FDA So where is the outcry from the vendors?

[Katya]

Everybody says "Join CASAA" , which I did a long time ago. I write emails protesting,etc when a call to action is sent (usually without reply). However, I wonder how effective a group CASAA it is. Don't shoot me, just wondering. I haven't seen a lot of real successes (just in my small time observing).

I'm just really surprised the industry hasn't formed some form of self taxation to fund lobbyists (just think if every juice co and vape shop contributed 1-5% of sales/mo to a single representative group). Same things for us vapers - why isn't there a NRA for vapers? A group that is donation funded with only 10,000 member, all waiting on them to do something isn't the same as activist group funded by a $10/mo contribution. All vape vendors should be offering a discount to members of supporting organization (and particularly online vendors) to convince people that it's in their benefit to join and contribute. Money = power. I'm not believing that a few folks showing up at the local council vote are really going to sway anyone.

You can become a supporting member of CASAA--$5 minimum monthly--but you can always give more.

Donate to CASAA

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

No, those who have been requesting the extension (mainly lawyer types?) have not been using the official comment thing for that..

I believe there's some FDA contact info out there, like an email address...


I think the average Joe can also request an extension, but I'm not exactly sure of the correct wording & what-not...

No... You don't understand. I see people on here using the comment section of regulations to ask for an extension. They are not doing it through email or any other way. They are commenting through the comment section. Quite a few are using their comment for this. They are wasting their 1 comment by doing this.

What I don't understand is the fact some are CASAA members doing this. They aren't even following the advise from CASAA yet they are members.

 

[Katya]

I really hope we hear something official from CASAA soon. It's been two weeks--I understand it's complicated and they have to proceed with caution, but un update now and then would be nice. People are restless and want to do something.

I'm not even 100% sure about that 1 comment limit. Has this been confirmed? How do we know for sure that we only are allowed one comment?

 

[emily n portland]

I in no way claim to KNOW, but

I work in the land of red tape and loop holes so only being allowed one comment was my first concern too when seeing an official request for a limited comment. There is nothing I could find on the website -- in the terms, explanations or FAQ that specifically says one way or the other...but there are several places that allude to multiple comments being allowed, such as --

"Can I edit my comment after submitting?

Comments are not retrievable once submitted. To make changes, submit another comment referring to your previous comment correcting any errors and/or re-stating your position or opinion."

*regulations dot gov FAQ (underline added)

Have since seen information from a trusted supplier stating SFATA (and their lawyers) state unlimited comments allowed. Obviously for comments to be at all useful they should be well thought out, supported, relevant, etc....and that is why CASAA is asking folks to wait before posting willy nilly.

You don't have to include your name, email, etc, so I don't see HOW they could only allow one comment per person.

***just this ladies take on things***

 

[Katya]

Yup. That was my conclusion also--after doing some snooping on the site. I have no idea where this "one comment only" idea came from.

But I may be wrong--so don't quote me on this!

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

I in no way claim to KNOW, but

I work in the land of red tape and loop holes so only being allowed one comment was my first concern too when seeing an official request for a limited comment. There is nothing I could find on the website -- in the terms, explanations or FAQ that specifically says one way or the other...but there are several places that allude to multiple comments being allowed, such as --

"Can I edit my comment after submitting?

Comments are not retrievable once submitted. To make changes, submit another comment referring to your previous comment correcting any errors and/or re-stating your position or opinion."

*regulations dot gov FAQ (underline added)

Have since seen information from a trusted supplier stating SFATA (and their lawyers) state unlimited comments allowed. Obviously for comments to be at all useful they should be well thought out, supported, relevant, etc....and that is why CASAA is asking folks to wait before posting willy nilly.

You don't have to include your name, email, etc, so I don't see HOW they could only allow one comment per person.

***just this ladies take on things***

That's good to hear.

I just want to be very careful with all this. I got an email from a great vendor, with a request to do this. CASAA has ask us to wait on them to release a call to action before doing anything so since I'm a member of CASAA I'm sort of hoping they come forward soon with guidance. They will probably request the same thing and some guidance on how to make a comment that impacts how we need.

If we can comment more than once then I see no harm.

 

[WaynesWorld]

Saw this at Linkedin and thought I would pass it along for those that are interested

I am creating coalitions of e-cigarette and e-liquid stakeholders (vendors, retailers, manufacturers, distributors, etc.) to respond to FDA's Deeming Regulation. Contact me if you are interested.

Azim Chowdhury Attorney - Food & Tobacco at Keller and Heckman LLP
chowdhury@khlaw.com

Here's the link:

https://www.linkedin.com/groups/I-a...roups_most_recent-0-b-ttl&goback=.gmr_3836168

 

[Jman8]

Yup. That was my conclusion also--after doing some snooping on the site. I have no idea where this "one comment only" idea came from.

A few CASAA members, of which I am one, were purporting the "one comment" idea as suggestion to calm down and think before sending comment(s) to the FDA. Hard to tell if they believed it was only one comment allowed, but I think they did. Not sure where they got their information from as CASAA blog posts don't contain this info.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

No... You don't understand. I see people on here using the comment section of regulations to ask for an extension. They are not doing it through email or any other way. They are commenting through the comment section. Quite a few are using their comment for this. They are wasting their 1 comment by doing this.

What I don't understand is the fact some are CASAA members doing this. They aren't even following the advise from CASAA yet they are members.

I believe some are using this...


Agency Contact

May Nelson
Regulatory Counsel
FDA
HHS

may.nelson@fda.hhs.gov
877 287-1373
240 276-3904 (fax)

Center for Tobacco Products
9200 Corporate Boulevard
Rockville, MD 20850


There have been 2 extension requests posted so far, from Altria (formerly Philip Morris) & the Cigar Association of America..

Regulations.gov

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I'm not even 100% sure about that 1 comment limit. Has this been confirmed? How do we know for sure that we only are allowed one comment?

Dimitris (and others?) on VP Live radio in the past week or two stated that submitting more than 1 comment is technically possible & eligible..

The example he used for himself is that he wears multiple hats (consumer, vaping advocate, restaurant owner, etc.)..


You don't even have to use your real name/location.. You can submit as anonymous...

And even if the FDA went by IP addresses, what's stopping somebody from using their home computer, their work computer, their library's computer, etc.

One can also pretty easily change their IP address..

 

[Gato del Jugo]

You can become a supporting member of CASAA--$5 minimum monthly--but you can always give more.

Donate to CASAA

You can also make a one-time financial donation, with the option right above "Automatic Monthly Donation"...

 

[DC2]

To answer your Q, some retailers in some states have hired lobbyists - that's been done in MN very successfuly. But it's not the trend, and it hasn't gone national. You're absolutely right that it should.

I don't know much about this organization yet, but that is exactly what they are trying to do...
Vista Truth Inc. | A Vaping Industry Supported Proactive Advocacy Non-Profit

 

[DC2]

I'm not even 100% sure about that 1 comment limit. Has this been confirmed? How do we know for sure that we only are allowed one comment?

From what I've been hearing nobody is quite sure about this one comment thing.

 

[four2109]

Kodiak, that's the way this industry has been operating since the explosion in 2010. Marketing has all been done by ECF members, not vendors, so why not the lobbying too? Vendors have an anxious foot soldier following, doing their work for them.
My experience with local B&M's is that they really don't want their "walk in" customers to know about ecig forums and web vendors.
$$$$.

 

[DC2]

My experience with local B&M's is that they really don't want their "walk in" customers to know about ecig forums and web vendors.
$$$$.

And from a business perspective that makes all the sense in the world.
But making them aware of CASAA and encouraging them to get their customers to join makes even more sense.

 

[Kent C]

From what I've been hearing nobody is quite sure about this one comment thing.

I just called the FDA 'feedback/questions' number and got "Pat". I asked him: "With regards to the tobacco deeming doc...." Pat:"Ah yes..." ..."how many comments can an individual submit" He said: "As many as you want. You have a long time to comment and you could submit one a day, if you want. But as many as you want."

 

[DC2]

I just called the FDA 'feedback/questions' number and got "Pat". I asked him: "With regards to the tobacco deeming doc...." Pat:"Ah yes..." ..."how many comments can an individual submit" He said: "As many as you want. You have a long time to comment and you could submit one a day, if you want. But as many as you want."

So you called them and asked?
Why the hell didn't I think of doing that?

 

[Kent C]

So you called them and asked?
Why the hell didn't I think of doing that?

It took a hell of a search just to find the number (and it was for questions on 'comments' only) and after searching their faq with a variety of word combinations, none of which got anything even closely related.

At this point, I would say, anyone who wants to comment should - but to take into consideration some of the things CASAA has suggested about how some comments might do more harm than good.... but one could comment badly one day, then comment 'appropriately' the next several days. As was pointed out by someone (sorry don't recall but they were right on the money) there is a faq about 'editing' one's comment and the info was - you can't edit once submitted but you can make another comment and say it's an edit of an earlier comment. All questions about how many comments should have ended at that point but of course that wasn't the case. Probably not now either

 

[Katya]

I just called the FDA

I love you, Kent!

 

[Kent C]

I love you, Kent!

I know.