So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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Good point, V. Might as well use TB's popularity to draw the masses and preach it all. Surely, someone of importance in the the anti-cig movement will be watching
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I hate to jump into this thread this far in, and no I haven't read all 1300 posts so I'm sure I might be missing something..BUT.. It seems like you guys are making it harder than it needs to be.
I don't know much about chemestry (<<look I cant even spell it). And I know even less about alkaloids. But for me it's all about the nic. And when it comes to absorption, that's easy... if you're not feelin' it, up the nic.
I use 36-48 all day and spike with 60 constantly. I don't think anyone could convince me that it's not getting absorbed or that I'm not getting something that analogs gave me, because now I can chain smoke 3-4 cigs in a row and feel zip. I haven't even tried in a while because analogs are just too weak now. No rush, no tingly, not even enough smoke anymore compared to what I'm used to with my current vaping setup.
When I tried to quit smoking a couple years ago I walked around with two 21mg patches 24/7 and still wanted to smoke. Now, vaping with the right equipment I not only don't want to smoke, but even when I have forced myself to try it "for the sake of science", I find it just doesn't cut it anymore. I think those that have convinced themselves that they are 'missing something' are just inventing ways to make it harder than it is.
What I do know about absorption is that, with the right equipment (like the prototype I have on my desk right now), 12mg juice will literally make you dizzy after about 3-4 hits.
Anyway, just my .02
[/rant]
***now I will sink back into the corner and watch for any advancements you might be on the brink of (in case you all really are onto something here ) **
I don't know much about chemestry (<<look I cant even spell it). And I know even less about alkaloids. But for me it's all about the nic. And when it comes to absorption, that's easy... if you're not feelin' it, up the nic.
I use 36-48 all day and spike with 60 constantly. I don't think anyone could convince me that it's not getting absorbed or that I'm not getting something that analogs gave me, because now I can chain smoke 3-4 cigs in a row and feel zip. I haven't even tried in a while because analogs are just too weak now. No rush, no tingly, not even enough smoke anymore compared to what I'm used to with my current vaping setup.
When I tried to quit smoking a couple years ago I walked around with two 21mg patches 24/7 and still wanted to smoke. Now, vaping with the right equipment I not only don't want to smoke, but even when I have forced myself to try it "for the sake of science", I find it just doesn't cut it anymore. I think those that have convinced themselves that they are 'missing something' are just inventing ways to make it harder than it is.
What I do know about absorption is that, with the right equipment (like the prototype I have on my desk right now), 12mg juice will literally make you dizzy after about 3-4 hits.
Anyway, just my .02
[/rant]
***now I will sink back into the corner and watch for any advancements you might be on the brink of (in case you all really are onto something here
) **
Twas a hit and run, a drive by, anyone get the number of that bus? 
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was that?
Nice retort OTD...didn't quite convince me though
A2D...yours was a little better
So are you all saying that you can vape 48-60mg all day and then smoke a cig and feel something (anything) from it???I hate to jump into this thread this far in, and no I haven't read all 1300 posts so I'm sure I might be missing something..BUT.. It seems like you guys are making it harder than it needs to be.
I don't know much about chemestry (<<look I cant even spell it). And I know even less about alkaloids. But for me it's all about the nic. And when it comes to absorption, that's easy... if you're not feelin' it, up the nic.
I use 36-48 all day and spike with 60 constantly. I don't think anyone could convince me that it's not getting absorbed or that I'm not getting something that analogs gave me, because now I can chain smoke 3-4 cigs in a row and feel zip. I haven't even tried in a while because analogs are just too weak now. No rush, no tingly, not even enough smoke anymore compared to what I'm used to with my current vaping setup.
When I tried to quit smoking a couple years ago I walked around with two 21mg patches 24/7 and still wanted to smoke. Now, vaping with the right equipment I not only don't want to smoke, but even when I have forced myself to try it "for the sake of science", I find it just doesn't cut it anymore. I think those that have convinced themselves that they are 'missing something' are just inventing ways to make it harder than it is.
What I do know about absorption is that, with the right equipment (like the prototype I have on my desk right now), 12mg juice will literally make you dizzy after about 3-4 hits.
Anyway, just my .02
[/rant]
***now I will sink back into the corner and watch for any advancements you might be on the brink of (in case you all really are onto something here
Good questions/observations to be posting.
The thought has turned strongly to vaping certainly providing ample nicotine, but another theme that has also emerged strongly is the great variability in how each individual responds to the various materials found in analogs (nicotine or otherwise) when used separately or in varying combinations.
An important realization that has then come to light is this: One size does not fit all.
Reminds me of the guy on the Stonewall forum who starts the day with four 4mg Stonewalls stuffed in his cheeks....
But, yes, consider yourself lucky, fella. Rest assured, more nicotine alone is NOT the answer for those who find "something missing" from e-smoking after awhile. I've been at this almost two years; how long have you been vaping?
As an aside: More nic is not good for you. There's increased vasoconstriction, higher heart rate and blood pressure, etc. You want to be a heart attack or stroke candidate some year down the road, just keep shoveling that nicotine into your blood vessels. After a period of time, they lose their elasticity. The doctor will see you now...
Ideally, we should use nicotine in moderation, and hope we receive some of its benefits, while avoiding its known dangers (the newest being that it encourages cancerous growth of damaged cells; I'm sure my lung cells are damaged from 50 years of 30 cigarettes a day).
The only way some of us less fortunate than you can keep nicotine in check is to attempt to replicate the smoking experience as closely as possible, without inhaling tobacco smoke. That's where this thread is headed. That's what WTA is all about.
But, yes, consider yourself lucky, fella. Rest assured, more nicotine alone is NOT the answer for those who find "something missing" from e-smoking after awhile. I've been at this almost two years; how long have you been vaping?
As an aside: More nic is not good for you. There's increased vasoconstriction, higher heart rate and blood pressure, etc. You want to be a heart attack or stroke candidate some year down the road, just keep shoveling that nicotine into your blood vessels. After a period of time, they lose their elasticity. The doctor will see you now...
Ideally, we should use nicotine in moderation, and hope we receive some of its benefits, while avoiding its known dangers (the newest being that it encourages cancerous growth of damaged cells; I'm sure my lung cells are damaged from 50 years of 30 cigarettes a day).
The only way some of us less fortunate than you can keep nicotine in check is to attempt to replicate the smoking experience as closely as possible, without inhaling tobacco smoke. That's where this thread is headed. That's what WTA is all about.
Thank you for the answer Dvap (and TB)..
but I have to ask again (since I asked right before your answer)...
So are you all saying that you can vape 48-60mg all day and then smoke a cig and feel something (anything) from it???
Or is this just assumption that somethings missing but you don't want to 'fall off the wagon' to test if a cig really is better/different.??
but I have to ask again (since I asked right before your answer)...
So are you all saying that you can vape 48-60mg all day and then smoke a cig and feel something (anything) from it???
Or is this just assumption that somethings missing but you don't want to 'fall off the wagon' to test if a cig really is better/different.??
Nice retort OTD...didn't quite convince me though
...
Not attempting to convince you of anything.
DVap and a2d are much more patient than this old fart.
I took your rant, as you put it, as a very odd drive-by kind of slam.
If I'm mistaken as to the intent of your post my sincerest apologies...
Nice retort OTD...didn't quite convince me though
A2D...yours was a little better
Good insight highping, Yes there is a growing number of us that seem to be wanting something besides nicotine. We call it the "something missing" element. of course DVap has summed it up much nice than I
That's a great statement DVap, very factual.
Ok, I did it again (I asked the question before I read TB post )
That clears up a little more TB. To answer your question, only about five months.
And I am starting to see your point. I have always just bumped the nic level and then tried a smoke every couple week until a hit a nic level that made it so I couldn't feel a smoke.
After reading what you have just said, I guess that's not the best approach at kicking the beast.
I'm sure that point may have already been made in this thread, but like I said before, I wasn't going to read 1300 posts to catch up. (did that already in the chuck thread). So sorry if I brought up old points.
)That clears up a little more TB. To answer your question, only about five months.
And I am starting to see your point. I have always just bumped the nic level and then tried a smoke every couple week until a hit a nic level that made it so I couldn't feel a smoke.
After reading what you have just said, I guess that's not the best approach at kicking the beast.
I'm sure that point may have already been made in this thread, but like I said before, I wasn't going to read 1300 posts to catch up. (did that already in the chuck thread). So sorry if I brought up old points.
I feel in my heart that I can never smoke another cigarette, so I won't. I was as addicted a person as you'd ever want to meet. After major surgery for a 95% clogged carotid artery that doctors said was the result of smoking, I finally quit on July 17, 2007. Staying away from cigarettes was total hell for months. I never want to repeat that experience.
My guess is I've quit dozens of times over the years. I've been off 43 days, 85 days, six months. I always caved in. Hypnosis, patches, gums, lozenges .. I did them all to no avail. Snus was and is my salvation. I non-stop use snus and dissolvable tobacco, plus some nasal snuff along with my e-smoking.
I also puff a pipe several times each day and love to puff the occasional cigar. The only absolutely forbidden pleasure is inhaling tobacco smoke.
That's where I'm coming from in seeking my answer.
My guess is I've quit dozens of times over the years. I've been off 43 days, 85 days, six months. I always caved in. Hypnosis, patches, gums, lozenges .. I did them all to no avail. Snus was and is my salvation. I non-stop use snus and dissolvable tobacco, plus some nasal snuff along with my e-smoking.
I also puff a pipe several times each day and love to puff the occasional cigar. The only absolutely forbidden pleasure is inhaling tobacco smoke.
That's where I'm coming from in seeking my answer.
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I should mention that producing WTA at 48 mg/mL was something that I did as a one-off for Bob... it was a very small quantity, less than 10 mL. Bob can't be killed by normal means (tobacco-wise), so he can handle such an insane level of WTA... Tobacco-wise, Bob is what we'd call a "professional".
Vaping 15 mg WTA all day is enough to put me in a very happy place. Perhaps if Bob had mentioned in the video a bit more precisely that 48 mg WTA is damned extreme (and he certainly hinted at it) and probably not generally a level that the great majority should mess with, there might be a bit less confusion.
Bob, perhaps you might consider putting up a video focusing on the concept of harm-reduction, and how various delivery systems compare to one another and to cigarettes?
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sorry if it seemed like a drive by slam dirt. Wasn't my intention.
I actually re-read and edited it a few times to try to make it not read like a slam.
I really do want to learn more about what you guys are doing, I will try to go back and read more carefully. If I can get my (through the roof) nic levels down and still not want a smoke I would be quite happy. And maybe my heart won't explode before I turn forty.
I actually re-read and edited it a few times to try to make it not read like a slam.
I really do want to learn more about what you guys are doing, I will try to go back and read more carefully. If I can get my (through the roof) nic levels down and still not want a smoke I would be quite happy. And maybe my heart won't explode before I turn forty.
highping,
I must qualify my answer to your question. I can't vape all day at much more than 24mg. My body reacts very unfavorable to high levels of nicotine.
Another point is you are getting more questions answered than I am.
I must qualify my answer to your question. I can't vape all day at much more than 24mg. My body reacts very unfavorable to high levels of nicotine.
Another point is you are getting more questions answered than I am.
sorry if it seemed like a drive by slam dirt. Wasn't my intention.
I actually re-read and edited it a few times to try to make it not read like a slam.
I really do want to learn more about what you guys are doing, I will try to go back and read more carefully. If I can get my (through the roof) nic levels down and still not want a smoke I would be quite happy. And maybe my heart won't explode before I turn forty.
I've got 14 posts in my blog that might represent a fair cross-section of the evolution of the current thinking in this thread. I don't currently agree with everything I've posted since new ideas and revelations always crop up, but the blog does represent a fairly concise summary that might help to bring one up to speed on what we're all going on about here (and it doesn't require all day and night to read).
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