Yes it is very effective.... I have some Valerian + Passion flower root as week 4.
So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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Yes it is very effective.... I have some Valerian + Passion flower root as week 4.
The passion flower on it's own doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun IANAN. How much longer do you plan on going with this particular trial?
That certainly makes it sound as though there was a big difference between the 2 trial batches of the WTA liquids. Or is it possibly simple differences between the individuals trying it out?
I've not got the results posted for the other two testers yet, but overall, the others appear to be have an overall more positive impression.
I was not personally a fan of the flavor of this batch, as somewhat echoed by this tester, but the other testers seemed to rather like it, one from the start, and the other found it grew on him.
I can't say I'm surprized from the one report on trial #2. Even with the experience and results I had as the initial tester.
I have things I'd like to ask and know from the round 2 testers, but that will have to wait till the conclusion.
I have things I'd like to ask and know from the round 2 testers, but that will have to wait till the conclusion.
And the next set of impressions from another of the testers:
Previous 2 weeks up to start of test:
I've been vaping an average of 3ml (<,>) 36mg flavored per day with sporadic 48mg unflavored thrown in. Occasionally, only the 48mg for 1 or 2 days will quench the thirst, but usually the 36 does the job. I have (very rarely, though) taken hits from some 75mg in the a.m. to avoid prolonged wake-up vapes. I haven't used snus, cigarettes or any other tobacco products.
I've steadily declined into depression with (1) trouble sleeping, (2) loss of interests, (3) no motivation to do more than breath, (4) anxiety, in particular social phobia, but also a general anxiety, (5) complete loss of appetite, (6) a building feeling of guilt for leaving too many things undone, which is contributing to the general anxiety.
Day 1: Started day at 10:00am with coffee and 30mg/ml WTA vaped in a stock Yeti 510 while watching tv, but not seeing it. Originally, I was going to measure amounts, but decided against it. After reading Vaporer's review I was afraid I might unintentionally use his consumption as a baseline. Besides, I don't feel like it right now. Throat hit seems pretty mild, pretty good vapor, though. Not much taste, but kinda sweet, not bad at all. What's this? Upon exhale I distictly taste ashtray. A few more vapes, yes, smelled enough to know, definitely ashtray. My compliments to the chef. 11:00am coffee's gone, still vaping and not seeing tv. 12:00, same. At 1:00pm the nic itch seems tolerable enough to take a shower, maybe that'll help me come around. At 3:00pm, when heading to work, I'm feeling less anxiety than usual. Continued vaping hard to control the craving for nic throughout my shift and on the way home at 5:00am it's all I can do to not vape some 48 or higher, but the anxiety is still at a manageable level. Bed at 5:30am (made it!).
Day 2: Got up at 10:30am, sat down with coffee and 510 (no expectations today), vaped WTA until 11:30am and realized I'm bored??? Hey, I feel like getting something done around here. After a few more vapes I realized I was feeling more like me instead of a cardboard box with legs. After a shower I was ready for the day, left for work at 2:00pm (my work hours can vary in a given 24 hrs.), and really felt good. I didn't have restless energy, just the me that I know coming out of hiding. Later on, my appetite came back full force...mercy, gotta make up for lost time. I PMed DVap to let him know my progress, that after feeling like WTA might not be enough to fix me during the first day, the second day was a complete turnaround. I was very normal, like I was before drifting to abnormal. Even the itch seemed satisfied. The rest of my shift is more productive than in the past month, back up to normal speed. However, as the night progressed the nic itch reared its ugly head, then started screaming "feed me". On the way home I fed it some 48mg unflavored to satisfy anything that might keep me awake in bed. Hit the hay at 12:30am and fell asleep around 3:30am. So much for that.
Day 3: Got up at 8:30am, normal trainwreck self, but by 9:30 I'm ready to get working on things around the house. This is the norm for my past life as a smoker. The itch for nic is already starting to nag, but I continue to chain the WTA and try not to pay attention to it. 1:00pm, it's time for a cup of joe and hit the shower for work, feeling like the old me for sure. 3:00pm on the road to work I decide, rather than let the nic crave continue to occupy my thoughts, I'm just gonna hit the 48mg at will. Everything else is ok, why suffer through that? The rest of the day went well, got home from work at 5:20am the next morning, straight to bed and fell asleep around 6:30am.
Day 4: Got up at 11:00am, dragged myself and coffee/WTA combo to my recliner and loaded up. Hmmm, WTA's getting low.....in my minds eye I'm already seeing the mental prison walls going up. Oh well, I'll go out in a blaze of glory. You'll never take my WTA alive, officer! The day progresses as normal, off to work at 3:15pm and still enough WTA left for a couple wake-up vapes when I get back home at 5:15am the next morning. Cool.
Day 5: Fell asleep within minutes of hitting the pillow, slept 5 1/2 hours and now it's time to polish this off. Enough left to get through my morning coffee and a coma routine. Off to work at 3:00 with only the usual 36mg. Day goes as well as any other of the previous ones. It's good to be normal again....while it lasts. I'm sure the residual will linger for a couple of days, but in the mean time I've started to explore the dark side.....snus, anyone?
Previous 2 weeks up to start of test:
I've been vaping an average of 3ml (<,>) 36mg flavored per day with sporadic 48mg unflavored thrown in. Occasionally, only the 48mg for 1 or 2 days will quench the thirst, but usually the 36 does the job. I have (very rarely, though) taken hits from some 75mg in the a.m. to avoid prolonged wake-up vapes. I haven't used snus, cigarettes or any other tobacco products.
I've steadily declined into depression with (1) trouble sleeping, (2) loss of interests, (3) no motivation to do more than breath, (4) anxiety, in particular social phobia, but also a general anxiety, (5) complete loss of appetite, (6) a building feeling of guilt for leaving too many things undone, which is contributing to the general anxiety.
Day 1: Started day at 10:00am with coffee and 30mg/ml WTA vaped in a stock Yeti 510 while watching tv, but not seeing it. Originally, I was going to measure amounts, but decided against it. After reading Vaporer's review I was afraid I might unintentionally use his consumption as a baseline. Besides, I don't feel like it right now. Throat hit seems pretty mild, pretty good vapor, though. Not much taste, but kinda sweet, not bad at all. What's this? Upon exhale I distictly taste ashtray. A few more vapes, yes, smelled enough to know, definitely ashtray. My compliments to the chef. 11:00am coffee's gone, still vaping and not seeing tv. 12:00, same. At 1:00pm the nic itch seems tolerable enough to take a shower, maybe that'll help me come around. At 3:00pm, when heading to work, I'm feeling less anxiety than usual. Continued vaping hard to control the craving for nic throughout my shift and on the way home at 5:00am it's all I can do to not vape some 48 or higher, but the anxiety is still at a manageable level. Bed at 5:30am (made it!).
Day 2: Got up at 10:30am, sat down with coffee and 510 (no expectations today), vaped WTA until 11:30am and realized I'm bored??? Hey, I feel like getting something done around here. After a few more vapes I realized I was feeling more like me instead of a cardboard box with legs. After a shower I was ready for the day, left for work at 2:00pm (my work hours can vary in a given 24 hrs.), and really felt good. I didn't have restless energy, just the me that I know coming out of hiding. Later on, my appetite came back full force...mercy, gotta make up for lost time. I PMed DVap to let him know my progress, that after feeling like WTA might not be enough to fix me during the first day, the second day was a complete turnaround. I was very normal, like I was before drifting to abnormal. Even the itch seemed satisfied. The rest of my shift is more productive than in the past month, back up to normal speed. However, as the night progressed the nic itch reared its ugly head, then started screaming "feed me". On the way home I fed it some 48mg unflavored to satisfy anything that might keep me awake in bed. Hit the hay at 12:30am and fell asleep around 3:30am. So much for that.
Day 3: Got up at 8:30am, normal trainwreck self, but by 9:30 I'm ready to get working on things around the house. This is the norm for my past life as a smoker. The itch for nic is already starting to nag, but I continue to chain the WTA and try not to pay attention to it. 1:00pm, it's time for a cup of joe and hit the shower for work, feeling like the old me for sure. 3:00pm on the road to work I decide, rather than let the nic crave continue to occupy my thoughts, I'm just gonna hit the 48mg at will. Everything else is ok, why suffer through that? The rest of the day went well, got home from work at 5:20am the next morning, straight to bed and fell asleep around 6:30am.
Day 4: Got up at 11:00am, dragged myself and coffee/WTA combo to my recliner and loaded up. Hmmm, WTA's getting low.....in my minds eye I'm already seeing the mental prison walls going up. Oh well, I'll go out in a blaze of glory. You'll never take my WTA alive, officer! The day progresses as normal, off to work at 3:15pm and still enough WTA left for a couple wake-up vapes when I get back home at 5:15am the next morning. Cool.
Day 5: Fell asleep within minutes of hitting the pillow, slept 5 1/2 hours and now it's time to polish this off. Enough left to get through my morning coffee and a coma routine. Off to work at 3:00 with only the usual 36mg. Day goes as well as any other of the previous ones. It's good to be normal again....while it lasts. I'm sure the residual will linger for a couple of days, but in the mean time I've started to explore the dark side.....snus, anyone?
A definite candidate for snus. We've got some snus experts around here who will be more than happy to wax poetic about the virtues of their favorites!
Quite a fanatical lot, they are
!!!
Fanatics?Quite a fanatical lot, they are
Snusers don't hold a candle to snuffers for fanatacism!
Fanatics?
Snusers don't hold a candle to snuffers for fanatacism!
Bubba, ya got that right. Made me blush
. Especially that one about the pea size serving. Kinda like seeing a car wreck and not being able to look away. Morbid curiosity at its best 
.
Fanatical, me? Hmmmm....yea ok......I can be.
I'll keep biting my tounge till all the comments/reports are posted.
Just one more, Vaporer, we'll take the leash off
.
And speaking of intestinal fortitude, has your diet and/or appetite stayed the same through all this?
Snuffers too? I missed that one. In my last order that came a few days ago with my new brands of snus to try out and better nic strengths I got some wonderful Poschl's Menthol Snuff. Yummmmmmmy...........Nice WTA effect too.
Twisted, my comments won't be bad.....just things I've noticed in the reporting that I think are interesting.
Twisted, my comments won't be bad.....just things I've noticed in the reporting that I think are interesting.
I really grew to like this WTA. But I could not have picked a worse period to test it.
It arrived on a Wednesday, at a time when the atomizers in my favorite Janty Kissbox units were dying on me. I had already ordered two new ones, but delivery had not yet been made. So I was down to using two Dura-C 510 models, which can't hold a candle to the Kissbox, and the JantyStick, which is great but not as easy to handle as a Kissbox.
Worst? A previously broken and repaired front tooth fell out the day the WTA arrived. It just went "pop", I touched it with my tongue, and out it plopped. I made an appointment with a dentist for the next morning, the morning I would begin the WTA.
I looked terrible and felt terrible that next day. Sleep was fitfull and my stress level was high (who enjoys seeing a dentist even for a simple cleaning?). I used only 1mg to 1.5mg of liquid that first day. And I quickly concluded I did not want to give up my other alternative sources of nicotine. The truth is .. I really like them. I love the taste of Java Stonewall. Wow Coffee Bit nasal snuff. And the new Mocca Macchiato that arrived a day before the WTA. So I kept using everything.
And, glory be, my new Janty atomizers came with the mail that day! What a difference new atomizers make. The WTA produced clouds of copious vapor from my Kissboxes and JantyStick (I even used my Screwdriver late in the evening). In all, I tested in two Kissboxes, a JantyStick, two Duras and a Screwdriver.
The first day impression of the WTA was mixed. I wasn't crazy about the taste, particularly compared to my sweet dissolvables and snus. My cravings were still out of control, thanks to a stress level that could be measured in my elevated blood pressure taken at the dentist's.
I also developed a headache in mid-afternoon, after being told my mouth is a periodontal disaster zone and nothing could be fixed until I saw a periodontist. I made an appointment for the next morning.
At the end of the first day, while I had used dissolvables, snus, one pipe and one sniff of nasal snuff, the overall use was way down. I had used three Stonewalls, for instance, where I would have consumed 10 on a normal day. Two snus potions; I normally use 12 a day. So the e-liquid had cut the necessity I feel for so much nicotine.
By day two, I decided the taste was improving. But not the cravings. This was the day to meet a new periodontist -- and we didn't hit it off. Understatement. I really don't ever want to see her again.
We actually clashed on politics, which she initiated. I felt the rest of the exam was payback for my political leanings opposite hers.
I talked extensively about my nicotine needs, since it seems unfair to check "non-smoker" and not explain a few things. She seemed interested but ignorant, even about snus (how can any dental professional anywhere in the world not be current on snus???). I took out my e-cig to demonstrate and puffed a small cloud of WTA vapor.
"It smells like a cigar," she pronounced. "Do not use that in here." Whoa. She pretty much nailed the flavor of the test liquid -- from more than four feet away. And I didn't blow it toward her. Uncanny.
She proved extremely anti-nicotine. Far beyond mere anti-smoking or anti-tobacco. Nicotine does the damage in the mouth to gums and bone, she said. Nicotine was the demon and there was nothing that could be said good about it. Believe me, I tried .. and I've read the studies.
I got the same anti-nicotine stance from both my dentist and my oral surgeon, by the way. Anyone who thinks e-cigs will be welcomed in those circles had better think twice. No nicotine delivery system will be welcome. The periodontist said she'd heard of e-cigs, but they were no good because they hadn't been proven to help smokers quit.
"What if I don't want to quit?" I asked.
"Then you might help your lungs but that's all. You'll ruin your mouth."
I used about 2mg on that day. Two mg is a heavy day for me, since I rely so much on other sources of nicotine. I had a miserable night, stabbed with daggers of pain from the pointed probe she jammed into my gums during the exam. I tasted blood all evening.
The rest is kind of a blur. Today, an oral surgeon extracted the remaining roots of the front tooth. I liked him and we chatted about science things (why can't I grow another tooth, like a shark or a child?). He was indifferent to the e-cig, while loudly denouncing any smoking device. I was told not to smoke for 48 hours after my surgery. So I'm not using my pipe for two days. I am e-smoking the WTA however.
I still have a sizable amount of WTA liquid left after five days of exclusive use. I've come to like the taste, but wouldn't mind a Kahlua flavor being added to sweeten it a bit. The throat hit, to me, was very pronounced, almost like Janty's Cigar flavor. This is ... good stuff! It tastes, hits and feels like smoke.
Now here's an interesting thought: We know propylene glycol is anti-bacterial, and can kill germs that cause, say, pneumonia or tuberculosis. The proof is posted elsewhere on the forum. But ... there are 22 bacteria that live in the mouth, and three are notorious for creating a toxin that eats bone where teeth are anchored. What if ...
What if propylene glycol killed those bacteria? Blunt fact is that we don't know. It might, and that prospect deserves investigation. What if e-smoking not only produced healthier lungs, but healthier mouths? What if it prevented disease conditions in both?
If I knew how, I'd scrape some bacteria from my gum lines, culture it, and then flood it with exhaled propylene glycol, to see what happens. In the germ-killing vapor thread, you can see the original reports with photos of germs before and after explosure to PG vapor. Remember, it's VAPOR that is effective. Exactly what we use as produced by our personal vaporizers.
I'm going to see if I can't get a researcher interested in this very simple test: Does PG vapor kill harmful bacteria that reside in the mouth?
As I write this, my mouth is bleeding, I'm on three medications -- one for pain -- and I must remain toothless until Dec. 3.
Hey, having some WTA liquid left over after five days is helping my spirits.
It arrived on a Wednesday, at a time when the atomizers in my favorite Janty Kissbox units were dying on me. I had already ordered two new ones, but delivery had not yet been made. So I was down to using two Dura-C 510 models, which can't hold a candle to the Kissbox, and the JantyStick, which is great but not as easy to handle as a Kissbox.
Worst? A previously broken and repaired front tooth fell out the day the WTA arrived. It just went "pop", I touched it with my tongue, and out it plopped. I made an appointment with a dentist for the next morning, the morning I would begin the WTA.
I looked terrible and felt terrible that next day. Sleep was fitfull and my stress level was high (who enjoys seeing a dentist even for a simple cleaning?). I used only 1mg to 1.5mg of liquid that first day. And I quickly concluded I did not want to give up my other alternative sources of nicotine. The truth is .. I really like them. I love the taste of Java Stonewall. Wow Coffee Bit nasal snuff. And the new Mocca Macchiato that arrived a day before the WTA. So I kept using everything.
And, glory be, my new Janty atomizers came with the mail that day! What a difference new atomizers make. The WTA produced clouds of copious vapor from my Kissboxes and JantyStick (I even used my Screwdriver late in the evening). In all, I tested in two Kissboxes, a JantyStick, two Duras and a Screwdriver.
The first day impression of the WTA was mixed. I wasn't crazy about the taste, particularly compared to my sweet dissolvables and snus. My cravings were still out of control, thanks to a stress level that could be measured in my elevated blood pressure taken at the dentist's.
I also developed a headache in mid-afternoon, after being told my mouth is a periodontal disaster zone and nothing could be fixed until I saw a periodontist. I made an appointment for the next morning.
At the end of the first day, while I had used dissolvables, snus, one pipe and one sniff of nasal snuff, the overall use was way down. I had used three Stonewalls, for instance, where I would have consumed 10 on a normal day. Two snus potions; I normally use 12 a day. So the e-liquid had cut the necessity I feel for so much nicotine.
By day two, I decided the taste was improving. But not the cravings. This was the day to meet a new periodontist -- and we didn't hit it off. Understatement. I really don't ever want to see her again.
We actually clashed on politics, which she initiated. I felt the rest of the exam was payback for my political leanings opposite hers.
I talked extensively about my nicotine needs, since it seems unfair to check "non-smoker" and not explain a few things. She seemed interested but ignorant, even about snus (how can any dental professional anywhere in the world not be current on snus???). I took out my e-cig to demonstrate and puffed a small cloud of WTA vapor.
"It smells like a cigar," she pronounced. "Do not use that in here." Whoa. She pretty much nailed the flavor of the test liquid -- from more than four feet away. And I didn't blow it toward her. Uncanny.
She proved extremely anti-nicotine. Far beyond mere anti-smoking or anti-tobacco. Nicotine does the damage in the mouth to gums and bone, she said. Nicotine was the demon and there was nothing that could be said good about it. Believe me, I tried .. and I've read the studies.
I got the same anti-nicotine stance from both my dentist and my oral surgeon, by the way. Anyone who thinks e-cigs will be welcomed in those circles had better think twice. No nicotine delivery system will be welcome. The periodontist said she'd heard of e-cigs, but they were no good because they hadn't been proven to help smokers quit.
"What if I don't want to quit?" I asked.
"Then you might help your lungs but that's all. You'll ruin your mouth."
I used about 2mg on that day. Two mg is a heavy day for me, since I rely so much on other sources of nicotine. I had a miserable night, stabbed with daggers of pain from the pointed probe she jammed into my gums during the exam. I tasted blood all evening.
The rest is kind of a blur. Today, an oral surgeon extracted the remaining roots of the front tooth. I liked him and we chatted about science things (why can't I grow another tooth, like a shark or a child?). He was indifferent to the e-cig, while loudly denouncing any smoking device. I was told not to smoke for 48 hours after my surgery. So I'm not using my pipe for two days. I am e-smoking the WTA however.
I still have a sizable amount of WTA liquid left after five days of exclusive use. I've come to like the taste, but wouldn't mind a Kahlua flavor being added to sweeten it a bit. The throat hit, to me, was very pronounced, almost like Janty's Cigar flavor. This is ... good stuff! It tastes, hits and feels like smoke.
Now here's an interesting thought: We know propylene glycol is anti-bacterial, and can kill germs that cause, say, pneumonia or tuberculosis. The proof is posted elsewhere on the forum. But ... there are 22 bacteria that live in the mouth, and three are notorious for creating a toxin that eats bone where teeth are anchored. What if ...
What if propylene glycol killed those bacteria? Blunt fact is that we don't know. It might, and that prospect deserves investigation. What if e-smoking not only produced healthier lungs, but healthier mouths? What if it prevented disease conditions in both?
If I knew how, I'd scrape some bacteria from my gum lines, culture it, and then flood it with exhaled propylene glycol, to see what happens. In the germ-killing vapor thread, you can see the original reports with photos of germs before and after explosure to PG vapor. Remember, it's VAPOR that is effective. Exactly what we use as produced by our personal vaporizers.
I'm going to see if I can't get a researcher interested in this very simple test: Does PG vapor kill harmful bacteria that reside in the mouth?
As I write this, my mouth is bleeding, I'm on three medications -- one for pain -- and I must remain toothless until Dec. 3.
Hey, having some WTA liquid left over after five days is helping my spirits.
That's been a rough few days T Bob. Ouch! And right before Thanksgiving no less!!
Absolutely!!!!!
Depends on your nic choice, however, my husband tells me it is "all good"!
Depends on your nic choice, however, my husband tells me it is "all good"!
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