Sony VTC Battery Shootout -- Which one is the best?

[Barkuti]

Well, users will always find ways to know what's really under the hood; we can thank you people like HKJ & Mooch for bringing us unbiased products reviews, that's the spirit.
LoL!

Cheers
Me approves this.

 

[showman]

I'm somewhat confused at what your recommendation is for use at 20 amps. If I understand correctly, at significantly below 20 amps the VTC6 will be better, and at anything above 20 amps, the VTC5A is superior. But for use with a mod which has a max of 20 amps (used close to the top of its range) will the VTC5A or VTC6 be preferable? It's not clear to me from reading this what the recommendation is for use right at 20 amps, or very close to this.

 

[Mooch]

I'm somewhat confused at what your recommendation is for use at 20 amps. If I understand correctly, at significantly below 20 amps the VTC6 will be better, and at anything above 20 amps, the VTC5A is superior. But for use with a mod which has a max of 20 amps (used close to the top of its range) will the VTC5A or VTC6 be preferable? It's not clear to me from reading this what the recommendation is for use right at 20 amps, or very close to this.

Since around 20A is the area where you transition from one battery being best to the other they are both about the same in the transition area. The differences, if any, are tiny.

 

[showman]

Since around 20A is the area where you transition from one battery being best to the other they are both about the same in the transition area. The differences, if any, are tiny.

Thanks for clarifying. So for use 20 amps/60 watts neither should be measurably superior. Got it.

Replacing some VTC5 batteries, so I will probably go with the VTC5A just to be safe and to leave some headroom. Appreciate all the work you do here!

 

[showman]

Not sure where to post this, so please feel free remove if this is the wrong place, but it is VTC related. Just curious if anyone has tried either of the solder tags offered by nkon on the VTC batteries:
NKON | Sony Konion US18650VTC5A 2600mAh - 35A
NKON | tags

If anyone has experience with these, I'd be interested to hear. Thanks!

 

[Mooch]

Not sure where to post this, so please feel free remove if this is the wrong place, but it is VTC related. Just curious if anyone has tried either of the solder tags offered by nkon on the VTC batteries:
NKON | Sony Konion US18650VTC5A 2600mAh - 35A
NKON | tags

If anyone has experience with these, I'd be interested to hear. Thanks!

They're ok if you're only drawing a couple of amps.

 

[showman]

They're ok if you're only drawing a couple of amps.

Ok, good to know. Not getting them then!

 

[showman]

One other question regarding Sony VTC batteries that I've never seen addressed, and I thought someone here might know the answer to. Excuse me if this turns out to be another silly question.

Here goes: is there any difference in performance between the button top and flat top versions of the Sony VTC? Whether VTC3/4/5/5a/6, does this only matter for mod fit, or are the button tops more efficient because they make a more reliable connection? That was my hunch, but I'm curious if this has been tested by any of our enterprising board scientists.

 

[Baditude]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there shouldn't be any difference in performance between button-top and flat-top batteries.

I seriously doubt that Sony has ever made button-top batteries. If there are any around, the button-tops have likely been added by a distributor or middleman.

 

[showman]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there shouldn't be any difference in performance between button-top and flat-top batteries.

I seriously doubt that Sony has ever made button-top batteries. If there are any around, the button-tops have likely been added by a distributor or middleman.

Really? Not understanding quite why that would be, but perhaps I'm missing something here.
In any event, distributors Mooch has listed as reliable vendors seem to stock button-top VTC batteries.
For example, here are vtc5a button-tops from nkon: NKON | Sony Konion US18650VTC5A 2600mAh - 35A met button top - 18650 size - Rechargeable batteries
Here are vtc4 button-tops: NKON | Sony Konion US18650VTC4 2100mAh - 30A Button top - 18650 size - Rechargeable batteries

So these are likely to have been added on by nKon, then?

 

[Baditude]

So these are likely to have been added on by nKon, then?

Added on by nKon, or whoever nKon gets their batteries from. I'm pretty confident saying that the batteries manufactured by Sony factories do not have button-tops.

 

[showman]

Added on by nKon, or whoever nKon get gets their batteries from. I'm pretty confident saying that the batteries manufactured by Sony factories do not have button-tops.

Cool, thanks for the info. It seems possible that they are adding the button tops since NKon does offer other modifications, such as the solder tags, which they do in house. Will just get flat tops, but thought I had read somewhere that button tops connect more stably and give better mod efficiency. Was wondering if that's true for the VTC series, but it sounds like any effect is neglible, and probably best to just get the sony originals unmodified if these are aftermarket.

 

[Barkuti]

Large (and lame) button tops removed from King Kong INR26650Es.
Fellows, if this is an example of how button tops are typically built and assembled, bear no doubt that is going to be a hurdle with regards to high amps/power delivery performance. The lower the internal resistance of a battery, the higher the impact.
With these considerations in mind, plus the fact that cylindrical li-ions were not designed with philistine operators in mind, you can be pretty sure absolutely no big brand li-ions come from the factory with such crap.
If you really need a button top, wrap up decently wide neodymium magnets over multiple layers (10+) of aluminium foil, or over a layer of 0.1mm copper sheet, that should be enough. Upon placing the button top on the battery, fix it carefully encircling it with a layer of hot glue. May seem picky, but you'll save a few precious milli-ohms.

Cheers

 

[showman]

Large (and lame) button tops removed from King Kong INR26650Es.
Fellows, if this is an example of how button tops are typically built and assembled, bear no doubt that is going to be a hurdle with regards to high amps/power delivery performance. The lower the internal resistance of a battery, the higher the impact.
With these considerations in mind, plus the fact that cylindrical li-ions were not designed with philistine operators in mind, you can be pretty sure absolutely no big brand li-ions come from the factory with such crap.
If you really need a button top, wrap up decently wide neodymium magnets over multiple layers (10+) of aluminium foil, or over a layer of 0.1mm copper sheet, that should be enough. Upon placing the button top on the battery, fix it carefully encircling it with a layer of hot glue. May seem picky, but you'll save a few precious milli-ohms.

Cheers

Thanks! I've never tried them, was simply curious if they were better for some reason. Now I know not to bother!

 

[h00ligan]

Just went over to RTD to see if they had the VTC5A and read:

"This is our last shipment of Sony batteries. We will not be able to get anymore once these are sold out. Sony will no longer allow these batteries to be sold."

That's vtc5 not vtc5a. That happened a long time ago and it would seem to
Me any currently sold vtc5 are old stock. Personally given performance I'd buy the 5a anyway. I own three vtc5. The fourth died within a week of buying them. Imr batteries has the 5a. And the 6. A couple months ago after the vtc5 had been taken away for a long time s magic bundle showed up everywhere. To me they found a crate of these things previously unknown. That's all
Conjecture but seems very likely.


Also all use letters are a cya as ecigs are constantly exploding from ...... misusing them or not figuring out how to lock a mod before they put t in their purse so it explodes on CCTV and makes the manufacturer vulnerable. N sites like imr batteries will continue to get them. "For battery pack assemblies" of course.

Also. How many people are irresponsible with rewrapping. It has to be one of the easiest and cheapest things to do by people find all kinds of ways to ignore tears, or cover them with unacceptable "insulators" like scotch tape. That's why hey want the thick plastic of packs. Everyone needs to have battery casing around and positive insulators. I've had to rewrap almost every battery I own many more than once just from daily wear and tear (I had an 8 cell holder I think tore a lot of them) and since he smallest rip can short. I can sort of see their point.

 

[DaveP]

Also. How many people are irresponsible with rewrapping. It has to be one of the easiest and cheapest things to do by people find all kinds of ways to ignore tears, or cover them with unacceptable "insulators" like scotch tape.

Exactly... People don't inspect the positive end wrap when they charge. We also pull batteries out of chargers without easing them away from the positive contact. That puts small cracks and tears in the wrap, which grow over time and finally expose areas that can short to chassis ground.

Lots of people aren't aware that a re-wrap can be done with a 10 cent wrap tube and a hair dryer in a couple of minutes.

 

[Ed_C]

@h00ligan I knew it wasn't the 5A, but that announcement looked to be for Sony batteries in general, not any one model and since RTD is one of the most popular battery vendors around here, I thought it was noteworthy.

And yes re-warpping is very easy, takes about 3 minutes per battery and takes very little skill.

 

[Mooch]

That's vtc5 not vtc5a. That happened a long time ago and it would seem to
Me any currently sold vtc5 are old stock. Personally given performance I'd buy the 5a anyway. I own three vtc5. The fourth died within a week of buying them. Imr batteries has the 5a. And the 6. A couple months ago after the vtc5 had been taken away for a long time s magic bundle showed up everywhere. To me they found a crate of these things previously unknown. That's all
Conjecture but seems very likely.


Also all use letters are a cya as ecigs are constantly exploding from ...... misusing them or not figuring out how to lock a mod before they put t in their purse so it explodes on CCTV and makes the manufacturer vulnerable. N sites like imr batteries will continue to get them. "For battery pack assemblies" of course.

Also. How many people are irresponsible with rewrapping. It has to be one of the easiest and cheapest things to do by people find all kinds of ways to ignore tears, or cover them with unacceptable "insulators" like scotch tape. That's why hey want the thick plastic of packs. Everyone needs to have battery casing around and positive insulators. I've had to rewrap almost every battery I own many more than once just from daily wear and tear (I had an 8 cell holder I think tore a lot of them) and since he smallest rip can short. I can sort of see their point.

If any VTC's have the "do not use outside of a battery pack" warning then they are newly manufactured stock.