Spilled liquid? and now burning hands
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Um the skin absorbs nicotine quite differently than how it doe vaping it.
So no it doesn't surprise me that much that you had ill effects, depending on the type of spill and how much was absorbed prior to washing it off. Some Nic salts can be rapidly absorbed, so you may have gotten mild toxicity even at that level of nicotine. IDK.
I use 100 mg/ml nicotine salts and I actually DON'T wear gloves, because I'll notice a spill easier WITHOUT gloves and I'll notice right away, without inadvertently spreading nicotine everywhere. However I mix on my dining room and I also pay VERY close attention to what is going on. I do all my nic together (right after my flavors) and then wash up and put everything nic related away.
It was not pure nicotine. You'd probably be dead. I think you are just having a skin absorption response. They can be unfun, but usually not deadly, unless you spill a POOL of nicotine and just sit in it for a couple hours. Etc.
I'm not making light of your situation, actually, I think you need to exercise more care and good judgement, and while the solution-- for me-- may be no gloves, well, maybe the solution for you is gloves, or even a mask. Wear long sleeve but LOOSE clothes that you can remove and jump in the shower FAST in case of a catastrophic spill.
Anna
So no it doesn't surprise me that much that you had ill effects, depending on the type of spill and how much was absorbed prior to washing it off. Some Nic salts can be rapidly absorbed, so you may have gotten mild toxicity even at that level of nicotine. IDK.
I use 100 mg/ml nicotine salts and I actually DON'T wear gloves, because I'll notice a spill easier WITHOUT gloves and I'll notice right away, without inadvertently spreading nicotine everywhere. However I mix on my dining room and I also pay VERY close attention to what is going on. I do all my nic together (right after my flavors) and then wash up and put everything nic related away.
It was not pure nicotine. You'd probably be dead. I think you are just having a skin absorption response. They can be unfun, but usually not deadly, unless you spill a POOL of nicotine and just sit in it for a couple hours. Etc.
I'm not making light of your situation, actually, I think you need to exercise more care and good judgement, and while the solution-- for me-- may be no gloves, well, maybe the solution for you is gloves, or even a mask. Wear long sleeve but LOOSE clothes that you can remove and jump in the shower FAST in case of a catastrophic spill.
Anna
They required the infusion nurses to wear HEAVY gloves and gown to plug me in for a while. They looked like it was more likely to cause an accident than prevent one.
Now it's an option. A few young enough for pregnancy worries wear the gown, none wear the gloves.
It's bad enough they pump stuff with biohazard warnings into me, people getting into hazmat suits to screw the IV in really made me feel good about it.
Yep, that belongs in the "Harry Potter and the Magic Mod" forum.
Back on topic, I wear a glove on my right hand when mixing and I have on my prescription eyeglasses. If I get a smear of 100mg/ml nic on my skin I'm next to the kitchen sink, so I can wash it off.
Maybe the OP received 480mg/ml nic instead of 48mg/ml. Nic test kits are under $10 and it might be worth checking to make sure. If it's high nic it can be cut down with PG/VG to 100mg/ml. It could be a good deal. You just need to know what you are dealing with when you handle it.
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Hmm- there are some rules about discussing nic concentrations over 100 mg here (though I hope they would be relaxed a little in discussing safety in cases like yours.) Still, I want to tread lightly around this, but... I don't think that should worry you if you're OK now- the harmful effects would be pretty acute. I would treat that bottle with an excess of caution though.
Yep- I can be a bit cavalier about handling 100mg in some ways (though I am quite careful in others,) so I've gotten small amounts on my hands many times. I have never felt any sensation from getting 100mg on my hands aside from the obvious sensation of getting the medium on my hands. I have even (and I strongly recommend that you do _not_ do this) tasted a drop of 100 mg- that had a strong peppery taste, but no burning sensation other than that. I have never used higher concentrations.
I tend to think that people err in both directions here. Nicotine is a poison, and should definitely be treated with respect. But 100mg is not plutonium (back in the day, on bad devices, I vaped up to 32 mg, and with salts people are vaping twice that even now.) A drop of 100mg on your hand shouldn't send you running to the emergency room, or even send you here to post freaked out messages. Perhaps it should send you to the sink...
So when I say I can be a bit cavalier, I don't think I do anything that's actually dangerous to me. I portion my nic into smaller vessels for normal use, and I mix standing up. A drop of 100mg on my hand is nothing I fret over, but I'd rather not dump a liter of it in my lap.
OTOH, I think you put your finger on what I think the real dangers of consumer-strength nic are, and those are dangers to children and pets. I would have to do something uncharacteristically stupid to hurt myself with 100mg (and I have been known to do some pretty stupid things, though my stupidity is generally of a particular sort, so uncharacteristically stupid covers some ground) but I have cats and I am quite careful when it comes to them- they weigh about 5% of what I weigh, and have very different biochemistry. I do not have children, but if I had small children... well, I think I would still mix but I would go to pretty great lengths to keep them out of my nic. And my juice for that matter.
I can't think of any obviously correct answer here. I would be concerned if this happened to me (though don't misunderstand me- I don't mean concerned about having been already harmed by this one incident, assuming you feel fine now. That seems unlikely.) I would treat the bottle with a great deal of caution (but hang on to it.) I would contact the vendor to see if they had any clue as to whether they might have mis-formulated it in some way (but I would not necessarily trust them to be honest.)
I don't think very many people here have much experience with highly concentrated nic so- I wouldn't entirely rule that out as a possibility. Even people who do have experience with it would have taken precautions that meant they didn't get it on their skin, or at least I would hope that would be the case.
An allergic reaction is another possibility, as @Opinionated noted, and allergies are weird and hard to reason about. I suffered from life-threatening allergies what seemed like just about everything as a small child (eggs, milk, wheat, sugar, dust, animal dander, and other things- birthday parties were not much fun) but then I just suddenly stopped being allergic to anything around the time I turned six. No one knows why.
Do you have any other allergies that you know of? Allergies often come in packs.
The thing that's weird about your story is the very small amount of material you would have gotten on your hands from a thin film on a bottle, and the immediate onset of symptoms. I have some thoughts about high nic concentrations in this context, but I think I might be breaking rules if I explained them fully. That might be consistent with an allergic reaction as well though- allergies can be very weird.
It's a bit odd that you were fine with the JUUL, but the first DIY vendor you bought from caused this reaction. Of course their salts are not going to be the same as JUUL's, but... it's a bit coincidental, enough so that it makes me suspicious. Unfortunately, we can't really in good conscience ask you to try out a number of vendors formulations to see if they harm you (I mean, it would be in the name of Science, but...)
In fact, I would be a bit careful about vaping _anything_ I hadn't vaped before, if I were you, until I had a better idea of what happened. If it was an allergic reaction- well, given the tiny amount of material involved I would be careful. Allergies are weird, and in some cases dangerous in ways you might not expect. You might even want to consult a doctor about it, though I kind of doubt they will have anything very useful to say.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful, but... your story is pretty odd, and I'd try to (safely) get to the bottom of it if I were you. And I'd def take it pretty seriously. Keep that bottle though.
You’d be surprised how many times, on this forum, it’s been down played. I’ve even seen someone be indirectly called out as if acting paranoid by taking extreme caution. I believe you're right but there are a lot of people who simply do no know the dangers. I’ve seen them first hand. Not hear say, saw with my own eyes.
I understand you’re point in this statement, though I don’t like it. Those of us who know, we know. Unfortunately, the one’s who don’t know are the one’s who take these statements to heart. Maybe it’s taking on too much responsibility for others but thats just me and who I am. That doesn’t mean you also need to do so. I just felt compelled to also add my two cents. I know you have strong opinions and thats great. I just happen to also concerning this topic. Not only children and pets are vulnerable. Of course variables play a major role. Someone who regularly vapes extremely high nic levels might be perfectly fine pouring it on themselves and then washing it off. Though someone who is used to zero nic, no matter child or adult, it’d be a different story. Granted, it does soak into our skin at a slow rate, but what if there are open wombs etc? Here’s the thing I keep remembering... This guy who I know who got sick, he didn’t fully realise the dangers. He had to stop using nicotine for medical procedures. So his tolerance had been down for quite some time. He wasn’t wearing gloves or sleeves when he had his accident. He sustained scratches from his cat which ran up him to get away from the dog. He immediately cleaned the nic from the floor first to save the animals. Then he ran the stray dog out of the house. Then he rinsed his arms off, splashing water on them. What he didn’t realise is he didn’t get all the nic off of him. He assumed the wetness was from him splashing water on his arms to rinse them off. He was planning on doing yard work. So he didn’t want to change his clothing first. He simply wasn’t worried. Then he was found passed out in his work shed. My point in telling about this accident is to point out many don’t know the dangers. He knew some but not to the point he should’ve known to be handling. I’m not saying I’m anymore knowledgeable than my fellow mixers, I just see a lot of neglect concerning liquid nicotine. It’s a bit late for me and I feel as though I’m rambling. I know you weren’t playing nic down or anything. I just felt the need to share my thoughts atm.
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Did someone mention a nic test kit on this thread? I can't remember if it was this one or another one (I think it was another one). You can pick one up inexpensively in a variety of places (including some DIY vendors, I believe.)
That would tell you if your nic strength is different from what is packaged. I think most test kits (I don't have one never had issues with my nic) will allow you to test more than once.
I'd say it's probably highly unlikely your nic is stronger than advertised but you never know! And better safe than sorry, sometimes. If I were in that situation though, I'd probably get a test kit myself to find out, because I want my DIY liquids to be reasonably accurate nicotine wise etc.
Best of luck,
Anna
That would tell you if your nic strength is different from what is packaged. I think most test kits (I don't have one never had issues with my nic) will allow you to test more than once.
I'd say it's probably highly unlikely your nic is stronger than advertised but you never know! And better safe than sorry, sometimes. If I were in that situation though, I'd probably get a test kit myself to find out, because I want my DIY liquids to be reasonably accurate nicotine wise etc.
Best of luck,
Anna
Ay, there's the rub. In order to know which concerns are important and which are overblown you do have to understand the dangers.
I guess my perspective is partially a result of having grown up in a time when people were perhaps less cautious and partially a result of having done some moderately dangerous work, and having had to understand and manage the risks involved.
It's very important that you be very cautious when you don't entirely understand the risks involved in something. But it's actually just as important, in my experience, that you come to understand those risks, and prioritize them. When everything seems dangerous, nothing seems particularly dangerous. We have limited mental energy to devote to caution, so it's important that we devote it to being cautious about the right things.
I'm inclined to think that people are generally pretty bad at assessing risks. I remember, about 15 years ago, we had the summer of the shark. There were like three shark attacks off the East coast of the US and able news made the most of that. Beach attendance went way down that year. This baffled me a bit, because... there are around 3,000 accidental drowning deaths per year in the US. And the ocean is more dangerous than your average pond. You should be cautious when swimming in it, but sharks are not the main danger.
Now, you could just chalk this up as harmless silliness and the news cycle at work, but... the more attention parents give to making sure their children aren't eaten by sharks the less attention they have to give to making sure that their children don't drown. The latter is more important, and excessive concerns about sharks could conceivably lead to more drowning deaths.
Just so, when you do dangerous work it is very important that you understand which bits might kill you. You can't be on high alert all the time, so if you are just generally cautious you will not be cautious enough when you might die from a lack of caution.
In other words, IMHO, an excess of caution can be as dangerous as a lack of caution. Overrating the risks of something can be as dangerous as underrating the risks of something else. It's not always safe to err on the side of caution.
Well, as reckless as I can be at times, I don't recall having recommended pouring nicotine on yourself (and if asked I would recommend not doing so.) I am careful in my own way, and while the way I mix necessarily means getting a drop or two on my hands occasionally I do not generally pour it on myself.
This is an extremely specific example, but I'll bear it mind the next time I mix in a chaotic environment after having been savaged by a bear. I lock my cats in another room when I mix (because they are little agents of chaos- I love my cats, but even on a cat-scaled scale of troublesomeness they rate pretty high.) I am fortunate enough to not have son-in-laws who invite Moose into my house while I'm mixing.
But yes, I completely agree that if you have large open wounds you should probably not pour large amounts of 100mg nic into them. I'm not sure how generally applicable this advice is though.
Well, I like mixing as much as the next guy, but I don't like it enough to include it in all my activities, so this situation rarely comes up.
No worries- I am a bit of a bull in a China shop, but I have a correspondingly thick hide.
I don’t appreciate having my words taken out of context and I’ve never been anything but nice to you and everyone on this forum. Though you certainly have the right to be that guy if you want to be! One thing I hope I never do in life is become unteachable. God bless and have fun way up there
I don't think I've been anything but nice to you. If you disagree you might explain why. I've certainly never said anything to you quite as rude as "if you want to be that guy" is. But I'm not particularly offended- it is rare that I really take offense.
Me too. I was an engineer and I've worked with some pretty dodgy substances that could take your skin right off.
When I started using 100mg nic I wore gloves and goggles and a mask. I mixed in a large plastic tub so any spills would be contained. I dropped the gloves and goggles and mask, just rely on my regular glasses now. I figured using gloves I would be more likely to knock over a bottle. I've got nic on my hands and had no ill effects at all. Mainly from nic dripping down the outside of a bottle and then picking it up, which is a similar situation to OP's experience. I still use the tub and there are ALWAYS has some nic drips on the bottom of the tub when I'm finished. You don't want drips of nic lying around on your desk or whatever. Sooner or later you will get it on your finger then rub your eyes.
Couple of comments.
I'll do stuff myself that I wouldn't recommend to others, just because I have some experience handling toxic materials and I know how to keep myself safe. If you don't have that experience then definitely take precautions. Better to take unnecessary precautions than to inadvertently take risks.
Over the years I've seen people react differently to chemicals on their skin. Whether it's allergic reactions or different skin chemistry or something else I don't know. It's entirely possible that someone else could have picked up the same bottle as OP and had no reaction at all. But something did happen there. Could have been some high % nic dripped on the outside of the bottle, or sensitivity to nic, or allergy to some other ingredient. Whatever it was OP needs to try to figure it out, or stay away from that stuff. Maybe the vendor will have some suggestions but my guess is they are more likely to want to cover their asses.
I just rebottled a bunch of 100mg. I just kept a wet/dry paper towel ready to wipe up any spills. When there were spills, stopped, capped and cleaned up. Cleaned the counter top again afterwards.
When I first started I got 100mg to cut to 50mg and was afraid of it. Then the condom snorting tide pod eating jerks started vaping it.
I can't say what happened.
When I use my nic, I lay down a puppy pad underneath a glass baking dish. I measure out my nic in to my bottles wearing disposable gloves then my nic goes into 2 zip lock baggies.
I have had no spills or incidents with this method so far and feel lucky.
When I use my nic, I lay down a puppy pad underneath a glass baking dish. I measure out my nic in to my bottles wearing disposable gloves then my nic goes into 2 zip lock baggies.
I have had no spills or incidents with this method so far and feel lucky.
Oddly enough, last night I filled up a bunch of mod at once, and it was a smidge messy. I wiped everything down but forgot to wash my hands afterwards.
I experienced mild burning on the palm of my hands. I wasn't nic sick or anything, but I did experience mild burning until I went "D'oh" and washed my hands. I use 18 mg nicsalts.
So take that for what it's worth. It was the first time it happened. I have a feeling the burning sensation was the nic entering my skin, etc.
Anna
I experienced mild burning on the palm of my hands. I wasn't nic sick or anything, but I did experience mild burning until I went "D'oh" and washed my hands. I use 18 mg nicsalts.
So take that for what it's worth. It was the first time it happened. I have a feeling the burning sensation was the nic entering my skin, etc.
Anna
I don't understand how/why some members wait to wash hands/nic off when spilled on skin, etc. IF I have anything that has a burning sensation on my skin, be it lotion, meds, or nic, I do not hesitate to get it off immediately. Call me crazy but I kinda like my skin and want to protect it as much as possible. Where is the common sense? To wait for hours like the OP before the thought ever occurred to them to wash it off is just insane to me......
sigh----
sigh----
Well for me it was a bonehead moment. But yes, the minute I felt the burning I washed my hands as if I had handwashing OCD. LOL.
Anna
Anna
One time I (intentionally, in the name of science) put a drop of 100mg on the back of my hand, and left it there for ten minutes while I completed my mixing. At the end of ten minutes, I licked it off. It gave a "warm" sensation on my tongue, and tasted "spicy" kind of like a hot sauce with no actual flavor. My hand did not itch or turn red where the nicotine solution had been applied, and no other side effects were observed. That, along with a previous experiment involving the same procedure with a weaker nicotine solution, is the extent of my experimentation with nicotine toxicity.
I don’t think yours is comparable as you didn’t intentionally do so
I know it’s absorbed into our skin at a slow rate. I guess it depends on the individual whether or not it'd cause irritation etc. I feel like we’d absorb significantly more vaping per second or minute opposed to a drop on our skin. Though, again that’d depend on how much or frequency we vape. For me it’d probably be significantly more. Though Idk because though I vape a lot, I only use 3mg.
There's something about palms (and soles of feet) where the skin is different, if you ask me. Or maybe it's just more likely that I'll overdo it with a cleanser or whatnot (I'm talking like bleach or other stuff you should really wear gloves) it's likely the palms that will get irritated. LOL. Not sure if it's just more exposure or WHAT, I'm kind of interested to look it up but not THIS LATE nor am I a dermatologist. LOL.
Anna
Anna
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