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So what IS high voltage vaping all about? (Everything you've wanted to know plus a bit of electronic theory)

Discussion in 'APV and Mods Discussion' started by BiffRocko, Oct 5, 2010.

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  1. BradSmith

    BradSmith Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 8, 2010
    Northern Michigan USA
    Thanks for the nice write up. It should help a lot of people. However, each person will still need to find their own sweet spot. For me right now I am hooked on a 3.7 box mod, 14500 trustfires with low resistance cartomizers from MadVapes 1.7 ohms. Not only do I get a huge hit it's also kind of a heavy draw. I like that as apposed to the sucking air through a straw effect I get with atties or regular carts. Who knows what I'll be hooked on next month though.
     
  2. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    Right now, I'm vaping my 3.7v box mod with a 2.5 ohm e2 carto that someone gave me. I never thought I'd be into cartos, but these taste almost as good as dripping and they're a hell of a lot easier to dry burn since you can see the coil.

    I've got some Cisco LR 306's and a pack of the XL e2s in the mail. There's always new stuff to try out. That's one of things I love about vaping.
     
  3. BradSmith

    BradSmith Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 8, 2010
    Northern Michigan USA
    Cool, I think I'll have to give them e2 cartos a try. I still like to drip on a low resistance atty as well, but I was going through them too fast for my budget.
     
  4. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    Same here. My daily vape is a dark cloudy atty killer and I'm going through too many of them. Being unemployed at the moment, I had to find something cheaper to get me by until I find a new job.
     
  5. bluebottle7

    bluebottle7 Full Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 16, 2009
    What is the reason manufacturers generally use the higher resistance atomizers? I've been LR exclusive for some time now and haven't noticed much difference in life span compared to the HR. Is it just me?
     
  6. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    To give people more choices and satisfy different people's preferences for vaping at different wattages. If I had to guess, I'd say the reason most mass produced units come in a lower voltage with mid level resistance atomizers is to give people a cooler vape. Throat hit can get pretty out of control at higher wattage. They're likely looking to not alienate new users with an overly harsh hit.

    When I first got my PV and let friends try it, I quickly learned I had to teach them how to vape it. Most people would try to suck on it hard, like an analog, and end up coughing and hurting their throat. This was with an eGo with a 2.5 ohm atty. I can't imagine how bad they would have hurt themselves if I handed them a 5v device with a regular atty.
     
  7. BradSmith

    BradSmith Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 8, 2010
    Northern Michigan USA
    I wonder if I could get away with using two 14500's without a voltage resistor if I used a high resistance atty?
     
  8. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    I think you mean voltage regulator. A voltage regulator is going to provide a consistent output voltage (eg. dropping a 7.4v source to 5v at a different point in the circuit), but using a higher resistance atty will not change the voltage from 7.4v. It will reduce the overall wattage versus a lower resistance atomizer though.

    When it comes to vaping, that final power calculation is what we really care about in terms of performance. As BuzzKill explained earlier, it translates directly to how much heat comes out of the coil.
     
  9. Drevly

    Drevly Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 19, 2010
    Janesville, Wisconsin
    Hi Biff, I too, have to chime in with the others on how awesome it was for you to go to the trouble of compiling all this info & sharing it. Now, you just might be the person to put this question to, :) as I wasn't really sure of exactly where it should go. Ok, here it is: I just recently got my first mod, a Sabre 5V. So far I've used with it a standard 510 atty...in fact a newer one, and have dripped a good amount of juice to it. What I think I'm noticing is that after 2-3 vapes, the flavor is pretty much gone & what's left is just kind of a burnt hit, without the flavor. It would seem then, that w/the high power mods, you just need a lot of dripping to keep up with it. Or, is there a trick/method that I am just not aware of? I guess if you just have to drip that often with these, then that's just the way it is, altho it isn't prefered of course. Going the way I've experienced it so far, it would seem new drips would be needed about every 3 vapes or so. Hard to believe that's right tho, as I did a lot of research on them before getting one & hadn't seen this mentioned. (and it would be a serious drawback to functionality, I'd think.) Keeping in mind that I AM a 5V noobie in usage however, I think I need some feedback on this. Thanks in advance to you & anyone else with insight to share.
     
  10. BradSmith

    BradSmith Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 8, 2010
    Northern Michigan USA
    Yah. I meant regulator. If I used two 14500's with a 5.5ohm high resistance atty it would work out to about ten watts right? 7.4*7.4=54.76 54.76/5.5=9.956 Is this right? It seems like it would be pretty close to a 5volt with a standard 3.5 ohm atty. Am I missing something? I would use a 5amp switch. One of the horn switches in a 3 aa box. Has anybody tried this? It seems like a very simple way to get 1800mahs and a five volt type experience.

    Wow, I'm already using the math from the OP. But I wonder, AM I missing something?
     
  11. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    @Drevly: Yes, more power means more heat and more juice. I was going through 2-3 ml a day with my eGo and normal attys. That went up to 4-5 a day with 3.7v + LR or 5v with standard attys.

    @Brad: That sounds about right, but my knowledge of electronic theory is only at a novice level. I learned it many years ago and most of it has trickled out of my brain.
     
  12. Quick

    Quick Full Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 6, 2009
    New Jersey
    Thanks for the info.. Im looking to get a SB so whats the difference with a LR and a HR running at 6V?
     
  13. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    6v would kill an LR atty pretty quickly. You'd want to use a standard atty or a high voltage atty. If you know the resistance of the atomizers you're considering, you could use the formula to calculate the exact difference in wattage. :D
     
  14. kushka

    kushka Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 23, 2010
    Marietta, GA
    Thanks BiffRocko - I was beginning to understand (then bring up ohms made me lose it) but anyway - my question has to do with the proper equipment for the device.

    I started with cartomizers, and dripped just when mixing DIY to taste a new brew. I have a 5v a 3.7, egos, and rn4081s. I mostly use the cheapest cartomizers I can find. It seems they do not last as long at 5V as with the others. I bought some cheap LR cartomizers. They did not last long at all.

    The other day I decided to really try dripping - I only had 3 cheap atomizers. But, I ended up loving it - especially with my 5v, but 24 hours later I had killed all three.

    I decided that I was using the wrong type atomizer on the 5V and should be using HR - but now I understand what I would be doing then is just basically turning my 5V into a 3.7 vape.

    Is it true that low resistant attys and 5V vapping kill atomizers faster then HR resistant or 3V vaping? If that is true is there a kind of atty or carto that would last a long time at 5V - while still giving a 5v vape?
     
  15. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    The reason a LR atty isn't going to last as long in a high voltage device is the amount of heat produced. The wire that makes up the coil is very thin. More heat is going to degrade it faster eventually causing it to break. It's similar to running a light bulb rated for low wattage in a lamp that puts out high wattage. The overload is going to cause the filament in the bulb to pop.

    By the way, if anyone with more electronics knowledge than me sees me saying something incorrect, please correct me. As I said, my knowledge of electronic theory is not advanced and I'd love to learn more too. :)
     
  16. Zenfrogs

    Zenfrogs Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 13, 2010
    Virginia
    great thread! thanks for taking the time to write this up!
     
  17. BuzzKill

    BuzzKill Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Nov 6, 2009
    Central Coast Ca.
    One other area that should be mentioned is that LR attys require more CURRENT than regular attys ( 3 ohms or so ) this will drain the battery faster and will stress the battery harder ( beyond the design limits actually ! )

    That is why controlling the voltage turns out to be a better design , you can fine tune the voltage to the atty resistance and keep your current lower and closer to the design requirements of the battery's , most batteries we use ( well say 1 16340 or CR123 etc. ) have a MAX current discharge rate that they are designed for , in many cases this rating is exceeded ( Chinese batteries do not have the rating's on them , or say a 510 or 901 style batt or Ego etc. )

    Anyhow this is something else to consider , LR atomizers are great and get the power up there into the 7-9 watts area but also stress the batteries beyond their design limits .
     
  18. BiffRocko

    BiffRocko Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 2, 2010
    San Diego, CA USA
    Agreed. I've decided that all of my battery purchases from this point forward will be the AW LiMN high drain variety. From what I understand, the fact that they store less charge (less mAh) doesn't translate directly to shorter battery life because it can keep up with the current draw. Do I have that right?
     
  19. o4_srt

    o4_srt Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 2, 2010
    Lancaster, PA
    GREAT post! I, myself, got tired of explaining how it works. This thread was definitely needed, perhaps a mod could make it a sticky?

    @brad: in order to achieve 5 volts from 14500 batteries, they need to be wired in parallel (positive end to negative end), producing a Vt of 7.4 volts. This is usually regulated down to the required voltage.

    Additionally, each 14500 battery is (usually) rated around 900 mah. In order to achieve 1800 mah from two batteries, you need to wire them in parallel (both positive ends tied to together, both negative ends tied together). However doing so will only net 3.7 volts (voltage is constant in a parallel circuit, current is constant in a series circuit).

    Using 2 14500 batteries in series will net roughly 900 mah, still a lot better than any standard ecig battery produced.


    However, using a step-up converter could solve the problem, boosting the 3.7v output of 2 14500 batteries to the voltage you require. But that adds circuitry that you are trying to avoid.
     
  20. humpty

    humpty Reviewer / Blogger ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2010
    HK
    Thnx for the info.
    Still don't get the point of HV attys though. Increasing resistance means less current. Are they supposed to offset a voltage that's too high?
     
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