shrinking school. Also have some knowldge of herbal remedies.

Dvap and several others are chemist.

I am pretty sure we have had some MDs in and out of this thread as well, in addition to some herbalist.

In Academia you wouldn't get this mix....

 

[kinabaloo]

My thoughts, as per wikipedia "As shown by the physical data, free base nicotine will burn at a temperature below its boiling point, and its vapors will combust at 308 K (35 °C; 95 °F) in air despite a low vapor pressure."

The coil is running at temperatures which well exceed this, very quickly. We may be burning nicotine more than actually vaporizing it into a usable form. This also would be a reasonable explanation why I feel better nicotine effects when a coil runs cooler with shorter hits and a very saturated bridge via the blue foam plug mod. Also, I have experimented with poly straight to a coil with a backing liquid resevoir. Same effect, cooler coil due to higher saturation and better "feel" of nicotine effects.

added: Did not realize this was a 75 page thread, may be an old topic ;-)

It has apperaed now and then in various threads, but is back in vogue as recent tests show dramatic variation between atomisers (and possibly liquids too). Plus it's always good to hear real experiences.

I run a similar atty arrangement these days

I have always favored cooler running for much the reasons you have stated. And the hard evidence may be near at hand finally. Indeed, I have proposed temperature control as an important advance for atomiser design.

 

[DVap]

As has been said, this has absolutely nothing to do with any particular poster or posters. Most of us are here because we very well understand that folks have problems with a lot of the canned and approved solutions.

The thought is simply to split the various lines of inquiry out separately so that several different discussions aren't happening at the same time in the same place.

 

[kinabaloo]

Kin,

It's bringing more than just different themes together... It's bringing together different disciplines as well... I'm personally a Head Shrinking School wash out (Twisted why do you think I know about places to submit Clinical Case Studies) with my name on some research papers back from 15+ years ago, along with some really bright folks, but I pursued a different (But somewhat lucrative) career path after giving up on Head-Shrinking school. Also have some knowldge of herbal remedies.

Dvap and several others are chemist.

In Academia you wouldn't get this mix....

Sometimes, a detail about bananas say might spark a whole new endeavour of research. The alternative to one messy thread is lots of threads with messy cross-referencing, to the extent that they dont become myopic.

But I think a separate thread now on WTA would be a good idea. It's established and needs its own space.

 

[kinabaloo]

As has been said, this has absolutely nothing to do with any particular poster or posters. Most of us are here because we very well understand that folks have problems with a lot of the canned and approved solutions.

The thought is simply to split the various lines of inquiry out separately so that several different discussions aren't happening at the same time in the same place.

Best is some specialised threads for specialised topics and a general pot for the sharing and mixing of ideas - i.e. this one, with it's general theme.

A separate WTA thread now would be great.

I already created 3 spin-off threads. But they only exist as active topics because the coming together of ideas in this wonderfully eclectic thread.

WTA definetly deserves its own thread! And I would start it with a summary to date, ready for round 2 results.

 

[IANAN]

Kin,

I'm with ya on this one. I was approached also about splitting the thread.... Not for it unless;

1. The data in this one gets preserved
2. A subforum gets created or at least 3 sticky threads get created...

 

[DVap]

It's apparent that threads like this erupt wherever they might find a place because these types of discussions still don't have a home of their own here.

I'll start WTA when there's a place for such topics as WTA.

At present, I'd have to shoe-horn it into "DIY E-Liquid", or "Nicotine", or any of a number of other locations where I might be able to find an excuse to start it.

We need a sub-forum for "Science and Academia".

 

[kinabaloo]

DVap - Exo and I xalled for this many moons ago, and it was titled 'Experiments with Equipment', for some reason. I'm not too bothered now as run my own CMS

Ad2Covert - Real problems are the key! That focuses the 'real solutions'.

 

[a2dcovert]

I told you I had a quick temper. Sorry for venting my frustration.

I will list another observation. The first time I quit smoking was at age 21, I had been smoking since I was 13. I simply made up my mind to quit and just went cold turkey. I had no trouble at all. 6 years later after being in Saudia Arabia I started again. Six years later I tried to quit again and it was totally different and a dismal failure. Same with the next 2 times I tried. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to had a very similar experience. The first time quitting was kind of easy but the future times were completely different. I think that observation is important. Something changed when I took the smoking back up that first time.

Thanks for putting up with me.

Kevin