So why is it?.....

[AndriaD]

"Im not a smoker at all, never have been."

Why the hate against non-smokers who vape? I've noticed this A LOT around here. Is it because you think it may hurt the cause?

Probably because most of us are vaping in order to not smoke; those vaping who have never been smokers, I think most of us ex-smoker vapers are just wondering... WHY?? Why the HELL would anyone choose to fiddle with all this frustration, when they don't even have a deadly habit to break? Do they want to be HIPSTERS? And most around here seem to have some kind of grudge against hipsters, as the "over 30s" had against hippies 40-50 yrs ago.

In that same vein, those wannabe-ex-smokers who keep searching for a way to vape that will finally free them of cigarettes, might be excused for going to absurd lengths to try and find it (anything over 20w is, to me, completely absurd, but most would find 100w+ to be not only absurd but completely ridiculous) -- those who have no deadly habit to break going to those same absurd lengths are simply THEMSELVES ridiculous, victims of hype and their own ridiculous desire to be COOL.

I have no particular feeling one way or the other about non-smokers who choose to vape; but non-smokers who choose to vape just because they want to "blow cloudz bro" are just... dumb. Silly. Ridiculous. And yes, might "harm the cause" due to those "monster cloudz bro" which apparently even other vapers find offensive, for some reason.

Andria

 

[Shotglass]

- it is a personal choice.

Which is exactly my point. It's a personal choice. One that offers ex-smokers and non-smokers many more options than previously available but still a PERSONAL choice.

I have the knowledge, experience and ability to create a build that will give me a comfortable vape at > 150w on my SMY180. I choose to vape @ ~ 35w - 40w for extended battery life and lower juice consumption and still get 'killer clouds bro'. If someone chooses to vape at 150, 180 or 260 then it's their choice.



sent from tapacrap

 

[Thrasher]

Which is exactly my point. It's a personal choice. One that offers ex-smokers and non-smokers many more options than previously available but still a PERSONAL choice.

I have the knowledge, experience and ability to create a build that will give me a comfortable vape at > 150w on my SMY180. I choose to vape @ ~ 35w - 40w for extended battery life and lower juice consumption and still get 'killer clouds bro'. If someone chooses to vape at 150, 180 or 260 then it's their choice.



sent from tapacrap

But your very post has just validated all of the arguments, you can, but you don't need to


When a decision is based on the first cool video you find on YouTube personal choice has been removed, I'm willing to bet, 90% of the latest high watt vapors have never even tried to build a kick a## low watt setup. Can't call it a choice when you have a preconceived idea of what will or won't work and choose to not even try other option.

I can link videos of people fogging out the room with a dripper on an ego

Choice means choosing from several options after experiencing them, not saying "well I was told I need 150 watts so I vape at 150 watts, you mean there's other options?"

Most of the people you say have chosen this don't even know it can be done other ways lol

 

[Rocketpunk]

No body who is truly a steak person would ever order a steak well done.

"Nothin' brangs out th' taste ah steak lahk some good ol' ketchup!"

"How tha hell you gonna mail me a sundae?!"

 

[Shotglass]

No body who is truly a steak person would ever order a steak well done.

"Nothin' brangs out th' taste ah steak lahk some good ol' ketchup!"

Ketchup?!?!?!?!? Sacrilegious [emoji36]

Just knock its horns off and let it see the grill on the way to the plate. [emoji106]

sent from tapacrap

 

[AndriaD]

I think the crux of the matter is that these "hipsters" have taken something which has saved our lives, and turned it into cheap entertainment. It was not invented for that purpose, it was invented to help smokers get free of thousands of deadly chemicals without having to suffer virtual insanity to get there. And now it's a competition sport of some kind, which *might* be just the inspiration for all the existing and proposed draconian regulations -- which might remove this life-saving technology from those who truly need it.

Andria

 

[Wruff]

"Im not a smoker at all, never have been."

Why the hate against non-smokers who vape? I've noticed this A LOT around here. Is it because you think it may hurt the cause?

All of you must learn that only ex-smokers can vape since we're so smart and health-conscience having smoked cigs for decades before vaping. We ex-smoker vapers reserve the right to tell the non-smoker vapers how dumb they are for vaping. I mean, I've got a real habit to feed here! I smoked for 30 years! This is saving my life! I EARNED THIS! Who do these non-smoker vapers think they are?!?!

All the non-smoker vapers should be as idiotic as we were and start smoking cigs instead. Period. And then maybe after they've smoked for a number of years then we may welcome them into our vaping club... MAYBE.

 

[Thrasher]

I know everyone else's angle, mine is slightly bent I know
Here's what annoys me personally about the high wattage crap.

They watch a video, wrap a coil brute force it with high wattage get some clouds and go " yea I'm a rebuilder now"

I still argue true rebuilding is being able to get maximum vapor by properly tuning the build at any wattage.

Here's a whopping 7 watts on a wimpy ego twist

 

[AndriaD]

I know everyone else's angle, mine is slightly bent I know
Here's what annoys me personally about the high wattage crap.

They watch a video, wrap a coil brute force it with high wattage get some clouds and go " yea I'm a rebuilder now"

I still argue true rebuilding is being able to get maximum vapor by properly tuning the build at any wattage.

I agree. My coils are all 1.3-1.6Ω, always fired somewhere around 10w (and I use 84% PG!). The vapor is sufficient; so sufficient, in fact, that when we're watching TV and I take a good hit, my husband then has to fan away the cloud -- and he's no kind of ANTZ at all, he LOVES that I vape instead of smoke, but he's also a man who enjoys watching TV, and doesn't enjoy having a cloud in front of it. I try to remember to blow it upwards, but when *I'm* involved in watching a TV show, I often forget.

Andria

 

[Bad Ninja]

I don't mind clouds when it's appropriate.

I love a good drag race, just not down a public street.

 

[Hannypoo]

Many don't understand why you would choose to possibly damage your lungs breathing chemicals or nicotine if you were never fighting the addiction. For smokers like me we got nothing to lose.

Why a healthy person would choose to mess with their breathing ( when they don't need to) is very hard to understand and just kinda goes against rational thinking.

"I only drink spring water and won't eat preservatives. But did you taste this artificially flavored frootloop vape using chemicals unproven to be safe for inhalation?"

For me vaping broke a 35 year smoking addiction I feel better but my lungs will never be 100% again.


But yes, more and more " I never smoked but I saw these guys on YouTube chuckin rainclouds and it looks cool so I vape now posts" is exactly what the feds said would happen and it will get used against us I'm sure

( see? we told you vaping would attract people who didn't even smoke!)

I've been smoking on and off since I was 13, but not enough to really say I was addicted or to now call myself an ex-smoker. I pretty much only smoked socially and when I was holding a drink in my other hand. I did buy my first e-cig to replace cigarettes, because I was having urges to smoke more. Still, I vape more than I have ever smoked in the past, and it's become an addiction that helps me deal with stress. I think it does the same for other people who may never have smoked at all. In fact, I have a friend who is an ex- addict who enjoys vaping because there's a ritual to peparing the coil and the tank, just like there was to preparing a bag of Moderated I have another friend who uses vaping to deal with a soda and food addiction. If vaping keeps people from using more harmful substances, even if they've never used them before, then more power to them.

Edit: Now why in the world was the word censored from my post? Weird.

 

[NancyR]

This is a post I wrote for my blog, (can't see rewriting what I already wrote) on my feelings about some of this topic.

I have taken my time with this post, as at first I was angry. Then I started wondering who am I angry at? The vapers who don’t know anything other than what they have been shown? That isn’t right, as they were only shown one way of doing things. So, then I must be angry at the B&M that only showed them that way? Wait, what do they know, who taught them?

It comes down to I am angry at US, at vapers who have been around and should have helped educate these B&M’s. We use to self regulate, make sure people were being safe and knew about the options out there.

What am I talking about? A couple weeks ago now I was at the rally in Olympia WA, most of the vapers I seen there where using high powered box mods and drippers. Now this is not a dig on cloud chasers, I may not like cloud chasing but that is something different.

If you have tried other things and found the above set up to be what you like, okay I can accept that, but most of the people I spoke to didn’t seem to know there where many other things out past the latest things like the sub-ohm tank and or drippers. Some didn’t even know there was an online community of vapers past facebook.

Knowing one of the things in the bill we were there against was a ban of online sales, and knowing my local shops don’t carry what I personally use, I asked one of the vendors there if they carried disposable attys. I had to hide the facepalm when the shop owner replied with a “we carry some ce4’s”.

Is this is the level of education of B&M owners? I wouldn’t have been surprised if they had said no or something about it being too old school, but to reply with they have clearos.

I am just as guilty with this as anyone else. We need to help make sure new vapers are educated and know there is online support and help. They need to know about groups like CASAA, about calls to actions, about safety. Most important tho, they need to know there are options out there and that not everyone uses box mods and rda’s, and that it’s okay if they decide they like something like a good ol carto tank or a cisco 306.

It is time we take control back, that we educate, help, and mentor those new vapers.

 

[AndriaD]

I've been smoking on and off since I was 13, but not enough to really say I was addicted or to now call myself an ex-smoker. I pretty much only smoked socially and when I was holding a drink in my other hand. I did buy my first e-cig to replace cigarettes, because I was having urges to smoke more. Still, I vape more than I have ever smoked in the past, and it's become an addiction that helps me deal with stress. I think it does the same for other people who may never have smoked at all. In fact, I have a friend who is an ex-.... addict who enjoys vaping because there's a ritual to peparing the coil and the tank, just like there was to preparing a bag of [MODERATED]. I have another friend who uses vaping to deal with a soda and food addiction. If vaping keeps people from using more harmful substances, even if they've never used them before, then more power to them.

Edit: Now why in the world was the word censored from my post? Weird.

They don't allow any discussion or mention of illicit substances, because that would then be searchable by those words, and link back to ECF -- they want no links of that sort.

I agree with you that vaping is and can be useful for a lot of very different things; we talk about tobacco harm reduction, but there are many kinds of harm, and if vaping helps a person to avoid any harmful behavior or substance, it's doing precisely what it was designed to do -- offer an excellent placebo; certainly for smoking, but perhaps a great deal more than that. Got no problem with that whatsoever, and I agree, more power to 'em!

I don't even really care if some bozos are using it as cheap entertainment, just because it is so much less harmful than many other activities that that sort of bozo might get up to... but if the sight of idiots exhaling cumulo-nimbus actually *is* one of the factors involved in all this idiotic laws and regs, I think that those of us using vaping as any kind of harm reduction have a right to be royally peeved with those bozos -- they might have cost some of us our lives.

Andria

 

[CardinalWinds]

Why the hate against non-smokers who vape? I've noticed this A LOT around here. Is it because you think it may hurt the cause?

Basically, yes. But It's not the non-smoking vaper per se. What adults do with there bodies is absolutely none of my business if it's not negatively impacting me. It's the young cloud chasing folks of questionable age who like to draw attention to themselves. And those clearly under 18 who vape at all...also drawing attention to themselves. It is now and will continue to hurt the cause.

I think the crux of the matter is that these "hipsters" have taken something which has saved our lives, and turned it into cheap entertainment. It was not invented for that purpose, it was invented to help smokers get free of thousands of deadly chemicals without having to suffer virtual insanity to get there. And now it's a competition sport of some kind, which *might* be just the inspiration for all the existing and proposed draconian regulations -- which might remove this life-saving technology from those who truly need it.

Andria

This is perhaps the most honest post I've seen concerning the real genesis of the negative reactions to certain vapers and styles of vaping. It's the first thing that comes to my mind when discussions of this sort pop up. For potential health reasons do I want to see kids vaping? Of course not! Do I have genuine concerns for people who come here flaunting builds that push the safety limits of their gear? Absolutely! Look, I'm all for personal freedom and as I already said, I would never presume to tell another adult what to do with their body, their lungs, their children...all of that.

But honestly, when soup comes to nuts, it's the actions of others that I perceive as a threat to the only thing ever to get me to stop smoking cigarettes that first drives my negative reactions.

 

[Sgt.Rock]

There are always gonna be differing opinions on low vs high wattage, Nic replacement vs "recreational" vaping, ...cloudz vs "normal" etcetera.

As a whole we will probably never get along totally as a community of vapers.

BUT--telling someone that vapes differently than you or for different reasons than you or does not meet whatever your particular point of view is that they are wrong or just plain insulting them is never gonna change anything for the better.

I vape to replace my 45 plus year tobacco habit
My daughter's fiance vapes to replace cigarettes...
My daughter (25 years old) vapes for fun and never smoked a cigarette in her life.
I vape between .5 and .8 on a mech all day
They both go low sub ohm and max vg and blow big clouds.

Do I care how they vape and why? Nope. As far as I'm concerned we're all enjoying vaping and it's all good.

The contentious attitudes of many here kinda remind me of all the arguments over the years about fast cars and hunters vs shooters.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I don't even really care if some bozos are using it as cheap entertainment, just because it is so much less harmful than many other activities that that sort of bozo might get up to... but if the sight of idiots exhaling cumulo-nimbus actually *is* one of the factors involved in all this idiotic laws and regs, I think that those of us using vaping as any kind of harm reduction have a right to be royally peeved with those bozos -- they might have cost some of us our lives.

Andria

How about let's place the blame where it belongs.

It's not vapers costing lives.
It's ignorance and greed of those pushing an agenda that causes the problems, not some
Neckbeard chuckin' clouds.

They could use a little tact and be courteous of others, but it's not their fault if some fruit loop brained citizen hates your vaporizer.
They should be more courteous as well.

 

[englishmick]

I think the crux of the matter is that these "hipsters" have taken something which has saved our lives, and turned it into cheap entertainment. It was not invented for that purpose, it was invented to help smokers get free of thousands of deadly chemicals without having to suffer virtual insanity to get there. And now it's a competition sport of some kind, which *might* be just the inspiration for all the existing and proposed draconian regulations -- which might remove this life-saving technology from those who truly need it.

Andria

I think you hit the nail on the head about what motivates us to be upset by these posts and similar stories. There's one difference between vaping and 50 other things we might be talking about. For a lot of us this really matters and we don't want to lose it. It's more than the usual old folks getting upset about the stoopid stuff the kids are getting up to.

The hipsters probably aren't the reason why the pols are trying to obliterate vaping, but they provide the pols with ammunition to use against us.

 

[englishmick]

How about let's place the blame where it belongs.

It's not vapers costing lives.
It's ignorance and greed of those pushing an agenda that causes the problems, not some
Neckbeard chuckin' clouds.

They could use a little tact and be courteous of others, but it's not their fault if some fruit loop brained citizen hates your vaporizer.
They should be more courteous as well.

Looking back 50 years I would have wanted to have the biggest baddest rig money could buy, just like I wanted the biggest loudest loudspeakers. Plus I would have wanted to impress my equally stoopid mates. I hadn't mastered courteous when I was 18 either. So I get what they're doing. I would have showed up in the new members section eager to tell the world about the mighty ball-breaking machine I was riding.

But at least I never had a neckbeard.

 

[jseah]

Ketchup?!?!?!?!? Sacrilegious [emoji36]

Just knock its horns off and let it see the grill on the way to the plate. [emoji106]

sent from tapacrap

That reminds me of a friend of mine from years ago. We had gone to a nice steak place and when he ordered his steak, he asked for the cook to "just warm it a bit on both sides".

 

[jseah]

I agree. My coils are all 1.3-1.6Ω, always fired somewhere around 10w (and I use 84% PG!). The vapor is sufficient; so sufficient, in fact, that when we're watching TV and I take a good hit, my husband then has to fan away the cloud -- and he's no kind of ANTZ at all, he LOVES that I vape instead of smoke, but he's also a man who enjoys watching TV, and doesn't enjoy having a cloud in front of it. I try to remember to blow it upwards, but when *I'm* involved in watching a TV show, I often forget.

Andria

Andria, you should just blow the cloud down towards the floor. The vapor is much heavier than smoke, so it sinks as it dissipates.