So why is it?.....

[Woofer]

Yep, exactly. The bozos don't care if vaping gets banned or regulated out of existence -- they'll just move on to the next fad, with never a thought for the poor smokers who've had choices removed thanks to bozos following a fad.

Andria

I agree to a point. But lets say that no kids vaped and no one cloud chased in public, do the ANTZ go to sleep? No they do not, they don't require real logical reason to fuel their agenda. I kind of suspect the more vapers there are the better the chance of maintaining the right to vape.

I could argue that vapers ranting about kids vaping like that redneckbeard vaper dude doesn't help the cause either.
ANTZ will say "see even vapers are concerned".

 

[Oberon75]

Because quite often they have the wrong reasons in mind, and they are not learning anything as a result.

There is far more to learn about vaping than 'turn it up'.

What if you have learned those things and still have to turn it up?

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[AndriaD]

I agree to a point. But lets say that no kids vaped and no one cloud chased in public, do the ANTZ go to sleep? No they do not, they don't require real logical reason to fuel their agenda. I kind of suspect the more vapers there are the better the chance of maintaining the right to vape.

I could argue that vapers ranting about kids vaping like that redneckbeard vaper dude doesn't help the cause either.
ANTZ will say "see even vapers are concerned".

You do make an excellent point, which is one reason that, even with my own beliefs about the fad-chasers, I don't get bent out of shape about it. The ANTZ have shown that they have zero compunctions about pure fabrication in support of their control-freak beliefs.

I guess it's fortunate that non-drinkers don't find anything entertaining about AA meetings.

Andria

 

[Oberon75]

I have yet to see an ANTZ propaganda piece regarding clouds. They already have their ammo against the industry they don't understand. The flavor chaser is more of a problem to them then clouds are. Do we all go to tobacco and menthol to take away their main arguments next to "It contains Nicotine"?

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[AndriaD]

I have yet to see an ANTZ propaganda piece regarding clouds. They already have their ammo against the industry they don't understand. The flavor chaser is more of a problem to them then clouds are. Do we all go to tobacco and menthol to take away their main arguments next to "It contains Nicotine"?

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Not me. That's just ONE reason I got into DIY.

Andria

 

[Woofer]

You do make an excellent point, which is one reason that, even with my own beliefs about the fad-chasers, I don't get bent out of shape about it. The ANTZ have shown that they have zero compunctions about pure fabrication in support of their control-freak beliefs.

I guess it's fortunate that non-drinkers don't find anything entertaining about AA meetings.

Andria

Thinking more on this is occurs to me that in some ways this is a classic "abused person" response. It is my fault I got that beating I made him mad.

 

[AndriaD]

Thinking more on this is occurs to me that in some ways this is a classic "abused person" response. It is my fault I got that beating I made him mad.

Hmm... not really, because most who make this argument aren't generally cloud-chasers themselves, so it really just boils down to more of the "if you don't vape just as I do, you're doing it wrong" mentality. Which is why even though I may hold those beliefs, I *don't* generally get bent about it; I'm generally more of a live-and-let-live sort of person, an attitude that seems to completely escape the ANTZ.

Andria

 

[Woofer]

I mean that attitude that if we were better more polite or what ever that we would not piss off the ANTZ.
That is a dead end street.

 

[Rossum]

Used to be that youd see the smokers just go off in a section away from people to smoke alone or with other smokers out of basic politeness. Nowadays at my college people just whip out their mods and vape pens and vape right in front of you or a crowd of people just because they can. I know some won't agree, but i still see what we do (vaping) as a habit, and a habit that belongs to us. Regardless if it doesnt harm them or not, I still think we should still be polite and not shove our habits in peoples faces.

Uh, no. Used to be people would SMOKE anywhere and everywhere. One of the things that attracts some people to vaping is that it's OK to vape in places where smoking is no longer acceptable.

 

[Rizzyking]

There is and always will be diehard antz to many things but we don't have to make things easier for them and sadly a lot of non smokers have taken up vaping as they predicted and guess what they are not wandering around with ego's or devices the vast vast majority of people use they generally have high wattage regulated or mech mods. Why those devices is it because they like the majority started at the bottom so to speak and progressed to find the vape that was best for them, no they saw them on youtube and are copying for no other reason then they think it's cool. They don't bother a lot of the time to get the knowledge to operate their chosen setup safely or sensibly as they go to a b&m and pay them to build their coils, they have no clue about battery safety just slap in what the b&m told them too and nine times out of ten when the chickens come home to roost on that pile of ignorance and they vent a battery they throw it and run.

So yeah that group make me angry because they are idiots and are doing a lot of damage because antz can only do as much damage as the they do if the public is behind them and the image that small group project of us as a general community is not one any non vaper wants to touch with a barge pole or support.

 

[Completely Average]

I agree to a point. But lets say that no kids vaped and no one cloud chased in public, do the ANTZ go to sleep? No they do not, they don't require real logical reason to fuel their agenda.

No, but they do need the support of the masses who are not part of their little bitty group to keep their agenda going.

Think about it.

If they said "We need to keep kids from vaping" and everyone responded "I have never seen a kid vaping" how much support would they get? If they said "These huge vapor clouds in public are a problem" and everyone responded "I've never seen anyone blowing big vapor clouds in public" how much support they would get?

If they say "We need to keep kids from vaping and people blowing huge vapor clouds in public are a problem" and people say "I just saw a pack of kids at the movie theater yesterday blowing these massive fog bank sized clouds as people with small children walked by", how much support do you think they'll get.


LOTS of people have an agenda, even you. But you need support if you want to push your agenda on others, and the ANTZ people you're so afraid off also need support. Sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that these issues aren't giving them the fuel they need to further their agenda achieves nothing for you and helps them further their agenda. You could argue that public cloud chasing isn't a problem until you're blue in the face, but the moment a non-smoker sees someone cloud chasing in public they're going to support the ANTZ crowd, not you. And if you're doing that public cloud chasing yourself then you're only hurting your own agenda.

 

[jseah]

You have people who are at the extremes in both sides of the argument. On the one hand you have the ANTZ who would like nothing better than to have vaping wiped from the face of the earth. On the other you have pro-vapers who take it to the extreme and think that because it is not smoking, even if it looks like it, then they should be able to do it wherever and whenever they want, with no regards to the feelings of others. You can even see it from some members of the board here. There was a thread where a business put up a sign saying "no vaping allowed" and some posted that if they were not allowed to vape, then they will not do business with that establishment. Or those who say that the vapor is just PG and VG and flavorings, and because the FDA says that they are good enough to be used in food, then no one should mind if having a dense cloud blown into their face.

The problem is we don't know what the long term effects of vaping is. While the components of ejuice may be harmless if ingested, we have no idea what the effects are in inhaling it. We simply don't have the 50+ years of long term study like we do with cigarettes. There are a lot of things that we never knew how dangerous they could be to people until decades after they were put into use (i.e. lead paint, asbestos).

For me, if they want to restrict me from vaping indoors and I have to go outside, I really don't have a problem with that. Just like with smoking, I am not going to intrude into someone's space. I've seen many instances where smokers, while standing in line outdoors for the concert or movies or whatever, will light up. When I was in that situation, if I wanted to light up, I would simply step off to the side away from other folks and light up. No need to be blowing smoke around other people if it would bother them. I'll do the same now that I'm vaping and not smoking. I'm not going to take the position that this isn't smoke so you should just accept me blowing it out at you and if you don't like it, tough. Even when I walk into a vape store, I would prefer not to walk into a store where it is so cloud filled that you can barely see further than 4 or 5 feet in front of you, even if the cloud doesn't burn my eyes or makes me cough.

If they want to restrict the sale of juice and gear to adults only, I don't have a problem with that. The industry is already self regulating to do just that. But don't be naive and think that just because you make it illegal doesn't mean that kids aren't going to get their hands on it. Kids can easily get alcohol, cigarettes and other stuff that is either restricted to adults only or outright illegal.

 

[jseah]

LOTS of people have an agenda, even you. But you need support if you want to push your agenda on others, and the ANTZ people you're so afraid off also need support. Sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending that these issues aren't giving them the fuel they need to further their agenda achieves nothing for you and helps them further their agenda. You could argue that public cloud chasing isn't a problem until you're blue in the face, but the moment a non-smoker sees someone cloud chasing in public they're going to support the ANTZ crowd, not you. And if you're doing that public cloud chasing yourself then you're only hurting your own agenda.

To the general public, their view is heavily influenced by the media. And every time the news has a spot talking about e-cigs, they always show the 20-somethings blowing massive clouds using a mod. They never portray a vaper as someone who took up vaping to kick a smoking habit. So when the ANTZ bring up vaping, the image that comes to mind is the cloud chaser, not the ex-smoker.

 

[Oberon75]

To the general public, their view is heavily influenced by the media. And every time the news has a spot talking about e-cigs, they always show the 20-somethings blowing massive clouds using a mod. They never portray a vaper as someone who took up vaping to kick a smoking habit. So when the ANTZ bring up vaping, the image that comes to mind is the cloud chaser, not the ex-smoker.

There is nothing wrong with a 20 something blowing clouds and they have their fuel regardless. Interesting how some of this community shuns on what they consider too much vapor while the real issue at hand is our flavors.

As I've said. I've never heard the cloud chaser argument anyplace outside of this message board from people who have never done it. It's always about gummy bear and banana gram custard. The only thing keeping people here from throwing flavors under the bus with people who prefer higher watts is that it would now be stepping on your toes. People need to realize that the right way to vape was not finalized in 2013 and were all in this together.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[AndriaD]

You have people who are at the extremes in both sides of the argument. On the one hand you have the ANTZ who would like nothing better than to have vaping wiped from the face of the earth. On the other you have pro-vapers who take it to the extreme and think that because it is not smoking, even if it looks like it, then they should be able to do it wherever and whenever they want, with no regards to the feelings of others. You can even see it from some members of the board here. There was a thread where a business put up a sign saying "no vaping allowed" and some posted that if they were not allowed to vape, then they will not do business with that establishment. Or those who say that the vapor is just PG and VG and flavorings, and because the FDA says that they are good enough to be used in food, then no one should mind if having a dense cloud blown into their face.

The problem is we don't know what the long term effects of vaping is. While the components of ejuice may be harmless if ingested, we have no idea what the effects are in inhaling it. We simply don't have the 50+ years of long term study like we do with cigarettes. There are a lot of things that we never knew how dangerous they could be to people until decades after they were put into use (i.e. lead paint, asbestos).

For me, if they want to restrict me from vaping indoors and I have to go outside, I really don't have a problem with that. Just like with smoking, I am not going to intrude into someone's space. I've seen many instances where smokers, while standing in line outdoors for the concert or movies or whatever, will light up. When I was in that situation, if I wanted to light up, I would simply step off to the side away from other folks and light up. No need to be blowing smoke around other people if it would bother them. I'll do the same now that I'm vaping and not smoking. I'm not going to take the position that this isn't smoke so you should just accept me blowing it out at you and if you don't like it, tough. Even when I walk into a vape store, I would prefer not to walk into a store where it is so cloud filled that you can barely see further than 4 or 5 feet in front of you, even if the cloud doesn't burn my eyes or makes me cough.

If they want to restrict the sale of juice and gear to adults only, I don't have a problem with that. The industry is already self regulating to do just that. But don't be naive and think that just because you make it illegal doesn't mean that kids aren't going to get their hands on it. Kids can easily get alcohol, cigarettes and other stuff that is either restricted to adults only or outright illegal.

You know what 50+ yrs of long term study about cigarette smoke actually concluded? Nothing at all. They can't find any definitive link between smoking and any particular disease. Sure, there are *tendencies*... but they've found that COPD is actually initiated by some type of infection, and there are a HUGE number of factors for developing cancer -- the foremost of those factors being genetics, not cigarettes.

Anyone who says that "smoking causes cancer" is blowing smoke out of their posterior, because there is NO definitive evidence of that. It was a scam cooked up by ANTZ and perpetrated by the Surgeon General.

Andria

 

[DC2]

All of you must learn that only ex-smokers can vape since we're so smart and health-conscience having smoked cigs for decades before vaping. We ex-smoker vapers reserve the right to tell the non-smoker vapers how dumb they are for vaping. I mean, I've got a real habit to feed here! I smoked for 30 years! This is saving my life! I EARNED THIS! Who do these non-smoker vapers think they are?!?!

All the non-smoker vapers should be as idiotic as we were and start smoking cigs instead. Period. And then maybe after they've smoked for a number of years then we may welcome them into our vaping club... MAYBE.

We don't mind if you vape.

Just don't blow big clouds where people would get rightfully offended.
And don't be a jerk.

That last one is the one that worries me the most.

 

[Oberon75]

You know what 50+ yrs of long term study about cigarette smoke actually concluded? Nothing at all. They can't find any definitive link between smoking and any particular disease. Sure, there are *tendencies*... but they've found that COPD is actually initiated by some type of infection, and there are a HUGE number of factors for developing cancer -- the foremost of those factors being genetics, not cigarettes.

Anyone who says that "smoking causes cancer" is blowing smoke out of their posterior, because there is NO definitive evidence of that. It was a scam cooked up by ANTZ and perpetrated by the Surgeon General.

Andria

I wish I could elaborate more but interesting how the same carcinogens found in something else have been said by science to do the exact opposite of what they claim cigarette smoke does.

I come from a family of life long smokers who are either still alive or lived well into their 70's, 80's and even 90's. I've never met anybody in real life who has got cancer from smoking.

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[AndriaD]

I wish I could elaborate more but interesting how the same carcinogens found in something else have been said by science to do the exact opposite of what they claim cigarette smoke does.

I come from a family of life long smokers who are either still alive or lived well into their 70's, 80's and even 90's. I've never met anybody in real life who has got cancer from smoking.

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My father smoked Luckies since he was 12, and died of lung cancer. But nothing says that the former CAUSED the latter -- it was just one factor, among many -- and yes, many other people in his family have died of cancer -- including his grandmother, who never smoked in her life.

Cancer is just a fact of life on Earth -- aside from genetics, the other single-biggest-factor is the life-giving Sun -- without it, we would die; with it, we just die more slowly. Either way... we're gonna die.

Andria

 

[Oberon75]

We don't mind if you vape.

Just don't blow big clouds where people would get rightfully offended.
And don't be a jerk.

That last one is the one that worries me the most.

To some people here, that is not enough. Just the sight of a vapor cloud bigger then what a ProVari can produce is an abomination. This includes my basic DNA 40 nickel builds.

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[Oberon75]

My father smoked Luckies since he was 12, and died of lung cancer. But nothing says that the former CAUSED the latter -- it was just one factor, among many -- and yes, many other people in his family have died of cancer -- including his grandmother, who never smoked in her life.

Cancer is just a fact of life on Earth -- aside from genetics, the other single-biggest-factor is the life-giving Sun -- without it, we would die; with it, we just die more slowly. Either way... we're gonna die.

Andria

I do have family members who have died of cancer. Just not lung cancer. But one Interesting thing that's been said to possibly be linked to lung cancer is baked bread, fries and chips. No warning labels on those packages though.

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