stacking cells in the P+ 18500

[rojo]

Hey Superdave,

I watched your video for The Kick beta. On the P+ 18500, you use an O ring to help close the gap for the elevated cap. You're tricky.

So, I have a P+ 18500. For a while now I've been wondering whether it's possible to drop in two short batteries for higher voltage vaping, similar to dropping two LifePO4 cells into the 18650. What about just a couple of CR2's?

The 18500 cell is 50mm long. Two CR2's or 15270's would be 54mm combined I think, and would result in 7.4v vaping. The thinner cells could be shimmed (or at least padded) laterally with O rings, and you know I'm not above having a bunch of O rings decorating the outside of my P+.

Have you ever tried stacking CR2's or 15270's into the 18500? If the stock O rings at the bottom of the tube near the firing button were removed (or at least replaced with a thinner ring from Harbor Freight or similar), and two or three O rings were added to the threads at the top cap, I'm thinking the top cap will still be able to screw down at least 2 or 3 mm. That might be close enough for government work anyway. What is your professional opinion?

 

[forcedfuel50]

Good afternoon SuperRojo!

I don't know that you could stack them well due to the big ID of the mod and small diameter of the battery. I wouldn't stack CR2's, at least not the CR2's from back in the day. I think they have some lifepo4 chemistry ones nowadays. What would be the real solution is for a battery manufacturer to make some lifepo4 3.0 volt 18250 batteries!!! Now that would be awesome!

 

[pAth77]

What about using these 14250s? I've heard of people stacking them in their 14500 mods. Like you said, you would have to pad it a bit since they are 4mm narrower. I think that's the closest you'll get until David can convince AW to make an 18250

 

[rojo]

What about using these 14250s?

Those are apparently still 27mm tall, according to the site you linked. They're lower mAh with no benefit over 15270's. I've got some protected 3.7v 15270's and a couple of 5 ohm attys ordered. I'll post some pics and my impressions when I get them.

 

[Vaporologist]

Those are apparently still 27mm tall, according to the site you linked. They're lower mAh with no benefit over 15270's. I've got some protected 3.7v 15270's and a couple of 5 ohm attys ordered. I'll post some pics and my impressions when I get them.

Just be careful... Those batteries are considerably narrower than you P+ and could get pushed and fall through the bottom oring. Just make sure you don't short them out. Sorry, I meant to tell you this earlier today but we didn't have enough time to talk about everything and I just forgot until now.

 

[rojo]

Just be careful... Those batteries are considerably narrower than you P+ and could get pushed and fall through the bottom oring. Just make sure you don't short them out. Sorry, I meant to tell you this earlier today but we didn't have enough time to talk about everything and I just forgot until now.

That's a good point. I might have to try to find an 18mm o.d. vinyl washer or sumn to replace the bottom O rings. We'll see what happens.

 

[rojo]

I did it! I got my 3.7v 15270 cells and 5Ω attys today -- well, yesterday, but I didn't check the mail until today. I won't get into why it took so long to get them.

Anyway, 7.4v @ 5Ω ~ 11w. And man, this thing snaps, crackles and pops when I fire it.

OK. So I had to wrap the 15270's in teflon tape to beef them up to ~ 18mm diameter. This is pretty much only to prevent rattling, though. Even with the smaller diameter, the cells don't fall through the bottom. They *just* sit on the edge of the divider between the button chamber of the tube and the battery chamber.

It's a good thing, too, because even with a 1mm poly-fiber washer underneath, there's not enough room to screw the top cap on.

So, in order to do this, I must not use any washers or O-rings underneath the batteries, nor any spacers on the firing button. Now this is important: the bottom cap needs to be brought down a little to accommodate the more deeply seated batteries; so an A113 O-ring goes on the bottom cap threads to keep it from screwing in all the way. The top cap gets three thinner A016 O-rings. It only threads down maybe 3/4 to one full turn like this.

Is it worth it? Probably not for everyday vaping. I doubt these cells will maintain their charge as long as an IMR 18490. Plus, I'm sure having no stress absorbing O-rings under the batteries puts undue strain and friction on the rhodium finish on the firing pins. But if you're in a hacking mood and are feeling adventurous, I say go for it!

(As of the writing of this comment, I've only taken maybe 5 hits so far. I just wanted to let you know, this is possible.)

 

[forcedfuel50]

Good morning Rojo,

I would cease stacking those cells immediately, your health is too important. After reading about the guy just the other day who had stacked cells explode and take out his teeth, burn his eyes and imbed the drip tip in his face, we all should cease stacking cells (even lifepo4's as that is what was claimed to have failed). Wait for the kick to come out to get your higher voltage, it isn't worth the risk!

David

 

[rojo]

If you've never tried high voltage vaping, you might ask, what's the difference? A fully-charged 3.7v IMR battery putting out 4 volts into a 1.5 ohm atty is roughly the same wattage as 7.4 volts into a 5 ohm atty, right? Well, give or take a half a watt or so.

It's definitely warmer. While, as one might expect, the throat hit is more than adequate, the higher voltage has the biggest effect on flavor. If you vape tobacco flavors, coffee or sweet flavors you usually associate with warm food (like waffles or apple pie), you might appreciate a warmer vape. On the other hand, if you vape ice cream or mojito, you'll find the taste somewhat wrong.

At the moment, I'm finding every taste wrong. I guess 5 ohm atomizers aren't very popular, huh? This one I'm still trying to break in tastes like straight up prison tossed salad (and not the leafy green kind), like the primer has been festering in the coils for years. I guess I've been spoiled by my 1.5Ω IKV attys. :> Oh well. I'll keep breaking it in, and maybe one day I'll spring for a couple of high resistance IKV attys now that I know the 15270 cells work in the P+18500.

 

[5vz]

Good morning Rojo,

I would cease stacking those cells immediately, your health is too important. After reading about the guy just the other day who had stacked cells explode and take out his teeth, burn his eyes and imbed the drip tip in his face, we all should cease stacking cells (even lifepo4's as that is what was claimed to have failed). Wait for the kick to come out to get your higher voltage, it isn't worth the risk!

David

Whaaaaatttt?????!!!! Yikes!!!

 

[rojo]

Good morning Rojo,

I would cease stacking those cells immediately, your health is too important. After reading about the guy just the other day who had stacked cells explode and take out his teeth, burn his eyes and imbed the drip tip in his face, we all should cease stacking cells (even lifepo4's as that is what was claimed to have failed). Wait for the kick to come out to get your higher voltage, it isn't worth the risk!

David

You think Ultrafire protected cells have this danger? My P+ is still very cool. The batteries aren't warming up at all. :\

 

[forcedfuel50]

You think Ultrafire protected cells have this danger? My P+ is still very cool. The batteries aren't warming up at all. :\

Absolutely they do, and given their quality, probably even more so. It isn't worth your safety.

 

[rojo]

Absolutely they do, and given their quality, probably even more so. It isn't worth your safety.

Well, since my 5 ohm attys taste like .... crack anyway and I'm having to use pennies as spacers to charge my 15270's, it's not hard to convince me to stick with single cell 18490's. It was worth it for the novelty and the adventure for a little while, anyway.

Update: I found other discussion regarding the explosion you were talking about.

So are you going to cease recommending stacking cells in the P+ 18650 for 6v vaping?

 

[snork]

Good morning Rojo,

I would cease stacking those cells immediately, your health is too important. After reading about the guy just the other day who had stacked cells explode and take out his teeth, burn his eyes and imbed the drip tip in his face, we all should cease stacking cells (even lifepo4's as that is what was claimed to have failed). Wait for the kick to come out to get your higher voltage, it isn't worth the risk!

David

Oh, man. Not what I wanted to hear.
Allright, caveman snork will just have to get a Kick.

 

[snork]

Oh, man. Not what I wanted to hear.
Allright, caveman snork will just have to get a Kick.

OK, I read the story. That, coupled with a little bit of a personal freak-out just made me run upstairs and take the LiFePO4's out of my P+18650.
The day before yesterday I had it in my pocket, felt a bit warm through my pants. Got it out and the atty wasn't hot, but the body sure was. The atty was fine. So it wasn't like it was firing in my pocket, just sitting there getting HOT in my pocket.
Bummer.
What does everybody know about the relative safety of the NI-MH 4.8 volt green batts?
[Edit: I've converted it back to 18650 configuration (AW IMR 1600 mah) - one thin & one thick o-ring and four washers, correct?]

 

[Hrathor]

OK, I read the story. That, coupled with a little bit of a personal freak-out just made me run upstairs and take the LiFePO4's out of my P+18650.
The day before yesterday I had it in my pocket, felt a bit warm through my pants. Got it out and the atty wasn't hot, but the body sure was. The atty was fine. So it wasn't like it was firing in my pocket, just sitting there getting HOT in my pocket.
Bummer.
What does everybody know about the relative safety of the NI-MH 4.8 volt green batts?
[Edit: I've converted it back to 18650 configuration (AW IMR 1600 mah) - one thin & one thick o-ring and four washers, correct?]

No idea on the relative safety, but I have been using them for a couple of weeks with no problems, other than they need to be charged a lot more often.

 

[snork]

I made the commitment and sold all of my AW LiFePo4s yesterday. I'm sure they are safe as milk, but why take a chance when a Kick will do the trick?

 

[forcedfuel50]

I made the commitment and sold all of my AW LiFePo4s yesterday. I'm sure they are safe as milk, but why take a chance when a Kick will do the trick?

Good choice Snork. And yes, one thick, one thin and 3 or 4 washers for the Aw IMR 18650 1600mah.