Spanish e-cig user gets pneumonia
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As Dr. Farsalinos said, glycerine itself cannot cause lipoid pneumonia but oil based flavorings can. There is currently no way for a consumer to know what vendors are putting in their e-liquids nor is there any recourse for a negligent vendor. Consumers have zero protection right now. There is no law that says proper labeling must be done, nor are there any standards for ingredients.
Sadly, this will lead to government regulation eventually and probably increased prices. But if that's what it takes to increase the safety of liquids, then so be it. Obviously the vendors are not regulating themselves. They are not going to spend the money to test their own products. Why should they?
Sadly, this will lead to government regulation eventually and probably increased prices. But if that's what it takes to increase the safety of liquids, then so be it. Obviously the vendors are not regulating themselves. They are not going to spend the money to test their own products. Why should they?
Both yes and no.
Those who sell more "premium" juices tend to declare their ingredientlists.
If you buy super cheap hangsen from FT for example, yeah we've no idea what it actually contains.
And there's no requirement for testing the juices. But many companies do that to ensure the customers safety & they want customer and a great way to get those is to get what a customer wants. I guess it's up to us realy. Buy from the more trusted sources and be somewhat safe or go the cheap route and we've no clue what it is.
As a healthcare professional, I find the fact that he was admitted to the hospital for another illness BEFORE contracting pneumonia to be possibly telling. Pneumonia is a common nosocomial infection in a hospital setting, so it seems quite possible that this is just another case of hospital acquired pneumonia. That, and the fact that this "news" comes from a source that wishes to remain anonymous scream GARBAGE just as much as the poor journalism.
Also, A quick browse through the related articles on the site reveals more poorly researched topics with an anti-vaping slant.
Also, A quick browse through the related articles on the site reveals more poorly researched topics with an anti-vaping slant.
The unknown factor of e liquid can be bypassed. DIY e liquid. It's cheaper and easy to do, and you know what's in it.
Yeah. I have never done DIY, but I know you can buy premixed VG/PG with nicotine included. All you need to do is add the flavor. I may go this route.
let me play a little as the Devil's advocate:
"glycerine cannot cause lipoid pneumonia"... and what about Propelyne Glicol?
" but oil based flavorings can", "Those who sell more "premium" juices tend to declare their ingredientlists.".... and I would ask if that really matter? to know what ingredients are used? are there studies reflecting which flavoings cause harm and which arent?
"glycerine cannot cause lipoid pneumonia"... and what about Propelyne Glicol?
" but oil based flavorings can", "Those who sell more "premium" juices tend to declare their ingredientlists.".... and I would ask if that really matter? to know what ingredients are used? are there studies reflecting which flavoings cause harm and which arent?
No because it is not an oil either.
No, there aren't as far as I am aware. There was a lot of talk about diacetyl a couple of years back and apparently most vendors have stopped using it. But, afaik, we don't know much about the safety of inhalation of the other flavoring chemicals. These flavorings have been deemed safe by the FDA for ingestion (i.e. eating) but not necessarily inhalation. There simply isn't much research in that area.
I am not a doctor nor do I play one on t.v. That being said, pneumonia is an infection, either viral or bacterial. Now, unless the oil contains said bacteria or virus and the organism can survive while mixed with a substance with the antibiotic properties of both propyl glycol and vegetable glycol, it cannot cause pneumonia. It may, I suppose, make one more susceptable to pneumonia however I have not read anything claiming this.
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They spend money testing their products to stay in business. Many already do. More will as time goes. Pretty much all of them would after time if left to their own devices. If a company got someone sick with their e juice, they could just about be assured they'd go out of business. It's about taking personal responsibility and only ordering from those places that provide you with a basic ingredient list. Meaning you should be able to read somewhere that they don't use those chemicals we know to possibly be harmful.
Don't dare say you think the government needs to take care of me because others can't take care of themselves. This isn't kindergarten.
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I am not a doctor either, but here is my understanding of it (based on reading sites like Mayo Clinic, Pubmed, etc.)
Pneumonia is *usually* caused by bacteria or viruses, but not always. Lipoid pneumonia is one of those exceptions. Pneumonia is loosely defined as inflammation in the lungs (specifically in the alveoli). Lipoid pneumonia is defined as inflammation of the lungs caused by the presence of oils. There doesn't have to be a virus or bacteria present. The oils themselves irritate the lungs and cause an autoimmune response which produces pneumonia like symptoms.
So, no, you don't have to have an infection to present with lipoid pneumonia. The oils themselves can cause it, and you don't necessarily have to inhale them directly. Here is part of a paper I found on Pubmed:
From everything I have read, it appears that this disease is rare enough that most general practitioners would probably miss it. One would probably have to see a pulmonologist for a proper diagnosis and even a specialist could probably be fooled if not familiar with the disease.
They could (in theory) be lying. Other companies have lied on their list of declared ingredients.
What's needed here is a third-party testing company, ordering juices and analyzing them and issuing certifications of trustworthiness. Any takers?
This would be the first case in the world of a case of lipoid pneumonia presenting, being diagnosed, and being cured wthin a couple of weeks. I don't think the therapy for lipoid pneumonia is even agreed never mind a next-day cure.
What rubbish.
- To diagnose lipoid pneumonia needs the pathology to be confirmed, which is never the case in these rumours.
- In theory it is impossible that LP can be caused by an alcohol (glycols and glycerols are alcohols), and to see it without a co-morbidity such as emphysema would be even more unlikely. For practical purposes it is impossible. LP is caused by mineral oils or substances that mimic them.
- The statement "the oils in flavoring can cause LP" is wrong on multiple counts:
-- It's never happened
-- The 'oils' in flavoring often aren't oils at all, it's just a term used in the flavoring world. Tobacco concrete for example is not something you can build roads with, it's simply a term used in flavoring that is essentially meaningless.
-- If your flavoring uses mineral oils then you're probably better off finding another supplier.
Patients with lung diseases are at significant risk of pneumonia. For example, emphysema patients often contract it. It isn't LP though (of course).
Patients can contract diseases in really bad hospitals, and these include pneumonia. If a patient gets pneumonia in such a hospital, what better way to pass the blame than to implicate an ecig. Next we'll see ecigs have caused super-staph and necrotising fasciitis.
Then, hospitals with very poor post-operative cardiac surgery survival rates can begin to blame it on ecigs. Who knows where it will end. Maybe ecigs cause global warming.
What rubbish.
- To diagnose lipoid pneumonia needs the pathology to be confirmed, which is never the case in these rumours.
- In theory it is impossible that LP can be caused by an alcohol (glycols and glycerols are alcohols), and to see it without a co-morbidity such as emphysema would be even more unlikely. For practical purposes it is impossible. LP is caused by mineral oils or substances that mimic them.
- The statement "the oils in flavoring can cause LP" is wrong on multiple counts:
-- It's never happened
-- The 'oils' in flavoring often aren't oils at all, it's just a term used in the flavoring world. Tobacco concrete for example is not something you can build roads with, it's simply a term used in flavoring that is essentially meaningless.
-- If your flavoring uses mineral oils then you're probably better off finding another supplier.
Patients with lung diseases are at significant risk of pneumonia. For example, emphysema patients often contract it. It isn't LP though (of course).
Patients can contract diseases in really bad hospitals, and these include pneumonia. If a patient gets pneumonia in such a hospital, what better way to pass the blame than to implicate an ecig. Next we'll see ecigs have caused super-staph and necrotising fasciitis.
Then, hospitals with very poor post-operative cardiac surgery survival rates can begin to blame it on ecigs. Who knows where it will end. Maybe ecigs cause global warming.
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