So here's the problem with the media and America.

[rothenbj]

About a week after signing up this section has been the first one checked at every login.

Good job. Of all the sections on ECF, the media and News and Legislation areas are definitely the most important as the Prohibitionists are going full bore right now, I think to build a case for the fda's deeming regulation and as support for state and local bans. We are falling behind, almost by the minute.

 

[Mutescream]

Good job. Of all the sections on ECF, the media and News and Legislation areas are definitely the most important as the Prohibitionists are going full bore right now, I think to build a case for the fda's deeming regulation and as support for state and local bans. We are falling behind, almost by the minute.

I think part of the problem (and why this doesn't seem to be as active as some of the other sections), is a combination of this being low enough in the list of sections and it being kind of a pain to navigate in the mobile version.

 

[swampergene]

Good job. Of all the sections on ECF, the media and News and Legislation areas are definitely the most important as the Prohibitionists are going full bore right now, I think to build a case for the fda's deeming regulation and as support for state and local bans. We are falling behind, almost by the minute.

Literally yes...by the minute.

 

[Little White Cloud]

Unfortunately, there is an abundance of people who have no interest in even knowing what something means, yet they will mass distribute articles on facebook or the like for their own piece of the sensation. It is a mystery to me why these people can't stop pushing buttons on gadgets. It seems to boil down to "look at me" no matter how stupid I look. It seems to have something to do with mass media and electronics, and some peoples need to "gossip". A suprisingly dangerous combination imo. I just read a recent negative article on ecigs that had 60,000 facebook shares, but if you read the article you can tell how absurd it is. idk. A person is smart yet people are stupid.

 

[2coils]

I think part of the problem (and why this doesn't seem to be as active as some of the other sections), is a combination of this being low enough in the list of sections and it being kind of a pain to navigate in the mobile version.

I wish I could agree. There have been many stickies at the top of all pages urging action from our fellow members. Some of these threads dont even get the action they deserve. Sadly, it will take mass prohibition to get some of our very own fellow vapers to notice a problem. I am extremely glad to see some new names lately down here in these sections. Maybe there is still hope!

As for the negative stories in the press, it looks like the American vaping Association is finially off the ground. There was an announcement naming The one and only Greg Conley as President. They have retained a PR firm to combat this nonsense. Please visit vapersplace.Com look for the replay link. There is an episode titled The American vaping Association. Sorry I can not leave a clickable link, my tablet will not allow.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

As I have pointed out numerous times, American vapers are facing a professionally-crafted brilliantly-designed PR campaign to establish basic "factoids" in the media: (1) vaping poisons small children; (2) BT is successfully hooking teens on tobacco cigarettes with deceptive advertising and kid-friendly flavors, and (3) vaping encourages adult tobacco cigarette smokers to smoke more tobacco cigarettes (or at least doesn't help them quit).

This PR campaign is being pushed by the seamless cooperation between the US public health community, American MDs who work for gov'ts at all levels as well as those in private practice, and the multi-billion dollar US Tobacco Control Industry that funds: research institutions, pays the salaries of researchers and Tobacco Control/Cessation staff, and bankrolls both conferences and scientific publications.

With billions of dollars at its disposal, as well as virtually every credentialed private sector and government expert reading from the same Public Relations playbook, it's perhaps nothing short of a miracle that the American Tobacco Control Industry hasn't yet completely banned vaping in the US.

Although I have no background myself in journalism, I've read hundreds if not thousands of stories recently which struck me as being written with no specific malice against vapers, but which ended up being chock-full of nonsense and junk science or statistics. Why? This is the drivel being served up by the US "health experts" in NGOs such as the ALA, gov't health dep'ts at all levels, MDs in private practice and (especially) MDs, toxicologies and public health experts employed at major US universities.

While there are some politicians who are doubtless effectively on BP's payroll, and some media outlets that are clearly run by editors and publishers who will go out of their way to ensure that all vaping coverage is as negative as possible, anyone who views this as a simple matter of either partisan leanings or media bias might do well to look more closely at the root causes of the problem.

In a nutshell, the U.S. Tobacco Control industry has successfully determined the nature and quality of virtually all the expert/scientific "information," and it uses the hundreds of thousands of credentialed Americans who are on its payroll to propagate its Public Relations campaign. Anyone who looks carefully at the nature of US coverage - as opposed to what we find in other English-speaking countries - should be wondering why things are so different in America, and whether this has anything to do with the size and scope of our Tobacco Control Industry.

Incidently, we would all also do well to remember that there are hundreds if not thousands of courageous journalists all over this plant who are risking their lives in order to report on the human rights abuses of governments and other organizations. Many of these jurnalists will themselves be tortured or murdered as a result.

 

[aikanae1]

I'm surprised. You should have a background in journalism. Your summaries have really helped raise awareness of the trends and threats.

The one thing that has brought vaping to this level has been primarly word of mouth and passion. There's no better advertising. No one can buy that or fake it. Ask about it, tell people about it, introduce smokers to vaping, write about it - elsewhere (stop preaching to the choir). Turn into a lobbyist and give them a run for the money.

It doesn't make a difference who's behind what if we won't see new equipment developed, garage mods and DIY banned. Russian 91's are pretty worthless if all we have left are single use cartridges (Vuse) like Illinois.

As I have pointed out numerous times, American vapers are facing a professionally-crafted brilliantly-designed PR campaign to establish basic "factoids" in the media: (1) vaping poisons small children; (2) BT is successfully hooking teens on tobacco cigarettes with deceptive advertising and kid-friendly flavors, and (3) vaping encourages adult tobacco cigarette smokers to smoke more tobacco cigarettes (or at least doesn't help them quit).

This PR campaign is being pushed by the seamless cooperation between the US public health community, American MDs who work for gov'ts at all levels as well as those in private practice, and the multi-billion dollar US Tobacco Control Industry that funds: research institutions, pays the salaries of researchers and Tobacco Control/Cessation staff, and bankrolls both conferences and scientific publications.

With billions of dollars at its disposal, as well as virtually every credentialed private sector and government expert reading from the same Public Relations playbook, it's perhaps nothing short of a miracle that the American Tobacco Control Industry hasn't yet completely banned vaping in the US.

Although I have no background myself in journalism, I've read hundreds if not thousands of stories recently which struck me as being written with no specific malice against vapers, but which ended up being chock-full of nonsense and junk science or statistics. Why? This is the drivel being served up by the US "health experts" in NGOs such as the ALA, gov't health dep'ts at all levels, MDs in private practice and (especially) MDs, toxicologies and public health experts employed at major US universities.

While there are some politicians who are doubtless effectively on BP's payroll, and some media outlets that are clearly run by editors and publishers who will go out of their way to ensure that all vaping coverage is as negative as possible, anyone who views this as a simple matter of either partisan leanings or media bias might do well to look more closely at the root causes of the problem.

In a nutshell, the U.S. Tobacco Control industry has successfully determined the nature and quality of virtually all the expert/scientific "information," and it uses the hundreds of thousands of credentialed Americans who are on its payroll to propagate its Public Relations campaign. Anyone who looks carefully at the nature of US coverage - as opposed to what we find in other English-speaking countries - should be wondering why things are so different in America, and whether this has anything to do with the size and scope of our Tobacco Control Industry.

Incidently, we would all also do well to remember that there are hundreds if not thousands of courageous journalists all over this plant who are risking their lives in order to report on the human rights abuses of governments and other organizations. Many of these jurnalists will themselves be tortured or murdered as a result.

 

[AveryW]

Something that I feel like is beginning to happen is that if anything, ecigs are causing the American public to slowly start waking up. I mean if you look at this in its entirety, the media will hop on the bandwagon of one story (full of half truths and lies), and when that isn't doing anything they move on to the next "big story". It seems, while you have a mass amount of people believing the mass hysteria, you have another, slowly growing group, realizing how hard the media is trying to dismiss ecigs. Who knows, maybe ecigs is what America needed not just for our health, but to wake us up and see how our freedoms are being stripped away.

Sent from my GS3

 

[Fulgurant]

I wish I could agree. There have been many stickies at the top of all pages urging action from our fellow members. Some of these threads dont even get the action they deserve. Sadly, it will take mass prohibition to get some of our very own fellow vapers to notice a problem. I am extremely glad to see some new names lately down here in these sections. Maybe there is still hope!

Many of our friends who frequent the more popular sub-forums are hip deep in the soothing waters of a certain river in Egypt. They believe those of us who try to bring issues from this forum to the forefront are paranoid conspiracy theorists. To be informed on vaping is to be a crank.

And the sad thing is that I'm not unsympathetic to that view. The truth in this case is so incredible, so depressing, so oppressive, that unless you are totally immersed, unless you have invested a near-inhuman effort in piecing it all together, you almost have to dismiss it. Ultimately that's our opponents' greatest asset: they're so irrational and so unscrupulous that their plans defy description.

Anyway, I must respectfully disagree with those who've argued that our problem is the public's stupidity. The public isn't stupid; it's just apathetic -- and understandably so. It's nearly a full-time job to sift through all the crap flying around in professional and social media -- and that in a time when many people need to work more than one real full-time job just to make ends meet. Wages are stagnant; bedrock living expenses continue to inflate. You can't even freaking smoke anymore to relieve day-to-day pressures without some pompous self-proclaimed populist proclaiming that you need to pay through the nose for what is universally acknowledged as a proletarian vice.

The only thing that's better now than it was 30 years ago, financially speaking, is that we have a proliferation of cheap, whiz-bang gadgetry to distract us in our precious few free moments. We can therefore hardly be blamed for indulging.

(Of course, I'm a card carrying smart-phone-and-social-media luddite.)

 

[rothenbj]

I think part of the problem (and why this doesn't seem to be as active as some of the other sections), is a combination of this being low enough in the list of sections and it being kind of a pain to navigate in the mobile version.

That's a good observation plus this site has gotten really, really big over the years. Heck. I had a hard time finding the smokeless section over 4 years ago.

 

[2coils]

Many of our friends who frequent the more popular sub-forums are hip deep in the soothing waters of a certain river in Egypt. They believe those of us who try to bring issues from this forum to the forefront are paranoid conspiracy theorists. To be informed on vaping is to be a crank.

And the sad thing is that I'm not unsympathetic to that view. The truth in this case is so incredible, so depressing, so oppressive, that unless you are totally immersed, unless you have invested a near-inhuman effort in piecing it all together, you almost have to dismiss it. Ultimately that's our opponents' greatest asset: they're so irrational and so unscrupulous that their plans defy description.

Anyway, I must respectfully disagree with those who've argued that our problem is the public's stupidity. The public isn't stupid; it's just apathetic -- and understandably so. It's nearly a full-time job to sift through all the crap flying around in professional and social media -- and that in a time when many people need to work more than one real full-time job just to make ends meet. Wages are stagnant; bedrock living expenses continue to inflate. You can't even freaking smoke anymore to relieve day-to-day pressures without some pompous self-proclaimed populist proclaiming that you need to pay through the nose for what is universally acknowledged as a proletarian vice.

The only thing that's better now than it was 30 years ago, financially speaking, is that we have a proliferation of cheap, whiz-bang gadgetry to distract us in our precious few free moments. We can therefore hardly be blamed for indulging.

(Of course, I'm a card carrying smart-phone-and-social-media luddite.)

I hear you. I even needed a week off from this nonsense. I have been consumed in this since joining the forum nearly two years ago. But we all know, the more people we wake up, the more hell we can raise. There are people who are not going to share the same opinion as we have, until their eliquid stash has gone dry. I gave up on them. I have been focusing my efforts on new vapers who truly don't know whats actually going on. I will also continue to be available to testify at ANY NJ legislation meeting. I have to say, it was truly a relief to speak in Trenton and get some of my frustration off my chest. I am ready for the next fight! GOOD POST BTW!

 

[AveryW]

I think part of the problem (and why this doesn't seem to be as active as some of the other sections), is a combination of this being low enough in the list of sections and it being kind of a pain to navigate in the mobile version.

I agree, but at the same time I feel it's more of a laziness. People see it and think, 'Well, I know I should help, but I'm just one person. I'm sure there are plenty more people that are already helping the cause.'

Sent from my GS3

 

[squee]

That's really untrue. There is a huge disconnect within both parties of what those in congress are doing vs what the base thinks. Every ecig story I've seen on "progressive" websites has support from the vast majority of regular people (pro-vaping). (DU and Daily KOS) and even the really stupid articles in Huffington have had 10:1 comments pro vaping vs. against.

That's why the links that I've sent to my reps are the ones from Daily Kos - the ones that are a sort of primer on what ecigs are from the GUS group, and the ones reminding them what we stand for. Harm reduction, being science- and evidence-based, etc... Oh, and I'll send along that one from the NIH too - just need to make some bullet points to send with the link, in case they have a short attention span or limited time to spend on just one email

Also, I've been thinking about this lately - does anyone have put together a decent outline of facts vs media distortions, including who's quoted, what affiliations they have and where their $ comes from? (You know, like this verifiable snippet of BS (with link) from Mr B, who works for Tobacco Smokers are Evil, Inc, which gets its funding from Take My Drugs, Please LLC). Because I would really like to get it laid out, somewhat briefly, and send it all to Rachel Maddow and maybe Chris Hayes as well. Maddow loves to go back and trace the funding and players for how A got to Z and you didn't even know you were being played by the alphabet.

What got me started on this idea was a press release/article that came out from Loyola Sch of Medicine. (http:// loyolamedicine.org /newswire/news/e-cigarettes-poor-smoking-cessation-tool-use-19-harmful-chemicals-loyola-doctor-says )

Everything in it was not only half-truths or misleading nonsense but actual verifiable lies. Seriously. They said that PG is a hazard if inhaled! (no mention of all the drugs that are dispensed with an inhaler and CDC considers it GRAS). The article said that PG is what gives the ecig it's "smoke" (that would be the VG really). And while they didn't know the long-term effects of PG inhalation, they do know that it's on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and that if inhaled, you need to go outside into fresh air immediately or some such nonsense - but cdc.gov listing for PG says: There is no workplace or environmental standard for propylene glycol. FDA considers an average daily dietary intake of 23 mg/kg of body weight to be safe for persons 2-65 years of age

But it makes you wonder, not only why they are crapping out such a pile of poo but why are they putting out anything at all. What does Loyola Sch of Medicine or any doctor over there have to do with any of this? What compelled them to conduct this "interview" within their own school and spew it forth? Esp considering how little actual, factual information they have, even about how they work - does the school get money from GSK? does the dr? Is he just an insecure twit who put out something to jump on the bandwagon and trying to get himself some facetime on cable news? What?

Anyway, does anyone have anything like that compiled already or the beginnings of one?

 

[Little White Cloud]

But it makes you wonder, not only why they are crapping out such a pile of poo but why are they putting out anything at all. What does Loyola Sch of Medicine or any doctor over there have to do with any of this? What compelled them to conduct this "interview" within their own school and spew it forth? Esp considering how little actual, factual information they have, even about how they work - does the school get money from GSK? does the dr? Is he just an insecure twit who put out something to jump on the bandwagon and trying to get himself some facetime on cable news? What?

Anyway, does anyone have anything like that compiled already or the beginnings of one?

Why funding of course. Medical departments in universities are known to get funding from BP. Like one professor I saw endorsing the use of ADHD drugs for children. He admitted they get major funding from BP. I think this guy was from Stanford University.

 

[Mutescream]

I wish I could agree. There have been many stickies at the top of all pages urging action from our fellow members. Some of these threads dont even get the action they deserve. Sadly, it will take mass prohibition to get some of our very own fellow vapers to notice a problem. I am extremely glad to see some new names lately down here in these sections. Maybe there is still hope!

The stickies have the same effect as advertising/spam/telemarketing... It's in your face, when you might not be in the mindset to check it out. I'm a curious person fundamentally, and I like to analyze things and explore where they will go on an intellectual/philosophical path... Even I am not always in the mood for that sort of thing, though.

It's kind of a layout thing, but everyone has their different ideas on priorities and how things should be set up.

As for the negative stories in the press, it looks like the American Vaping Association is finially off the ground. There was an announcement naming The one and only Greg Conley as President. They have retained a PR firm to combat this nonsense. Please visit vapersplace.Com look for the replay link. There is an episode titled The American Vaping Association. Sorry I can not leave a clickable link, my tablet will not allow.

Cool. My internet time is a bit limited, but I will try to check it out.

Many of our friends who frequent the more popular sub-forums are hip deep in the soothing waters of a certain river in Egypt. They believe those of us who try to bring issues from this forum to the forefront are paranoid conspiracy theorists. To be informed on vaping is to be a crank.

When one has become too invested in the lie, it can become a bit overwhelming for them to realize what a contributor to the problem they really are, I would think.

And the sad thing is that I'm not unsympathetic to that view. The truth in this case is so incredible, so depressing, so oppressive, that unless you are totally immersed, unless you have invested a near-inhuman effort in piecing it all together, you almost have to dismiss it. Ultimately that's our opponents' greatest asset: they're so irrational and so unscrupulous that their plans defy description.

I would agree with that, if I had not seen so many instances of willful ignorance, when substantiated evidence is presented time and again and ignored so blithely.

Anyway, I must respectfully disagree with those who've argued that our problem is the public's stupidity. The public isn't stupid; it's just apathetic -- and understandably so.

When you take apathy to the logical extreme, program people to "think" in a certain way/absorb/retain information in a specific way, and the end result is such ambivalence to new information when it contradicts almost everything what one has been told on a fundamental level, and is just ignored out of hand... Well, it may be something more complex than mere stupidity, but I'm not sure there is an actual name for it yet, and the end result is really the same.

It's nearly a full-time job to sift through all the crap flying around in professional and social media -- and that in a time when many people need to work more than one real full-time job just to make ends meet. Wages are stagnant; bedrock living expenses continue to inflate. You can't even freaking smoke anymore to relieve day-to-day pressures without some pompous self-proclaimed populist proclaiming that you need to pay through the nose for what is universally acknowledged as a proletarian vice.

Well crap, nothing I can argue with there.

The only thing that's better now than it was 30 years ago, financially speaking, is that we have a proliferation of cheap, whiz-bang gadgetry to distract us in our precious few free moments. We can therefore hardly be blamed for indulging.

(Of course, I'm a card carrying smart-phone-and-social-media luddite.)

lol. I refuse to buy a smart phone. I am only willing to become so dependent on an electronic device.

 

[AgentAnia]

....Anyway, does anyone have anything like that compiled already or the beginnings of one?

I started a file, "Agent Takes Names," on 12/7/13. It lists names and affiliations of people I've come across in my daily reading (mainly US, Canada, and EU) who have made or perpetuated misstatements or lies in the media or press releases about ecigs or spread ANTZ propaganda. It includes professionals, "experts," legislators, and representatives of organizations. It does not include private, non-affiliated persons who are not represented as "expert" and who are giving an opinion.

So far the list comprises well over 300 names. This is from *my* daily reading only. I'm sure if someone like, say, Roger_Lafayette kept a similar list, it would have thousands of names already...

 

[aikanae1]

One thing I'd like to see and I'm not sure this is the place to put it, but a listing of basic points for the vaping community to make. That way we're on the same page. This is an example;

* Walk down the alcohol aisle, adults like flavors too.

* Getting away from tobacco flavor is important to end the addiction to smoking.

* Eliquid contains a total of 4 ingredients, 3 of which are also found in toothpaste

* 80% of most eliquid contains 2 ingredients which is also use in hospital airconditioning. So if you've ever been to a hospital, you've also breathed the same thing. They are also found in medical inhalers.

* There are 4 known ingredients in elquids. There are 4,000 UNKNOWN ingredients in cigarettes. Which do you think is safer?

* Harm reduction is an accepted practice for addiction; methodrone (can't remember the rest)

* Nicotine gums and lozenges are familiar and attractive to young children, not easily packaged in child safe packaging, and must be palatable for use. Nic eliquids are very bitter to taste and child proof packaging is easily available.

* Software exists to validate age online. Signature and ID is available for delivery.

* Smoking rates are down for the first time in 30 years, including teen smoking. If vaping was a gateway, wouldn't those rates be rising instead?

* If cigalikes cause confusion for business owners or "renormalize" smoking, then ban cigalikes (doubtful). Most vapors do not use equipment than can be mistaken for a cigarette.

* Vaping was designed by ex-smokers for smokers. Much like AA was designed by ex-alcoholics for alcoholics. It is impossible for someone to develop an effective cessation program/device who has never been addicted to the substance. That's like a chef treating a heart attack.

* Innovation has developed various devices that allow smokers to customize their vaping experience based on their own needs and level of addiction. This is not a one-size fits all problem.

* The rapid growth in vaping proves that smokers want to quit smoking and feel healthier. The fact that cessation products in the past have had a high faiure rate can not be attributed to lack of motivation for their failures.

* Many "approved" cessation products have a higher failure rate than what would be allowed for treatment of any other medical illness. Some "approved" cessation products have caused great harm and death (Chantrix). It's questionable as to why these products are still sold or reccomended.

* It's not unheard of for new products to be allowed, and then questioned based only on adverse events (Chantix). No smoker has died or experienced any long term illness related directly to vaping (unlike Chantix).

* Full strength nicotine is not sold at retail. The "pure" nicotine sold relates to the level of purity according to a certificate of anaylisis (99%) meaning everything is pharmaceticul grade and not industrial grade. "Pure" includes the dilution fluids (pg/vg).

*Regulation destroys many small independent business' (> 4,000) and supports a few (< 10) multi-national corporations that can afford millions of dollars for patents and FDA applications. The FDA does not require full disclosure of ingredients of these few companies. How much nicotine is in a pack of cigarettes? Nobody knows. The level of safety is likely reduced, not increased.

* Vaping is enviromentally friendly. No butts, ashtrays, litter or mess created by vaping. No lingering stinky tobacco odors. Most equipment can be recycled. The FDA and major cigarette companies are pushing for regulations that will increase unneccessary disposables and waste.

* Nicotine is not a tobacco product. It is found in a wide variety of other plants. It is natural. Cigarettes are a tobacco product and cause harm.

* The expense of enforcement will be a nightmare because many of the products used can be made in a garage. Importation of nicotine is wide open to black market abuse. So how's that drug war been working?


I'm sure there's tons more. But vapers should be pointing out the positives (compared with cigarettes) at every available opportunity. 2 second sound bite ready.

 

[swampergene]

All very good stuff, but the "4 things" in e-juice part is tricky because it's not entirely true and I think we need to be more specific about this or it's going to get thrown back in our faces at some point, especially where allergies to certain flavoring components could be a real and honest issue for some. Generally, it's correct but "flavorings" is not a single item and this was thrown back at me once in a discussion. I saw some juices at a smoke shop the other day and the list of ingredients took up 3/4 of one side of the box it came it.

 

[aikanae1]

All very good stuff, but the "4 things" in e-juice part is tricky because it's not entirely true and I think we need to be more specific about this or it's going to get thrown back in our faces at some point, especially where allergies to certain flavoring components could be a real and honest issue for some. Generally, it's correct but "flavorings" is not a single item and this was thrown back at me once in a discussion. I saw some juices at a smoke shop the other day and the list of ingredients took up 3/4 of one side of the box it came it.

Consider the audience. They are generally not vapers nor smokers. Most don't care about validity or public health. This is a 2 second sound bite on the level as their comment of "same ingredient in anti-freeze". This is not about a detailed study. Self doubt gets us nowhere.

 

[Jake6731]

I think it all depends on how detailed you want to get. Like what's in a glass of water? Water or is it two parts Hydrogen and one part Oxygen?
I have no idea what all is in beer