So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[TropicalBob]

Let me preface this with "We are all individuals."

I flat love Stonewall dissolvables. They provide everything I want and need in a tobacco product. Only a pipe comes close in terms of satisfaction. The low TSNA is said by Star Scientific to result from a patented curing process (which RJR stole, copied and used with Camel Orbs, etc; both parties went to court and Star was told it couldn't patent that curing process).

Anyhow, the dissovable is 100% whole tobacco. No extraction and replacement, according to Star. The pellet has everything.

And I've tried soaking many kinds of tobacco in many kinds of liquids to create e-liquid. This just does not work. Sorry. Nic levels seem ridiculously low. The stuff stinks. It's dirty. Tars, etc., move into the liquid from the tobacco. This is not a route to take, in my opinion based on testing and Mason jars of black crap in my refrigerator.

If someone finds a method that works, produces decent nic along with other alkaloids, is clean and doesn't kill atomizers -- we'll all cheer. But the DIY thread alone will assure anyone that dozens of people have tried this -- without notable success. I wish it were so simple ...

 

[Vaporer]

That's a premise I've always tried to keep clear with all TB, is that we are all individuals and what works for one may not for another so each has to try to find the combination they need and not toss it out just because it didnt work for someone.

I'm in the CAT4 zone and I think DVap will agree. I get a great nic blast from StoneWall but nada in the WTA effect area. It might be that since I can get by with such low nic I dont do enough of the StoneWall to get to the WTA if its in there. I may be stopping short due to self titrating the nic level. I'd expect the same ratio though nic/WTA. I normally use 1/2 at a time since they are 4.5mg of nic. I might fair better with the 1.5mg Ariva's. They are on my next order list.

I'd still expect to feel some of the WTA "less vape' satisfaction and "vape cutback" I get with WTA and snus, but I dont. I can see where a couple of the testers felt the WTA helped but were still nic shy. I think it would be a good boost for them.

That's why I offered DVap a box of 20 4.5mg Stonewall naturals. He wouldn't have to find and buy them. I got the display 5 box deal on it and Java. Java is yummy tasting and has a good nic kick. DVap vapes low nic and he could see if he feels the WTA if its in them or if its the same as my results and have enough to test too.

If he did the alkaloid extraction, I'd expect he would know before the final stages if it were present or not.

 

[DVap]

That's a premise I've always tried to keep clear with all TB, is that we are all individuals and what works for one may not for another so each has to try to find the combination they need and not toss it out just because it didnt work for someone.

I'm in the CAT4 zone and I think DVap will agree. I get a great nic blast from StoneWall but nada in the WTA effect area. It might be that since I can get by with such low nic I dont do enough of the StoneWall to get to the WTA if its in there. I may be stopping short due to self titrating the nic level. I'd expect the same ratio though nic/WTA. I normally use 1/2 at a time since they are 4.5mg of nic. I might fair better with the 1.5mg Ariva's. They are on my next order list.

I'd still expect to feel some of the WTA "less vape' satisfaction and "vape cutback" I get with WTA and snus, but I dont. I can see where a couple of the testers felt the WTA helped but were still nic shy. I think it would be a good boost for them.

That's why I offered DVap a box of 20 4.5mg Stonewall naturals. He wouldn't have to find and buy them. I got the display 5 box deal on it and Java. Java is yummy tasting and has a good nic kick. DVap vapes low nic and he could see if he feels the WTA if its in them or if its the same as my results and have enough to test too.

If he did the alkaloid extraction, I'd expect he would know before the final stages if it were present or not.

Indeed Vaporer, concentrated nicotine and concentrated WTA have distinctly different odors. I could easily enough isolate any alkaloidal material from Stonewalls and find out. You still know how to get them to me?

 

[Vaporer]

I'll have them in the mail this afternoon ot tomorrow.
20 be enough?

Edit, even if the WTA isnt there , it may be a way to get a nic liquid to use in a pinch.
Appreciate all the work you've done.
Want some snus with it too?

 

[DVap]

I'll have them in the mail this afternoon ot tomorrow.
20 be enough?

Edit, even if the WTA isnt there , it may be a way to get a nic liquid to use in a pinch.
Appreciate all the work you've done.
Want some snus with it too?

20 would get me a little under 100 mg.. enough to see if the alkaloids are there. I'd best skip the snus.. I don't want to go jumping to a different quadrant! Thanks!

 

[a2dcovert]

Edit, even if the WTA isnt there , it may be a way to get a nic liquid to use in a pinch.
Appreciate all the work you've done.

I second that.

I also hope that the Stonewall will be something for me to fall back on at times when using the e-cig isn't an option, like meetings and other group functions when I don't dare pull out the e-cig.

I hope that I have the same experience that TB has had. If this is also a method of getting the WTA then that will be great. I have found a local source for the Stonewall and it isn't expensive. I just need to try the other flavors to find the one I like.

I also have a local source for the snus. Problem is that they only carry the domestic brands that don't meet the levels I probably need. So it all looks much better for me going forward.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I've also looked into the Stonewall's. On the back burner for now since I've expanded my horizons. Makes it hard to tell what works for me and what doesn't if I have a tobacco/nicotine supplement shoved in all available orifices. TBob sure makes 'em sound tempting and like you said, a2d, the cost is minimal for what you get. My annual smoking budget is way beyond out the window, so hopefully, I get 'er nailed down fairly soon .

 

[DVap]

If Stonewalls deliver the WTA's, they can't hide from me.

 

[Vaporer]

a2d,
Stonewall works well for me at my sons basketball game for the nic part no problem.
To get the WTA edge off a mini snus completes the job. Unless you really need to see the vapor I dont see a need to get the nic out of it into a liquid. You could use one and vape 0nic PG/VG.

I'm down to vaping abt 1 1/2 ml a day with this combo. Then I'm really just vaping to satisfy my menthol urge. Gettin better all the time. Been workin on a menthol crystal liquid to put a drop on a portion and let it dry. PG doesnt work to well. Maybe everclear or the high vodka will be better. Havent had time to try it.

If you order your Stonewall you can get the 5 box display thing 20pcs in each box for $10 free shipping. As far as I know it only comes in 2 flavors, regular and Java. The Ariva comes in wintergreen and something else I think. Same price but its only 1.5mg nic per piece. Stonewall is 4.5mg ea so I break them in 1/2.

Very cost effective.

 

[Vaporer]

DVap,

Your 20 Stonewall are in the mail. My vote is no WTA. At least not enough in nic ratio compared to RYO to do any good.

Anxious to see how this one turns out.
Thanks for the test in advance.

Edit: Wonder if menthol crystals were put in the snus container and left there how much wouldmigrate to the portions. That stuff is strong!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Edit: Wonder if menthol crystals were put in the snus container and left there how much wouldmigrate to the portions. That stuff is strong!

Yes, Vaporer, the crystals are very potent. You might try sealing a dry portion in a zip-lok bag with the crystals and see if the menthal permeates it well enough .

 

[a2dcovert]

Thanks for all the info guys. I wonder how long it will take for me to notice any benefit? I also wonder if I still remember what normal feels like. This may be a long process and a good short term result may be a false positive.

I have a problem with my body's tollerance to nicotine. I find that 24mg is the max I can use in my juice. I'm not sure what the actual cause is but when I get too much nicotine I have a problem with too much acid production. The results of this usually are gastric ulcers and acid reflux. I am taking medication to prevent this but I am at the maximum dosage and am barely keeping it at bay. Besides the ulcers the GERD is very hard to deal with. I could go on but you get the idea.

This is why WTA is important to me. I'm hoping I can satisfy the chemical need while lowering the nicotine intake.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Thanks for all the info guys. I wonder how long it will take for me to notice any benefit? I also wonder if I still remember what normal feels like. This may be a long process and a good short term result may be a false positive.

I have a problem with my body's tollerance to nicotine. I find that 24mg is the max I can use in my juice. I'm not sure what the actual cause is but when I get too much nicotine I have a problem with too much acid production. The results of this usually are gastric ulcers and acid reflux. I am taking medication to prevent this but I am at the maximum dosage and am barely keeping it at bay. Besides the ulcers the GERD is very hard to deal with. I could go on but you get the idea.

This is why WTA is important to me. I'm hoping I can satisfy the chemical need while lowering the nicotine intake.

What would be ideal is a alkaloid heavy substance that didn't include a heavy nicotine dose, kinda like a syrup . Don't know that would be possible outside pharma, but that's why they make antidepressents. Vaporer may be able to give some insight here, he cut his WTA by 50% and seemed to do ok. It may be that, for some, a little alkaloids in the system might stimulate the body's production and release of dopamine and maoi's, so a small internal dosage is all that's required. I'm somewhere else, though. Hard telling why I'm like I am....my mom and dad were clean wholesome people, but chemical dependency is thick on both sides of the family; I was born sick and from the ages of 6 mo. to 6 years underwent numerous operations (doc's used all typical anesthetics and only God knows how many and what type of pain killers at the time) in a 1960's medical environment far removed from the one that exists today; as a youth (do we ever really grow up?) I was given to reckless living and acquired an insatiable thirst for hard drink....why I've never been "normal" doesn't matter, what it takes to help me resemble "normal" does. Strong coffee and smokes have done the job very well over the last 5 years, so I know what it takes. Now I'm on the search to do it as safely as possible (growing up or getting old?) I think we'll eventually figure it out, a2d. With WTA DVap has found the master key and we just need to find a good way to harvest it. Not only that, but with kin's research we may be able to use an alternative that gives us the same end result . Just remember....."if I smoke I'll have my old quality of life back, even if I have to sacrifice some quanity. Yes, I'm willing to do that if I feel that's all I can do. Tomorrow. Today I'm still searching with a few stones still unturned.

 

[Vaporer]

TV,
I have 5 containers I goofed and got General Mini's, no mint.
Duh factor.........

I figure I can take part of the 4oz of crystals I have and just put them in and let them go for a week or so.......
I can use them without, vaping menthol.....always a trade off.

a2d,
With snus it takes me abt 20 min to feel the "I dont need to be vaping right now" thing.
Its actually amazing. You mileage may differ, but its the same for me with snus as WTA.
Or..very close.....WTA is so much like an analog.....even to those certain little flavors...
WTA has a longer 1/2 life than nic. So once you get the feeling and get the amount close, it hangs in quite a while.....does for me.......
Not like that rabib nic craving that more nic from eliquid doesnt scratch the itch.
If you are WTA low, you will see a diff. Good Swedish snus will help you alot if WTA isnt available so hang in there. They are very close and a darn site better than just eliquid.
I just dont feel the WTA effect from Stonewall....reason for my vote.
It nails me with nic, but left wanting.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

WTA has a longer 1/2 life than nic. So once you get the feeling and get the amount close, it hangs in quite a while.....does for me.......
.

Yes, I agree. I assume this is why so many do great with the ecig for a few weeks or a month then start slipping and craving. Also, like others, I had a period shortly after quitting the smokes when I had very vivid dreams. And, generally, I "undersleep" and rarely have a hint of a dream. This has always been attributed to a degree of nic withdawl on the forum and I assumed the same. Strangely, a few days after finishing the WTA I had 2 nights in a row of vivid dreams. Seems it isn't the nic, afterall. Least not in my case. Just thought you might find that interesting enough to log into your data banks .

 

[Mister]

I've now joined the ranks of the snus users.

I've been vaping four months now. Early on I rapidly got down to 4 or 5 cigarettes per day, then slowly down a bit further. But last month I was still having from 1 to 3 per day. And I was fighting a craving for something, which increasing my nic level in the juice did not satisfy. (Just made me jumpy.) When the need became too high to ignore I'd smoke.

TB's posts about snus were very helpful. I ordered a couple of sampler packs from Northerner late last month. I've now been cigarette free for 7 days and with 2 or 3 snus per day am not feeling as much of the something missing sensation. I may up my consumption a bit more to see if I can entirely ditch that feeling.

Yesterday I realized just how well they're working. I spent four hours on the phone with Dell support-from-hell-in-India. I realized afterward that I hadn't found myself needing a cigarette. All I needed was to kill someone. Much better. The snus supplement is really working.

Now I just need to work through the samples to find a flavor of snus that I like.

 

[a2dcovert]

Just remember....."if I smoke I'll have my old quality of life back, even if I have to sacrifice some quanity. Yes, I'm willing to do that if I feel that's all I can do.

I made that decission in 2004 after heart surgery. Made to feel like a fool for continuing to smoke even though I had already had heart blockage. No one understood the decission I had made then and some of those same people now think all I need is the will power to succeed.

Vaporer, are there any of the domestic snus products that I might get satisfaction from?

 

[a2dcovert]

Hello Mister,

Glad to here of your success with the snus. I hope to be in a good place soon myself.

 

[TropicalBob]

What a great story, Mister. With a little, usually enjoyable, experimentation, you'll find a snus strength and flavor you can enjoy every time. They lack a cigarette's immediate "hit", but make it for it with a steady, very high blood nicotine level that drives away cravings.

And they are nature's WTA.

A2D: Try Discreet. There are very few choices for domestic snus. Many find Camel and Marlboro too sweet and/or not strong enough. Discreet is tasty and has 7.4mg of nicotine (just about perfect). Online outlets like getsnus.com have Discreet at very reasonable prices (six new packs arrived in my mail today; strawberry and peach). They are mini pouches, invisible in use.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I made that decission in 2004 after heart surgery. Made to feel like a fool for continuing to smoke even though I had already had heart blockage. No one understood the decission I had made then and some of those same people now think all I need is the will power to succeed.

My dad died in 1999 with people thinking the same after a triple bypass in the 80's. He quit for 3 years, started running marathons, did the whole 9 yards. I never believed a nicotine craving drove him back to it (actually, he blamed me, but in a tongue-in-cheek way, sorta like saying the dog farted...he did that alot, too). I didn't understand about the maoi thing, but I did understand the calming effects that are unique to cigarettes, and saw that as something he needed that didn't come from exercise or diet.