My order didn't come yesterday, though I got a notice that it was in the post office for delivery yesterday. (RATS) So, I'm back to the 100% VG. My lungs seem to do okay with 80/20, which is what my new order will be.
BBC News- Possible Death from E-Cig Use?
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The deceased man's age has been variously quoted as 57, 67 and 71. He was reported as suffering from emphysema and atherosclerosis. It was reported that he had suffered from a type of lipoid pneumonia. It is assumed due to the inquest result that a full range of tests were not performed at autopsy to determine the precise cause of death and the precise agent responsible. The e-cigarette liquid involved was probably not tested. A doctor (we assume) called for an inquest, but the outcome could never have been of any possible use or relevance because none of the information required to produce a meaningful result appears to have been available to the coroner, neither was any form of correct legal or logical argument presented (we assume) in order to reach a true conclusion (see numbered items following). A doctor is involved who has obviously promoted his own personal agenda in some aspects of the case. A doctor is involved who is well-known to hold strong views against harm reduction solutions being available to consumers.
We cannot confirm any of these matters, which are all hearsay, one reason being that the inquest transcript is not available. Either no record of the proceedings was taken or it has been lost.
As you can see, there are numerous unusual features to this incident.
We will be reporting the doctor's conduct to the General Medical Council during the coming week, and asking for a full investigation. The only concrete statements that can be made until that investigation is completed are:
1. Emphysema sufferers are well-known to have a higher risk of contracting pneumonia. If a patient with emphysema dies of pneumonia, the event is not considered remarkable. Emphysema patients need to avoid any/all activities that might involve an increased risk of pneumonia.
2. The doctor responsible for the care of an emphysema patient must instruct them clearly and unambiguously that inhalation of any substance whatsoever must cease. If the doctor does not do this, then he is negligent. If the patient subsequently dies, then a decision must be reached as to whether the doctor was negligent or the patient in effect committed suicide due to an addiction that could not be controlled. There are no other possible results.
3. If a person has serious lung disease, and/or advanced illness caused by smoking, then any further inhalation of any substances whatsoever, unless prescribed by a doctor, is tantamount to suicide. The exact substance inhaled or device used is irrelevant since it is no different to a rope used by a person to hang themselves with - the rope is not at risk of being blamed.
4. The death of an addict may well be an unfortunate event, but it cannot be blamed on third parties unless gross negligence is shown. Further, it cannot be blamed on the use of devices that when used correctly by normal persons who are not seriously ill will have no harmful effects. If this were the case we would need to ban many things that are useful and safe when used correctly but can easily be abused.
We cannot confirm any of these matters, which are all hearsay, one reason being that the inquest transcript is not available. Either no record of the proceedings was taken or it has been lost.
As you can see, there are numerous unusual features to this incident.
We will be reporting the doctor's conduct to the General Medical Council during the coming week, and asking for a full investigation. The only concrete statements that can be made until that investigation is completed are:
1. Emphysema sufferers are well-known to have a higher risk of contracting pneumonia. If a patient with emphysema dies of pneumonia, the event is not considered remarkable. Emphysema patients need to avoid any/all activities that might involve an increased risk of pneumonia.
2. The doctor responsible for the care of an emphysema patient must instruct them clearly and unambiguously that inhalation of any substance whatsoever must cease. If the doctor does not do this, then he is negligent. If the patient subsequently dies, then a decision must be reached as to whether the doctor was negligent or the patient in effect committed suicide due to an addiction that could not be controlled. There are no other possible results.
3. If a person has serious lung disease, and/or advanced illness caused by smoking, then any further inhalation of any substances whatsoever, unless prescribed by a doctor, is tantamount to suicide. The exact substance inhaled or device used is irrelevant since it is no different to a rope used by a person to hang themselves with - the rope is not at risk of being blamed.
4. The death of an addict may well be an unfortunate event, but it cannot be blamed on third parties unless gross negligence is shown. Further, it cannot be blamed on the use of devices that when used correctly by normal persons who are not seriously ill will have no harmful effects. If this were the case we would need to ban many things that are useful and safe when used correctly but can easily be abused.
Roly, you bring up some very good points. I agree it can be blamed on ecigs considering he already had known health issues.
Yet you smoked for 10 years knowing all of the risks involved, and didn't choose not to 'play that game'? I'm not making light of your problems and if it is right for you personally, and anyone else prone to lung complaints, to quit vaping then you/they absolutely should quit (emphasis). But let's please put it into perspective in the whole for 99.9% of vapers.
400,000 people die annually in the US alone due to the absolutely proven effects of smoking. ONE person dies of smoking related illness, which is then attributed to vaping by a doctor with an anti-smoking/vaping agenda, and suddenly vaping is an extremely dangerous activity?
Did I go to bed and wake up in the twilight zone? It is not irresponsible to state as a given that vaping in a responsible manner is absolutely and totally safer than smoking.
I concur that Vaping is safer than smoking in the scope that we are aware. Neither one year of smoking or vaping are going to kill someone, but you have to take into consideration that we don't know 10 year vapers, 5 year vapers like we do smokers.
It does seem completely plausible to me that with how the vapor behaves, lipoid pneumonia has the potential of developing as the lungs fail to keep up with clearing fluids from the lungs. Was vaping the primary cause of this death? No, probably not, but to suggest that inhaling PG or VG into already weakened lungs was not a contributing factor is absurdity.
No, you are right. We have no long term studies on vaping. I am basing my conclusion solely on what my body is telling me.
But even if I were to die at the same time from vaping as I would have from smoking, i'd consider that spending my later life feeling good a vast improvement over a potential 15 - 20 years of coughing, choking, wheezing, stinking of smoke and generally stunted in my health.
But even if I were to die at the same time from vaping as I would have from smoking, i'd consider that spending my later life feeling good a vast improvement over a potential 15 - 20 years of coughing, choking, wheezing, stinking of smoke and generally stunted in my health.
My sister is a nurse and we discuss my ecigs all of the time. She loves them and always tries to guess the flavor of the day when we go out! I do feel that they are safer than analogs; I do not know if they are totally safe. Only time will tell. My doctor approves of my ecig usage. At this point, I am not that concerned. I am so thrilled to be off regular tobacco. My house is so much cleaner (I even had the walls painted bright white after I quit!), my hair is so much fresher and I don't wake up choking. Maybe a year or so from now, some damning study will pop up and I'll reconsider my ecigarette usage. But right now, I feel that vaping is much better for me than smoking cigarettes.
Sometimes people who quit a long time ago do die because they once smoked. Other former smokers live long and happy lives. My grandfather quit smoking at nearly 75 years of age and died at 92 years old. He lived a very long life despite heavily smoking (and drinking) for over 60 years. He died of pneumonia; he never got cancer or heart disease from all of those cigarettes.
I remember feeling very sad upon learning about Allen Carr's death from lung cancer. Allen Carr was an author from the UK who wrote a bestselling book that helped many people quit smoking. He had quit 23 years earlier and he ended up dying of lung cancer anyway.
Allen Carr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I don't understand how the doctor can really link this man's death to the use of an ecig when he obviously had many health problems from years of smoking. There are just too many variables involved here.
I remember feeling very sad upon learning about Allen Carr's death from lung cancer. Allen Carr was an author from the UK who wrote a bestselling book that helped many people quit smoking. He had quit 23 years earlier and he ended up dying of lung cancer anyway.
Allen Carr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I don't understand how the doctor can really link this man's death to the use of an ecig when he obviously had many health problems from years of smoking. There are just too many variables involved here.
Carr was a 100 a day smoker, so i'd say that his 23 years smoke free probably bought him an extra 15 years being that he lived to 71. You can't expect to chain smoke for 33yrs and dodge a smoking related death by giving up. It's most unlikely.
Yeah, I listened to Carr's Cds several years ago to try and quit smoking. It didn't work for me but it did for others. It's going to be hard to pinpoint vaping as the cause of any of our deaths since most of us have a history of smoking anyways. Plus plenty of people die from lung cancer who were never smoked a day in their lives.
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