So, has anyone seen any PA "Floor Tax" forms yet? I'm concerned!

[KODIAK (TM)]

So if I don't pay it I should be fine?

What does "fine" mean? Tax exempt?

Who knows?

Like Verb says... buy one of these babies. I think it'll look sweet on that provari v2.5.

 

[Rossum]

I just talked on the phone with PA dept of Revenue. Home

I used the Misc. Tax phone number. Beware, you need to enter your social to talk to a human. They were very helpful, though most every question I asked required holding and getting the assistance of the supervisor. She did a better job of hiding her smugness than I did at hiding my condescension, but I tried really hard.

1) Items that have multiple uses when purchased from a retail store that is not a "Vape shop" are NOT taxed. Screws, O-rings, wick, wire, loose batteries, VG, ect. are only taxed if sold at a "Vape shop." To quote the agent, "if it can be used as something else and it's not purchased at a vape shop, it is NOT covered."

2) Consumer to consumer sale of used durable equipment is PERMITTED.

3) My last question, which I thought would be the easiest, hadn't been asked before. When would the form for "Unclassified Importers" be available since the tax is active 10/01 and the first payment is due 11/20? I expressed knowing what information is required for the form would need to be known by 10/1 so I know what specific information about a purchase to save. She came back from placing me on hold and said something along the lines of, well, it shouldn't matter since you shouldn't be ordering from an unlicensed retailer. I was bit thrown. I replied with something like, I read the statute over several times and there is absolutely no indication of that requirement. There was a bit of fumbling on both ends of line, hum, ahh, but, ennnh, well, mmmm. My ability to remain pleasant had waned and figured I'd save further inquiry for another call. She threw out a "maybe mid-October" for when the form would be available. I thank her for her time and for the help.


Questions for a future call:
1) What are the restrictions on and what actions are permitted by "unclassified importers"?

2) When ordering from out-of-state, how would I know if a shop is a vape shop or not? Note: when asking about parts and materials, I asked what if I purchase VG from Amazon? That was not covered.

3) Liquid nicotine is typically sold by retailers that are not vape shops, the material they sell can not be used in a vaporizer as is, and has other uses. If liquid nicotine, in unvapable concentrations, is purchased from an out-of-state retailer, that is not a vape shop, is that purchase covered?

Thanks for doing this, but...

I wonder how much anyone can depend on a random employee's opinion when it was provided over the phone?

The Department of Revenue really needs to publish some official guidance.

 

[Verb]

Since they are slow on the forms, DOR published a document stating consumer submitted OTP tax for October, November, and December will be due January 20, 2017.

 

[Verb]

Updated Dept of Revenue OTP guide. Check it often as it keeps changing. http://www.revenue.pa.gov/GeneralTaxInformation/Tax Types and Information/Documents/tobacco_products_tax_qa.pdf

I'm very concerned about contradictions between the guide and the bill.
P.54 lines 9-12 of the bill defines an "unclassified importer" as a consumer who purchases from the Internet or mail order for personal possession or use from persons who are not licensed.

At the bottom of page 1 of the guide updated 10-26-16,

Are online sellers of electronic cigarettes required to be licensed?
Yes. Any online seller that sells electronic cigarettes into Pennsylvania must be licensed and must collect the tax on sales to a Pennsylvania retailer or consumer.

 

[MMcQ]

I'm very concerned about contradictions between the guide and the bill.
P.54 lines 9-12 of the bill defines an "unclassified importer" as a consumer who purchases from the Internet or mail order for personal possession or use from persons who are not licensed.

At the bottom of page 1 of the guide updated 10-26-16,

Are online sellers of electronic cigarettes required to be licensed?
Yes. Any online seller that sells electronic cigarettes into Pennsylvania must be licensed and must collect the tax on sales to a Pennsylvania retailer or consumer.

I see no contradiction.. They want to scare anyone who would sell into the state into registering and collecting their money, and if there's a case where the seller did not register with the state (opening the seller up to being in violation of the law) the consumer becomes responsible for coughing up their dough. Either way they just want the money... sad days I'm done buying stuff for a LOOOOOONG while. Basically only buying obvious vape only stuff exposes the consumer to this though. Everything with other use can be explained away.

 

[Verb]

Since the tax is on the wholesale price, Dept of Revune has stated that if I purchase a product from an in-state retail location I can assume the tax was paid. With them now attempting to license out-of-state direct to customer sales, can it be assumed the tax was paid for all online purchases? How would I know if the seller is licensed and paying the tax if it is on the wholesale price?

 

[BackDoc]

I see no contradiction.. They want to scare anyone who would sell into the state into registering and collecting their money, and if there's a case where the seller did not register with the state (opening the seller up to being in violation of the law) the consumer becomes responsible for coughing up their dough. Either way they just want the money... sad days I'm done buying stuff for a LOOOOOONG while. Basically only buying obvious vape only stuff exposes the consumer to this though. Everything with other use can be explained away.

the state and federal government specializes in ambiguity Verb, that's the fear/ compliance tactic .......

 

[BackDoc]

Trump.....God Save The Republic

 

[DC2]

Trump.....God Save The Republic

It may not taste good, but medicine never does.

 

[BackDoc]

Strength, Conviction, Truth and Prayer for tomorrow's Election, our once great nation is in trouble, and needs a transfusion....

 

[DC2]

It's like I said in another thread...
Medicine doesn't always taste good.

 

[Princessdee]

I was watching when they were in session and it occurred to me that they were putting off important stuff till after the election. All I saw was pretty much good-bye speeches from ones in their last term (and the next day, goodbye speeches from he ones that gave goodbye speeches yesterday) and votes on "should we send condolences" to this or that person's family after a death.
I think they were just eating up time.
I believe they re-convene the 14th.

 

[BackDoc]

And we pay them a hefty salary and benefits for life for their patting each other on the backs etc, meanwhile many more Vape shops in PA will close because of their overt negligence......today is a great day to be a patriotic American, and a sad day of defeat for the ones that seek to change and destroy it.......

 

[Verb]

The form is up.
http://www.revenue.pa.gov/FormsandP...Documents/Other Tobacco Products/rev-1809.pdf

 

[r77r7r]

Is it me or does that 40% look Really Stupid next to the .55 taxes for RYO's?

 

[zoiDman]

Is it me or does that 40% look Really Stupid next to the .55 taxes for RYO's?

Trust Me. It isn't just You.

 

[Princessdee]

Is it me or does that 40% look Really Stupid next to the .55 taxes for RYO's?

It isn't just you.

EDT: Zoid beat me to it

 

[Myrany]

Am I understanding this part right?

"Calculate the penalty by multiplying the total tobacco products excise tax due from Line 6 by the penalty rate of 5% per
month or fraction of a month for which the tax remains unpaid with no maximum penalty. Calculate the penalty by multiplying
the total use tax due from Line 10 by the penalty rate of 5% per month or fraction of a month for which the tax remains
unpaid with a maximum penalty of 25%."

It is impossible to not owe for a fraction of a month so the penalty is ALWAYS due?

Lets say I buy a product online and immediately fill out the form. A the least a few minutes has passed and that is a (minuscule) fraction of a month. If I am right what a total rip.

 

[Princessdee]

@Myrany
[QUOTE="What is the deadline for filing this form? REV-1809 Tax and Use Tax is due at the end of the month following the month of purchase. For example: If you purchase tobacco products on March 28th, you must remit to the Department, Tobacco Products Excise Tax and Use Tax by April 30th./QUOTE]

EDT: Still VERY sucky tho!

 

[Myrany]

@Myrany
[QUOTE="What is the deadline for filing this form? REV-1809 Tax and Use Tax is due at the end of the month following the month of purchase. For example: If you purchase tobacco products on March 28th, you must remit to the Department, Tobacco Products Excise Tax and Use Tax by April 30th./QUOTE]

EDT: Still VERY sucky tho!

yeah it is. The hubby and I were considering retiring to Philly. Thinking about 5 times about it now.