So when did we start calling 'em personal vaporizers?

[Lithium1330]

call me old fashioned..........but i prefer to call it an e-cig.

in my eyes, that what they are........an electronic cigarette.......simple


but that is just my personal opinion. im not into all this ... kissing the FDA.......bolloks to em!

changing its name aint gonna make a scrap of difference. you could call an egg a cucumber but at the end of the day.......its still an egg.

the FDA etc are not stupid. do people really think that they will say "oh look, there is a device that acts in exactly the same way as a cigarette and even gives the user a hit of nicotine......lets ban it. oh no wait! its a personal vaporiser........thats perfectly fine then!"

if they are gonna ban them, they are gonna ban them..........full stop. which also begs the question as to why they would not ban the sale of cigarettes when they know for a fact the damage they do to peoples health!

if anything, they will just slap a tax on them.

E-CIG FTW!!

Have you ever listen a knife called a "murder weapon"? well legally it DOES matter how you call things.

What would you call them if they were of the shape of an onion? electronic cigarettes? or electronic onions? they are just vaporizers no matter what they look like.

 

[igetcha]

Have you ever listen a knife called a "murder weapon"? well legally it DOES matter how you call things.

What would you call them if they were of the shape of an onion? electronic cigarettes? or electronic onions? they are just vaporizers no matter what they look like.

if i got my e-cig and poked it deep enough into someones eye so it pierced their brain it would no doubt kill them........so according to you, an e-cig is also a murder weapon. so is a shoelace if i strangled someone, so is a dead cat if i smothered someone with it, so is a tv set if i smashed it hard enough over someones head etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

if you dont want to similate the act of smoking and get a nicotine hit then why exactly do you use e-cigs?

do pen styles look like cigarettes? no, but they are still an e-cig.


and where did i say anything about the legalities of calling it an e-cig? i didnt.......so read posts fully before responding

 

[TribbleTrouble]

I think that might work TribbleTrouble. It's a good idea. Is it something the vendors are aware of as a consideration at this point?

Totally! Steve at Puresmoker is changing the device names on his website, and JOYE (Manufacturer) has started using it on a couple of their starter kits. We need them all to do it though, if we are to have any hope for this approach to work.

 

[Sunshyn]

They aren't stupid, no, but the general public does tends to be. Wouldn't it be the public opinion and/or outrage be what's most likely to draw the authorities attention? We want to be under the radar rather than in the spotlight.

Other things get by the same way. Weed is illegal. Yet devices even the stupid people know are used for smoking it are not banned. However, e-cigs are in danger of being banned despite nicotine not even being illegal? It doesn't seem all that likely that nicotine will be banned by itself, and if so we're all sunk anyway. However, the devices are new enough that they are very vunerable. Since we do NOT want those to be banned we keep the part which is the main objection (and which is the drug the FDA is concerned over) away from the devices as far as sales go and the name away from the names which are directly related to that drug.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

if i got my e-cig and poked it deep enough into someones eye so it pierced their brain it would no doubt kill them........so according to you, an e-cig is also a murder weapon. so is a shoelace if i strangled someone, so is a dead cat if i smothered someone with it, so is a tv set if i smashed it hard enough over someones head etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

if you dont want to similate the act of smoking and get a nicotine hit then why exactly do you use e-cigs?

do pen styles look like cigarettes? no, but they are still an e-cig.


and where did i say anything about the legalities of calling it an e-cig? i didnt.......so read posts fully before responding

Do you have any worry about your country taking away your device? You speak like someone who does not have a care in the world about losing your gear. If that is the case, then you are lucky. As for over here in the US, it is a real concern. Also, over in this country, words often times mean more than realities (especially in the litigation world). If you change the name and marketing in the right way, it can make things easier on us with the FDA. By the way, you are giving the people at the FDA way too much credit. They are that dumb! If they weren't, they would be on our side.

 

[Sunshyn]

Should the vendors change the names, they will rely on the user community's recommendations more than ever. They will have problems pulling in any new business otherwise.

Ok, I'm new here, but I'm a vendor in a different field and have been since 1992. I've also run my ecommerce site since 1996. I assume there are people here regarded as experts and leaders of this community (or whatever you want to call it). Perhaps a group of those people could get together and draft a letter to the vendors so to make them all aware of the issue. Maybe they can also assure each vendorof additional support and recognition since they WILL take a big hit in the search engines and with new people looking for electronic cigarettes. That is a major concern for any internet merchant.
This forum and others like it already appear very high on the keywords these businesses need to attract the new customers who won't know what a vaporizer to look for it. If the forums and personal websites were to put up additional links and directories for those vendors who changed their names and marketing, the vendors would likely not be losing much business by taking these steps.

 

[igetcha]

Do you have any worry about your country taking away your device? You speak like someone who does not have a care in the world about losing your gear. If that is the case, then you are lucky. As for over here in the US, it is a real concern. Also, over in this country, words often times mean more than realities (especially in the litigation world). If you change the name and marketing in the right way, it can make things easier on us with the FDA. By the way, you are giving the people at the FDA way too much credit. They are that dumb! If they weren't, they would be on our side.

dont get me wrong mate, i truly dont want "personal vapourisers" (its a frickin e-cig!!! lol) to be banned. maybe im being a bit foolish in thinking that it wont happen, but i personally cant see them banning e-cigs but happily allow companies to carry on selling real cigarettes. to me, that just does not make sense.

and i truly dont believe that changing its name will make any difference.

but that is just my own personal opinion, and i dont want to be falling out with people just because i have a different view........honest!

but IF we HAD to change its name then i would much prefer to call it a Ergonomic Cylindrical Inhalation Gadget.........a bit long winded i know, but we could always shorten it by just using the abreviation lol

 

[TribbleTrouble]

dont get me wrong mate, i truly dont want "personal vapourisers" (its a frickin e-cig!!! lol) to be banned. maybe im being a bit foolish in thinking that it wont happen, but i personally cant see them banning e-cigs but happily allow companies to carry on selling real cigarettes. to me, that just does not make sense.

and i truly dont believe that changing its name will make any difference.

but that is just my own personal opinion, and i dont want to be falling out with people just because i have a different view........honest!

but IF we HAD to change its name then i would much prefer to call it a Ergonomic Cylindrical Inhalation Gadget.........a bit long winded i know, but we could always shorten it by just using the abreviation lol

I have no problem with you voicing your opinion, igetcha. You just sound like a person who doesn't have a care in the world about this subject. In spite of logic and reason, though, it is a real worry for us over here. A name and marketing change might not make any difference to you, but it will in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill over here. Don't worry, you haven't fell out of favor with me. An opinion is just that, an opinion!

 

[Di]

if it looks like a cigarette
lf it smokes like a cigarette
it is a cigarette.....

some have tobacco,
some have liquid nicotine,
still a nicotine delivery device......

I do, and always have called mine

a nicotine inhaler.....

I tell people that I am using this
-- my inhaler -----
to help me quit cigarettes,
it gives me a small amount of nicotine
when I inhale,
the output is vapour - not smoke,

I tell them my poor brain is so
stupid, it registers the vapour,
feels the nic,
and thinks I am still smoking......
I started at 12mg of nic,
after 3 months I now use 6,
slowly weaning off.

I have never had anyone refuse me to use my inhaler,
but I am always polite, and explain it first, ask their permission,
and after this above explanation, not only do they give permission, to use it, they also ask about it for their friends and relliatives who are smokers.

Di ..........

 

[igetcha]

Should the vendors change the names, they will rely on the user community's recommendations more than ever. They will have problems pulling in any new business otherwise.

Ok, I'm new here, but I'm a vendor in a different field and have been since 1992. I've also run my ecommerce site since 1996. I assume there are people here regarded as experts and leaders of this community (or whatever you want to call it). Perhaps a group of those people could get together and draft a letter to the vendors so to make them all aware of the issue. Maybe they can also assure each vendorof additional support and recognition since they WILL take a big hit in the search engines and with new people looking for electronic cigarettes. That is a major concern for any internet merchant.
This forum and others like it already appear very high on the keywords these businesses need to attract the new customers who won't know what a vaporizer to look for it. If the forums and personal websites were to put up additional links and directories for those vendors who changed their names and marketing, the vendors would likely not be losing much business by taking these steps.

there are 2 things that i can pretty much say that i am 100% correct on:-

1. everyone on this forum. in fact everyone in the whole world who vapes are ex smokers, or smokers trying to quit/cut down with the use of electronic cigarettes.
2. again, everyone on this forum. in fact everyone in the whole world who vapes probably discovered electronic cigarettes because they ultimately wanted to carry on smoking without the health issues, so when they saw the words "electronic cigarettes" they paid attention.

as someone else mentioned in this thread, how many of the thousands of e-cig users would have discovered them if they were called "personal vapourisers"?


i for one would not have shown them any interest what so ever for the simple fact that i would not have associated them as an alternative to smoking.

can you imagine how many missed sales there would be if they was not referred to as electronic cigarettes?

 

[igetcha]

I have no problem with you voicing your opinion, igetcha. You just sound like a person who doesn't have a care in the world about this subject. In spite of logic and reason, though, it is a real worry for us over here. A name and marketing change might not make any difference to you, but it will in courtrooms and on Capitol Hill over here. Don't worry, you haven't fell out of favor with me. An opinion is just that, an opinion!

yeah mate, ive no probs with you at all.........i love a nice debate! me and you have swapped opinions between ourselves with no malice what so ever..........the way it should be.


debates and opinions are good! but its annoying when some forum users just turn round and say to people "your wrong!"

though im sure ive been guilty of that myself a few times! lol


anyway, im going to bed so i will have break from debate until the morning


night night peeps!

 

[TribbleTrouble]

there are 2 things that i can pretty much say that i am 100% correct on:-

1. everyone on this forum. in fact everyone in the whole world who vapes are ex smokers, or smokers trying to quit/cut down with the use of electronic cigarettes.
2. again, everyone on this forum. in fact everyone in the whole world who vapes probably discovered electronic cigarettes because they ultimately wanted to carry on smoking without the health issues, so when they saw the words "electronic cigarettes" they paid attention.

as someone else mentioned in this thread, how many of the thousands of e-cig users would have discovered them if they were called "personal vapourisers"?


i for one would not have shown them any interest what so ever for the simple fact that i would not have associated them as an alternative to smoking.

can you imagine how many missed sales there would be if they was not referred to as electronic cigarettes?

The way I see it, those suppliers that are worried about sales volume right now won't be down with a name change. The ones who will make the change are the ones that are worried about all sales for the future disappearing due to a ban. When head shops changed the name from "...." to "Water Pipe", it made no difference in sales. In fact, it probably improved them because of the understand that they were finally safe from the powers that be due to that name change. It is all about what you care about the most, making a buck right now, or having your business survive the uncertain future. All I care about is being able to get the gear from here to eternity, period.

 

[Lithium1330]

if i got my e-cig and poked it deep enough into someones eye so it pierced their brain it would no doubt kill them........so according to you, an e-cig is also a murder weapon. so is a shoelace if i strangled someone, so is a dead cat if i smothered someone with it, so is a tv set if i smashed it hard enough over someones head etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

if you dont want to similate the act of smoking and get a nicotine hit then why exactly do you use e-cigs?

do pen styles look like cigarettes? no, but they are still an e-cig.


and where did i say anything about the legalities of calling it an e-cig? i didnt.......so read posts fully before responding

If I want to similate something or not is my problem, the reason for use e-cigs is also my personal problem, please don't make this a personal issue, if you want to take this to that low level then lets do it privatly.

To the rest of the community concerned about FDA, and powerful anti-smoker, just think for one second, what this devices realy do? smoke or vapor? the fact that this devices are shaped as a cilinder makes them a cigarette? if they were squared then they will be cigarettes or vaporizers? and the most important question: which side will benefit more the future of this devices, cigarettes side or vaporizers side?

Looks like at least two of the most popular suppliers and at least one manufacturer think that "Personal Vaporizers" is the way to go.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

The way I see it, those suppliers that are worried about sales volume right now won't be down with a name change. The ones who will make the change are the ones that are worried about all sales for the future disappearing due to a ban. When head shops changed the name from "...." to "Water Pipe", it made no difference in sales. In fact, it probably improved them because of the understand that they were finally safe from the powers that be due to that name change. It is all about what you care about the most, making a buck right now, or having your business survive the uncertain future. All I care about is being able to get the gear from here to eternity, period.

Tribble--Right on point, and stated as clearly as could be. IMO, Anyone that wants to refute this statement made here would have a hard time in doing so--Sun

 

[Lithium1330]

The way I see it, those suppliers that are worried about sales volume right now won't be down with a name change. The ones who will make the change are the ones that are worried about all sales for the future disappearing due to a ban. When head shops changed the name from "...." to "Water Pipe", it made no difference in sales. In fact, it probably improved them because of the understand that they were finally safe from the powers that be due to that name change. It is all about what you care about the most, making a buck right now, or having your business survive the uncertain future. All I care about is being able to get the gear from here to eternity, period.

Nobody can refute that in a logical way, there is nothing more to say realy, the same device called diferently allowed "bongs" to be virtually unbanable, thanks Tribble.

 

[Di]

the same device called diferently allowed "bongs" to be virtually unbanable, thanks Tribble. Today 01:57 PM

so , .... to waterpipe -----
in that case, why not, ----

vaporcig !!!!!!

Di .......

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Nobody can refute that in a logical way, there is nothing more to say realy, the same device called diferently allowed "bongs" to be virtually unbanable, thanks Tribble.

Thank you, Lithium, for the kind words! I wish the powers-that-be would feel the way we do about it. By the way, I will figure something out about getting you some supplies soon!

 

[Flitzanu]

my head hurts from reading....

but just my slightly uneducated (bc i didn't read every single post!) opinion is...what does america do best? take over the rights, slap a tax on it, and sell it in walmart.

i do fear the FDA taking our devices, yes.

but i'd also think that they (the govt) are paying attention to the market that they cover, and SOMEONE will find a way to make it their own, and sell them for profit in the US instead of letting everyone else get the money for it. hell...i'm watching the shelves for the new Marlboro and Camel branded e-cigs.

again...all made in China...and labeled as "made in the usa."

yes, i jest...sortof.

and just as a side note on the discussion of how people actually found out about them, and that most are smokers or ex smokers...i came across an article listed on Fortean Times Magazine | Weird News | Strange Pictures | Videos that was about a pub in the UK that was selling an ecig because of the smoking ban.

i looked it up...and sortof forgot about it, but meant to look into it...then a friend picked up a crappy one at our local mall, and then we discovered these forums.

suffice it to say, i'm hooked...and DON'T WANT to give up my ecigs...and i'm all for calling them whatever on paper...but much like igetcha...i want to call it my "ecig" to my friends...and "my inhaler" to the post office if need be

i think it's quite fun knowing i just barely got into this before the hype has started over the past couple weeks. i'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

 

[NY JETS]

igetcha, i share the same opinion you do on this subject. how could they ban e-cigs and not regular cigarettes? the questions i ask is this: If e-cigs came out and were strictly an alternative, without the claims of some to be safer and healthier than analogs, would there be any issue regarding banning them at all?

Because of the suggested health benefits of e-cigs, a whole commotion has been stirred up about their safety. However, you can still go buy tobacco and rolling papers. Somebody please enlighten me because I feel like I am missing an obvious point. Thanks-

 

[riddle80]

Ok, the main point here is that the FDA is having problems with the way these are being marketed. Improper marketing/labeling is why certain shipments are being seized at customs and being labeled as new drugs.

If you look at this thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/7473-ecigs-front-page-foxnews-com.html

You'll notice the quote Cash pointed out from the article:

Originally Posted by Fox News
In the U.S., the Food and Drug Administration has "detained and refused" several brands of electronic cigarettes because they were considered unapproved new drugs and could not be legally marketed in the country, said press officer Christopher Kelly.

He did not give more details, but said the determination of whether an e-cig is a drug is made on a case-by-case basis after the agency considers its intended use, labeling and advertising.

This is more a matter of securing the future of e-cigs and helping them get through customs than what term sounds better for marketing. Labeling these as healthy NRTs sounds better and makes suppliers more money in the short term, but in the long run it could be the final nail in the coffin. I applaud Steve for taking the step and changing the names. I'd rather get my PV in the mail than have the E-cigs be held in customs!