Sores on my tongue

[Danny55]

Sorry for the long post.

I went to the dentist on friday 13th (yeah, friday 13th lol) who pointed out a sore patch on my tongue where the papillae has scrubbed away. I've noticed this for probably the last two years or so and it tends to get smaller or bigger. but otherwise, looks the same. nothing green or yucky looking, just the top surface scrubbed. My own observation was that it got worse if I smoked more roll ups and reduce when I smoked less. I see him every six months and he didn't point it out before. He said he wasn't overly concerned, didn't look sinister to him and said iI shouldn't lose sleep over it, but he referred me to the hospital for a check up.

Being worried I've been to see two doctors since at my local clinic to try and put my mind at rest, who both said referral to the hospital is the best thing. The last doctor I saw, she said "I can't say it definitely is cancer but I can't say it definitely isn't". She said I did the right thing coming to see her and coming off cigarettes. I'd stopped smoking on tuesday 17th and have been vaping since then with no problems not smoking so far.

The sore patch is on the left side of the surface of the tongue, and has actually got bigger since the dentist saw it, so all the left side is now scrubbed. But it's stopped now, not changing anymore. And I think it might be starting to recover again, at least, it doesn't feel like burnt tongue anymore and not looking quite as red as it was.

I said to the doctor that I'd looked up images on google and my condition looks exactly like geographic tongue. A benign condition that resembles map like/archipelago areas of the tongue. She got google up and agreed it looked just like my tongue. She said it could be but she's concerned it's only on the left since geographic tongue migrates from area to area. I told her I used to let my rollups hang out the left side of my mouth, and I account for that burning away the top layer of my tongue perhaps.

Since vaping, I've been vaping only on the right side of my mouth only. Now I've noticed a couple of similar patches have developed on the right side edge of my tongue and a slight fissure in the centre, again, symptoms of geographic tongue. In both cases of left and right sores, it feels like when you've eaten something hot and burned your tongue. Can vaping cause tongue sores from heat or nicotine or nicotine droplets? When vaping, my tongue always feel very dry and pronounces any feeling of soreness.
Not soreness that is painful or uncomfortable, but nevertheless, accentuated.

I've no idea what's going on, whether this is superficial from the heat of smoking or vaping, or geographic tongue, or something more serious.

Suffice to say, I'm worried as ****, and am waiting to hear about an appointment. She said I should definitely hear something by tuesday from the hospital, and on her computer screen I saw the heading of the referral form is head and neck cancer department, and I'm ticked against oral cavity to be checked. She said they'll very likely give me a tongue biopsy. I'm worried about that, though she said the procedure is nothing to worry about. Really, an injection in the mouth and a scalpel to remove a bit of tongue and then maybe stitches? Christ, I hope not. I hope if anything it's only a tongue scrape for sticking under the microscope.

The doctors aren't so much worried I could have cancer, but they want me be checked to see if I might have pre cancerous cells, cells that could potentially turn into cancer.

 

[justagirl]

My daughter is diabetic and sometimes gets geographic tongue from.... of all things...whitening toothpaste.

Anyway, I am sure you will be fine but, I know its scary.

JAG

 

[Danny55]

My daughter is diabetic and sometimes gets geographic tongue from.... of all things...whitening toothpaste.

Anyway, I am sure you will be fine but, I know its scary.

JAG

Yeah, I read that some toothpastes have sodium sulphate or something like that which can irritate the tongue. Thanks for your reply JAG, it did help reassure me a bit.

Well, I decided to go my local hospital's A&E department this afternoon, (Accident & Emergency run by the UK's national heath service and it's free) as the sore on my tongue had developed into a sort of curvy line of what looks like a white frothy layer. Waited for 2 and a half hours to be seen but it was worth it. The nurse I saw wasn't knowledgeable about what she saw on my tongue but got me to see the doctor there. The doctor finally put my very worried mind at rest. It's not geographic tongue I have. He said he believes it's a fungal infection. Oral thrush due to things like being run down, smoking or any number of other things. So he said go and get a tube of 'Daktarin' anti fungal cream from the chemist/drug store and rub it into my tongue 3 times a day. So I'm relieved! He was surprised the other doctors I'd seen at my clinic last week hadn't suggested any remedies to put on my tongue. I asked him if I should still go to the referral appointment when it comes through and he said yes but that he's 99% sure my tongue is due to this fungal infection and that the 1% chance of anything else is very unlikely. He said the reason I had been referred to the cancer clinic was just so that the appointment would come through quicker, like within 2 weeks, otherwise it can take up to 2 or 3 months.

I didn't vape at all yesterday to try and let my tongue recover as I could tell vaping was definitely irritating my tongue more. Didn't think I'd sleep as I really wanted my nicotine fix but after watching a movie, finally fell asleep at about 4am. I asked him if it's ok to vape while using the cream and he said not until it's cleared the thrush which should be gone in 48 hours, as he said vaping will make it worse. So I'm vaping right now and then will start with the cream. Hopefully my tongue will get back to normal by saturday.

 

[Tcar]

I didn't vape at all yesterday to try and let my tongue recover as I could tell vaping was definitely irritating my tongue more. Didn't think I'd sleep as I really wanted my nicotine fix but after watching a movie, finally fell asleep at about 4am. I asked him if it's ok to vape while using the cream and he said not until it's cleared the thrush which should be gone in 48 hours, as he said vaping will make it worse. So I'm vaping right now and then will start with the cream. Hopefully my tongue will get back to normal by saturday.

Since, smoking and dry mouth both are factors in growing fungus on your tongue, not vaping would make sense. Try a couple sugar free candies once in a while to work up saliva especially the ones that have sugar alcohols in them ie sorbitol etc. Bacteria starve when you do that because they think it's sugar but can't metabolize it.

I had a buddy when I was in the army that, shall we say had relations of an oral nature with a female of dubious and monetarily negotiable virtue. . . and got a some sort of STD/bacterial infection in his tongue due to a piercing. Was really horrible to look at.

 

[Danny55]

Since, smoking and dry mouth both are factors in growing fungus on your tongue, not vaping would make sense. Try a couple sugar free candies once in a while to work up saliva especially the ones that have sugar alcohols in them ie sorbitol etc. Bacteria starve when you do that because they think it's sugar but can't metabolize it.

I had a buddy when I was in the army that, shall we say had relations of an oral nature with a female of dubious and monetarily negotiable virtue. . . and got a some sort of STD/bacterial infection in his tongue due to a piercing. Was really horrible to look at.

Hah, 'a female of dubious and monetarily negotiable virtue.'

Interesting what you say about sugar free, I didn't know that. This Daktarin is sugar free gel. I guess from what you've described, that's the reason they make it sugar free.
http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/product_2594_daktarin-oral-gel-15g.html

They say hold it in place as long as possible before swallowing. As soon as I put this gel in my mouth, which just tastes of orange, my mouth waters up from the gel liquidising plus my saliva, and it's pretty hard not swallowing! But I managed to not swallow just now for about 2 minutes or so. I have been vaping a bit between doses which I really have to stop now till it's cleared up, it's just prolonging it otherwise.

 

[MorpheusPA]

I'm glad to hear it's probably nothing but a fungus among us!

I managed a massive sore under my tongue (a typical canker sore) which required some doctor intervention in the form of a numbing mouthwash. While unpleasant, he said it was a not-unheard of side effect of quitting smoking and not to worry unless it lasted more than two weeks. It didn't, which was good.

So I can certainly sympathize. I had no idea what that massively painful and very large sore was, but it sure looked ugly.

 

[Thunderball]

I hope you get it under control.

If I may interject something sorta/kinda related that has been happening with me thats clearing up and what I did for it.

Ive had a white place on my lower lip that ....to explain it best, looks and felt like what you would get if you gpot a bad sunburn on your lip and it turned white with dead skin. Not to be gross sounding, but I could actually peel it off with my teeth and would bled for a few mins..just a bit.

Then I got the kayfun and using the original ss straight tip, i noticed I was getting some nicotine/juice in my mouth every once and a while....more than usual.......which after a few short weeks caused all of my lips to get VERY sensative.....like someone had taken a coulple or three layers of skin off my lips. It was sooo sensative.....really bad and hurt and I got pretty damn worried. In my mind I was thinking.." I wonder if this tank and tip was made from Chernoble and is radioactive or something?"... funny, but I was really freaking out. I was even putting neosporin on my lips at night...which Ive never done.

Now, I Diy so Ive been testing going with more PG...then More VG.....and trying to not accidentally take in extra nic from that occasional gurgle hit.......you all know what I mean.

Well. I finally fixed my problem. So simple too.

I started using the plastic cannon shaped tips. I never thought about it before, but these tips keep ANY ACCIDENTAL leakage of pure juice from going in my mouth or from ever hitting my lips.

Its taken a week, but I am finaaly healed.

It may not be your problem, but it has fixed a long ongoing problem for me.

 

[Tcar]

Hah, 'a female of dubious and monetarily negotiable virtue.'

Interesting what you say about sugar free, I didn't know that. This Daktarin is sugar free gel. I guess from what you've described, that's the reason they make it sugar free.

I had to think about how to phrase that first bit.

As for the second, yeast eats sugar. I know bacteria can't eat most sugar alcohols (PG and VG are sugar alcohols) but I wonder about some yeasts. I have no clue. I do homebrew beer. So I am familiar with normal yeast and wild yeasts (not brewers yeast which is Saccharomyces Cerevisiae , it eats regular sugars) are weird. Lots of different species. Some of them ferment the stuff that brewers yeast won't touch. The wild yeasts and lactic acid bacteria that ferment lambic are just frigging bizzare. Never understood the attraction to drinking something that smells like a horse and is supposed to smell that way. I think I remember from somewhere that there are some yeasts on your skin that eat you skin oils. . .

I work in Veteran's healthcare and some of the stuff these guys (young and old) get colonized by when they receive massive doses of antibiotics (which geeks up the normal microflora that lives in/on humans) or when they get immune suppressed (sick) can be pretty wretched and horrifying. Totally glad I am not a germophobe.

Pretty much any time your body gets out of whack and your internal chemistry changes quickly, or you take a strong dose of antibiotics it can screw with he critter balance in your body. I think I read somewhere there are ten bacterial cells in/on your body for every one you possess.

On a side note, I seem to remember that PG has some antimicrobial properties, so when you get back in order, just think of all the good you are doing for your body by vaping. . .

 

[Danny55]

Hey guys, sorry for the late reply and happy new year.


Morpheus, sorry to hear about your canker sore, glad it cleared up for you!

Tcar, I bought some vanilla organic yoghurt yesterday which contains live bacteria including Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium and one other beginning with S. I'm eating a few spoonfuls of that each day in the hope it may help.
I haven't seen any improvement on my tongue yet, but it seems to have at least stopped getting worse. It's very patchy and red at the moment, not pleasant to look at, lol. The yoghurt might be helping or it might be that the Daktarin is starting to finally work since I began treatment on boxing day.

I have been vaping a bit (I know, I know, I shouldn't, but I get restless without my nic fix) but today, I've noticed my tongue isn't as sore as it was. Interestingly, I gave up on my Hangsen juices and returned to my Dekang. The Dekang are all PG and the Hangsens are a mix of PG and VG. It's a long shot, but maybe PG is better for me. But also, I've been vaping 24mg for a few days with both the the Dekang and Hangsen, and now, I've been vaping a banana 18mg Dekang. So it might be that the 24mg was irritating my tongue. So many if's and maybe's! But as you mentioned, maybe the antimicrobial properties of the PG are actually helping. I have a lot of experimenting to do!

Thunderball, I was very interested to read what you said about plastic cannon tips. Sometimes my evod leaks juice from the tip and feels hot on my tongue, though it's not the cause of my main ailment. I'm just about to order a whole bunch of things, like tank with removable dripper, rebuildable dripper, Vamo, drip tips mostly SS, kanthal wire and wick.
Which plastic cannon tip did you buy or will any plastic cannon tip work? Would the evod tip not be classed as cannon shaped?


One more thing, just as a matter of interest. I've been concerned whether I actually have oral thrush or something else since I haven't seen results yet after 6 days. I tried out this saliva test today and it seems I prove positive for candida. http://www.stopyeast.com/saliva.html

It's creepy looking at the glass of water, but sure enough, loads of stringy legs draped down in my glass of water. I didn't actually perform the test as I was meant to before putting anything in my mouth, I'd forgotten to do that. It was after some cereal with milk and a cup of tea. I tested it again a couple of hours later having not eaten or drunk anything, and the same thing happened. I'll test it in the morning, but so far, that has given me confidence that it's only thrush and nothing more sinister.

 

[bruiser]

If you've been on any antibiotics, they can cause thrush (candida).

 

[Danny55]

Hey, so I had a biopsy yesterday. It's not oral thrush because the gel didn't clear it up. Went for an appointment at the maxillofacial clinic last week at the hospital and the doctor scheduled a biopsy. I was anxious as hell waiting to get it over and done with. In the end, it was fine. Injection was not a problem, like a dentist injection, only in the tongue, but nothing major painwise. Wrapped my tongue in some material, took what they needed and stitched me up. Took less that 10 minutes, couldn't believe how quick and easy it was. Was a female surgeon, and when I asked if she thinks it's anything malignant she said it's nowhere near anything serious like that. She thinks it's geographic tongue, benign. I said to her "but that's meant to migrate all over the tongue and it's only on the left side of mine", she said not necessarily, so that put my mind at rest. 6 weeks to wait for results though. So after the anaesthetic wore off as I was walking out of the hospital, so began the pain. By the time I got home it was hurting like ****!, unbearable.

I rang the hospital to tell them and ask for better painkillers as the surgeon only mentioned paracetamol. A nurse I spoke to said the tongue will be more painful than other parts but it will subside in 4 to 5 hours. It definitely did, along with the help of paracetamols. But I also bought some ibuprofen with codeine and that's a much better painkiller. Today is still very painful. The swelling/bruising I had yesterday which made eating and swallowing difficult, has pretty much gone and right now, it's more of a fairly severe stinging/soreness on the wound. Eating is still a bit tricky, anything that touches the tongue is uncomfortable. So I'm eating food which is soft, like soups, rice, that sort of thing. I so want some nicotine to relax me, but it says don't smoke for 48 hours after the operation. I haven't had any since tuesday and probably won't vape for a week or two now. There are soluble stitches in my tongue. I've been advised to rinse with warm salt water every 3 hours for a week. Can't wait till this time next week, hopefully this post-op pain will have gone!