SQuape

[Rossum]

LJ's E-Smokes in Port Orange to the rescue. Got some 29 gauge Kanthal, some 2mm wick, some 3mm wick, and they threw in a couple of organic cotton balls too.

I decided to make my first coil the 'official' way, two pieces of 3mm silica, "Navy Lifeguard" style, with the leads coming out in between the two pieces of wick. My first attempt seemed to heat unevenly from one end, so I threw it out and started over. This is my second attempt:

That looks pretty decent, I think. The dna-20 says it's 1.1 ohms. So how's it vape? Honestly, I'm not that impressed. At 10 watts (which is about the minimum the DNA-20 will put into 1.1 ohms), the vape seems a bit dry. I'm obviously going to have to try some other configurations.

I will say this however: It's so easy to build, a cave man could do it! The B&M had an EH Pro KF 3.1 clone in their case that I looked at; it appears much more difficult.

 

[montara]

Love/hate the whole counterfeit game. Not to thread-jack...maybe need a new thread... but since it's here...
Pros, access to those that cant afford the real deal.
Keeps the OE manufacture honest by offering a top shelf product. Cant think of much more since I wont touch a clone.

Cons; all the obvious. I hate thieves and pretenders.

Had a employee come into my office today with a Fogger and a Kfun clown he wanted to give his GF as an attempt to rid her if analogs. Asked me how to set these up... told him NOT! Cheep built ....ee + post touching ground, center pin... "had to grind to avoid touching side")
Whipped out "the real deal" showed the difference, explained the safety factor and directed him to the trusted local B&M for a lesson. (I did offer to bring in tool box for education) BUT the GF needs the education!

When you pay for quality you only cry once.

 

[Rossum]

Agreed, and that goes double for the the Squape. Is anyone really gonna trust the Chinese to coat that aluminum deck correctly?

The EH Pro Kayfun clone I looked at today was out of curiosity; mostly to compare how easy it would be to build. The quality of that one seemed pretty good. The guy in the store took it apart for me and I re-assembled it. The only thing I found objectionable was that the innards smelled like a machine shop. That would be easy enough to fix, but contast that with the Squape, which had no odor at all. In the end, since money is not an issue for me, so if/when I want a Kayfun, I'll buy a real one. The closest I would get to buying a clone would be a Russian 91%, which is an improved copy that at least doesn't pretend to be the real thing, but the fact that it's made in China still bothers me.

In the FWIW department, my Squape build seems to have settled down and is vaping pretty decent now.

 

[RickD312]

For now I am using the squape on my big nasty 26650 mod. 2 3mm wicks and a 3 - 4 wrap of 28 ga. temco annealed kanthal a1. tried micro coils on my provari with cotton but since the coil is embedded into the deck it gets tight in there. for me a simple coil is better. if i want a hotter coil i might go to 26 ga kanthal. for me i am just liking the simple open 3-4 wrap that you show. thanks for sharing.

LJ's E-Smokes in Port Orange to the rescue. Got some 29 gauge Kanthal, some 2mm wick, some 3mm wick, and they threw in a couple of organic cotton balls too.

I decided to make my first coil the 'official' way, two pieces of 3mm silica, "Navy Lifeguard" style, with the leads coming out in between the two pieces of wick. My first attempt seemed to heat unevenly from one end, so I threw it out and started over. This is my second attempt:

That looks pretty decent, I think. The DNA-20 says it's 1.1 ohms. So how's it vape? Honestly, I'm not that impressed. At 10 watts (which is about the minimum the DNA-20 will put into 1.1 ohms), the vape seems a bit dry. I'm obviously going to have to try some other configurations.

I will say this however: It's so easy to build, a cave man could do it! The B&M had an EH Pro KF 3.1 clone in their case that I looked at; it appears much more difficult.

 

[Mark Howard]

Been liking the SQuape more than my Kayfun lite+ and even drippers recently. Use a 28g microcoil with cotton at 1.2 ohms and it's just solid as a rock. Tasty, dependable, easy build...did I mention tasty?

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[iowajosh]

Mine looks the same. I had mine leak one day until I figured out the deck pushes against the top cone and that is what holds the wick in. I just checked, mine looks very similar. I didn't have much luck with the giant ekowool wick or a smaller one either. Kind of worked with 2x1.5mm braided. Worked ok with a vertical micro in there. I think with too big of a coil too low, it tends to flood.

 

[Mark Howard]

I always wrap mine on a 1/16" bit. After wrapping on posts I pull it up about 1/2 the diameter of the coil; haven't had dry hit or flood yet.


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[edrompa]

I did my first build on my squape with 30 awg kanthal at about 2.1 ohms(quite a bit higher then I was going for) a cotton ball and all I got was major flooding. I then tried cotton yarn and no extreme flooding but it did gurgle. The other problem I was having was all I could taste with the yarn was burning cotton. I pulled that coil out and built a 1.5 ohm 28 awg kanthal with cotton ball again and this one doesn't seem to be leaking or any gurgles either. I did fluff the cotton up some after watching some YouTube videos. The problem I am having now though is it is extremely loud when vaping. It almost sounds like a gurgle but sounds different then any gurgle I have ever had on any tank. I am getting no leaking at all though which makes me think it is not a gurgle. Is this RTA just loud when vaping? Any ideas or suggestions would be great.


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[Mark Howard]

Hmmm, no idea. Mines quieter than my kfl.


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[Rossum]

For now I am using the squape on my big nasty 26650 mod. 2 3mm wicks and a 3 - 4 wrap of 28 ga. temco annealed kanthal a1. tried micro coils on my provari with cotton but since the coil is embedded into the deck it gets tight in there. for me a simple coil is better. if i want a hotter coil i might go to 26 ga kanthal. for me i am just liking the simple open 3-4 wrap that you show. thanks for sharing.

Yeah, I think that would be a good approach for running on a mech, but I don't own any mechs; I'm running my Squape on a DNA 20. Anyway, the first coil I made above got better and better as I continued to vape it. I spent all day yesterday and most of the day today out at the range and took a filled/primed carto tank as a backup, but never needed it. In fact, I hit it pretty heavily both days, and the 5ml capacity (as well as the 2900 mAh Panasonic powering the DNA) kept up with my needs handily, despite there being several smokers in our group (the presence of smokers has been known to cause chain-vaping) and me finding an unopened pack of analogs in my range bag.. However, I was mildly frustrated with one thing; not being able to reduce power much below 10 watts to see what effect it might have. In order to address this, I would need a coil with a bit more resistance. The obvious way would be to make one with thinner (higher-gauge) wire, but I don't have any of that yet.

When I got home I spotted something that Ralph at LJ's had given me from his personal stash, a small (maybe 6") long piece of Ekowool. This stuff may have started out round and hollow, but it lays flat. My calibrated Mk.1 eyeball tells me that it's roughly 2.5-3 mm thick by 6 mm wide. So I got this crazy I idea: What if I wrap a coil that shape and stand it up edgewise in the Squape's trench? This would give me a bit more wire length per turn than a round coil would, and it would also impede the airflow less. For anyone who can't visualize this, a picture is worth 1000 words. Here's the coil next to my base with the old coil still in it:

This is what it looks like installed (from the side)

... and from the top:

Yeah, OK, I know it's not all that pretty. It's only the third coil I've ever wrapped, so go easy on me, OK?

Anyway, I was hoping for 1.5 ohms, but only got 1.4. Still, I can now run the DNA all the way down to 7 watts without it protesting that it can't go that low. Of course it doesn't perform all that well at 7 watts, but I was curious. The draw feels slightly airier. I can't really tell how the flavor is 'cause it's not really broken in yet. In any case, there's no law that says coils have to be round, right?

 

[iowajosh]

That doesn't look bad. It is hard to make one of those perfect round things when you're wrapping around a wick. I'd wrap another one with a slightly bigger pin in the middle so it isn't so tight on the wick. If it hits too dry you can just thin out the very end of the wick with a scissors.

 

[Rossum]

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was actually trying to make a flat (rather than round) coil.

 

[Rossum]

So the above "Picket Fence" flat coil was not that great. Flavor never really popped no matter how much or how little power I put into it and it also ended up developing a funky aroma noticeable in the nose on exhale, which I found unpleasant. I'm not sure whether that was the Ekowool wick or what. The guy who gave me that piece of material had suggested I torch it before using it, but I didn't do that. Maybe I should have.

Anyway, I decided to try something different. Microcoils seem to be all the rage, so I decided to find my box of drill bits and try my hand at one. First, I wrapped some 29 gauge wire around a 1/16" bit. That turned out looking pretty decent but then I scratched my head and realized I'd never get even 2mm silica in there, so I went two sizes up to 3/32. I figured 10 turns of wire would fit, and I'm running my Squape on a DNA-20, which can produce over 8V, so I don't need low resistance. This is the result:

OK, some people are gonna say that's not a proper micro-coil because not all the coils are squeezed tight. True. I got myself a Bernzomatic micro-torch the other day, but I didn't find any appropriate looking needle-nosed pliers or tweezers and the tweezers from my Swiss Army knife heat up too fast. Well too bad; it burns nice and evenly from the center out anyway, so get over it.

However, I cut the wick in the picture too short and that it's sitting too high; not fully down in the channel. I may have over-primed it as well, but that arrangement flooded badly. OK, no problem, it's a micro-coil, so out came the wick and in went a new piece; this time cut to the correct length. I also pushed the coil down some so the wick has a more-or-less straight shot through there.

The result: This thing vapes pretty dang well and produces more flavor than any of the other builds I've made so far. There is however a disadvantage to all that wire: It takes a while to heat up, and it doesn't cool off very quickly either. That can of course be overcome with timing on the fire button. Also, it seems that a single piece of 3mm silica wick is a bit fidgety in terms of getting its length and position exactly right -- a fine line between too dry and flood-prone.

Here's what it looks like after a bit of use:

 

[dice57]

if it was me, I'd drop down to at least a 14 gauge blunt tip needle for the coil, probably go with a 16 gauge one first, then I'd use hemp fiber or cotton wick and just double up on the wick in the channels so that it wouldn't flood. Since the air is supplied from below the build, I'd probably do a vertical mount build. Prefer a vertical mount on atomizers when the air intake is below the build like with the Kayfun and Aqua rba's. The only thing I use silica on now is in the flahi, but only on the wicks that deliver the juice from the tank to the coil build, on the build itself, I use hemp fiber through the coil.

What did the ohms of your coil turn out to be? Surprised am I that 20 watts of power wouldn't quickly heat up your coil. Main advantage of micro's is their quick heat up time, but then you did say you built a mini and not a micro.

 

[Rossum]

What did the ohms of your coil turn out to be?

Dang, did I really forget to state that? 2.4 ohms.

Surprised am I that 20 watts of power wouldn't quickly heat up your coil.

I'm running this a whole lot closer to 10 watts than 20.

In general, the Squape seems to be a happiest around 10 watts with all three builds that I've made so far. I suspect I would need to open up the airflow before it would handle much more, but I'm not ready to take a drill to it. That's probably this device's biggest functional shortcoming; the fact that it doesn't have any means of adjusting airflow. But I will accept that (at least for now) in exchange for the ease of building it, and being able to open it up and fiddle with the build without having to empty the juice.

Anyway, the mini-coil above was fiddly and inconsistent. I tried re-wicking it 3 times, but I could never quite find a wick configuration that hit the magic balance between poppy/gurgling and too dry. Also, the coil's laggard behavior (both when firing and releasing) didn't make it any more endearing. I didn't even make it though the day on this one. So I ripped it out and while contemplating what to do next, the first micro-coil that I'd wrapped around a 1/16" drill bit caught my eye. It had a couple of more turns on it than "the law" dictates, but it was easy enough to take them off the slightly looser end of the coil. So I installed it, but if course there's no way to get either 3mm or even 2mm silica though there. That left only one real option at hand: Cotton. I was generally skeptical about cotton because I'd once tried to replace the flavor wick on a Protank head with cotton from the end of a Q-tip and all I could taste in the resulting head was burning cotton, but I figured what the heck, I might as well try. This is what it looked like:

That's still 29 gauge Kanthal, and it's 1.7 ohms. And the result? Well, I've been vaping myself silly on it. This coil has none of the lag that the previous one did. Also, the cotton is totally different than the silica & Ekowool I've been using. Seriously, I think I've just become an instant convert to cotton! It makes vapor over much wider range of power, without tasting burnt and without the strange and somewhat unpleasant aroma I've been getting in my nose on exhale with the last two setups.

Is it perfect? Well, I think I do get the occasional 'glug' like the beginning of a gurgle, but so far, no actual flooding; so my thought is that I should have used a bit more cotton and rolled it slightly tighter? Obviously, it's easy enough to experiment with that. But my assortment of Kanthal (28, 30 and 32 gauge) has arrived too.

 

[dice57]

Glad to hear the cotton worked out for you. Once you get the densities down it's easy as all get out. When I used cotton, I boiled it first to get rid of any cottony taste, but many find they don't need too. Now that you rediscovered cotton, you just might want to check out degummed hemp fiber. Lasts longer than cotton, flavor is a bit different and out wicks cotton also, and a bit more heat tolerant.

The 2.4 ohm build does explain the long heat up you were experiencing. Largest micro's I've built a 1.9 ohms, but still heat up quickly at 15 watts. I like using 28 awg Kanthal for build of .3-1.8 ohms, works well for me, but did just get some ribbon in, so get to play with that now. Now you just need to get some good needle nose pliers or tweezers, so you can do the heat and squeeze on your coils..

I stopped using silica when I went to micro coil builds, found that the silica couldn't keep up with a micro coil, plus didn't like the possible health issues that could result with those microscopic silica needles that can form when the wick broke down. And cotton is cheap and readily available.

 

[Rossum]

Glad to hear the cotton worked out for you. Once you get the densities down it's easy as all get out.

Yeah but getting that density thing down ain't easy. I've re-wicked that coil a whole bunch of times today trying to get it just right. A couple of the wicks were flooding disasters. I got so frustrated at one point that I put a carto tank back on my mod, but the carto in it was hopelessly flooded too.

However I think I might be close now. But there are lots of other variables as well, for example the length of the wick and whether it a bit down into the vertical channels as well as the position of the coil. I'm starting to think that having the coil be a straight shot in the channel is too low and contributes to flooding; that the coil should be a little higher than that.

Now that you rediscovered cotton, you just might want to check out degummed hemp fiber. Lasts longer than cotton, flavor is a bit different and out wicks cotton also, and a bit more heat tolerant.

Got a source you'd recommend?

The 2.4 ohm build does explain the long heat up you were experiencing.

I think it had as much to do with the mass of the coil; that was a lot of metal and it took just as long to cool off as it did to heat up. I suspect if it I made a 2.4 ohm coil out of 32 gauge, it would only have half the mass and would heat up (and cool off) much more quickly.

Now let me change the subject for a moment. I do not like stainless steel drip tips (they taste funny to me), so I had ordered a nice dual o-ring delrin one made by Atmistique with the Squape. I've been happy enough with it, but decided I needed to pull it today after an episode of flooding/gurgling. Well, I had to use a pair of pliers to get it out and I decided I didn't wish to deal with that on a regular basis. So I looked at what else I had around and spotted this one:

Looks almost like it was made for just for the Squape, doesn't it? It's a "Rook" tip from IB Tanked (the carto-tank people). It's anodized aluminum which doesn't feel funny in my mouth like stainless steel does. It only has one o-ring, but it goes in and comes out with just the right amount of force. It's also available in a wide variety of colors. Anyway, I think it makes this unusual looking RBA even more unique.

 

[iowajosh]

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was actually trying to make a flat (rather than round) coil.

You where clear. I was saying it looks like you are strangling the ekowool a bit. I haven't found the right size for this atomizer but for other ones, it can work well when set up right. And yes, I also think the coil being too low gets some capillary action going that makes this atomizer gurgle. I've been going 1/2 below the deck or so. The funnel or vapor chamber top holds the ends of the wick down so it doesn't fall out of the channel if it is one piece. Two pieces of small wick though and all results vary.

It is a lot more fun to recoil than other tanks. It seems like there is a sweet spot for coil diameter with this one. It has to be the right size so the cotton fills the slots. And big enough that the coil doesn't choke the cotton and burn underneath. Kind of a different one to set up. Good luck.

 

[Rossum]

Yep, it is fun to play with. In fact, I made two new coils for it today. Some proper RBA supplies arrived late yesterday, so I made a better (28 ga) micro-coil, and I also made another "Navy Lifeguard" style could using 2x 2mm Ekowool, which I torched twice, once before wrapping 30 ga wire on it and again after.

However, I haven't installed either one because the existing 29 gauge micro-coil is working pretty well enough right now with the cotton I have in it. I think part of the secret with cotton is not to cut it too short, and to actually have a bit of it down into the vertical channels, something which isn't recommended with silica.

 

[SheerLuckHolmes]

Got my Squape Friday, yesterday. Built a 1.6 coil, shooting for 1.3, oh well. It is a different vape than other atty's I use. I would liken it to smoking a fine cigar rather than a cigarette. The draw is tighter that most devices I use, but not that bad, just can't do any lung hits at all. I have used it on a regulated device and a mechanical. Both produced a pleasing experience. I use the Squape as a relaxing easy drawing experience. I enjoy it. A nice addition to my collection with a personality totally different than the rest.