Actually, Steve Jobs got canned from Apple once for his lunacy. He got hired back yes, and he took the company over the top stipulated, but the fact remains his ego got him canned and knocked Apple into the dirt for a couple of years.
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Actually, Steve Jobs got canned from Apple once for his lunacy. He got hired back yes, and he took the company over the top stipulated, but the fact remains his ego got him canned and knocked Apple into the dirt for a couple of years.
would be better for FC tbh, as he was an Officer in the Royal Navy, he is more likely to have a sense of honour
I have to say that I agree whole hearted with what Asher has said, but wanted to add a few less well articulated comments of my own.
Like many my first purchase came from TW (an ego kit), and I have recommended them to many in the past. As someone who runs their own business I appreciate TW have more overheads than other suppliers which are mostly small one man/woman bands, so their pricing reflects this. I like much about them and subscribe to their mailing lists. I think that TW have helped many, many people quit tobacco, which is great, and they have help to raise awareness of ecigs. I also think that Fraser's statement is well thought out and articulated, and had it not been for all the interchanges on threads by his brother since this whole thing kicked off it may have had an impact on me.
I have no idea about any of the politics at play here. I enjoy my PV's, I love to vape and I am on the forums most days, learning from others, purchasing mods and where I can helping a few others in their learning. It is a rich community of mostly great people all comming together because of their interest (and in many cases, including mine, obsession) in everything vaping.
Without these forums I would still be in the dark, probably still smoking tobacco. I found ECF, then because I live in the uk, moved mostly onto UKvapers. I understand that yesturday's bun fight got a bit out of hand. Given the chance I am sure that the mods in UKV would have just edited any comments from TW and other members that did not meet their rules. This action by TW and subsequent behaviour by their CEO is damaging mainly to TW, but also to us all. Jason, I don't know you, have never spoken to you, but i urge you to please think about the implications of your actions when you calm down, as you have a chance to put this right, and at least prevent it from getting any worse.
To the people who run UKV I say don't be intimidated by one person who does not appear to have a legal case. There are 6000 members who will support you in, encouragement and if necessary in sanctions and financial aid and I count myself in this. There is a bigger picture here, and it's about doing the right thing. There is always a way, you just need to find it. You have my full support and I'm sure that of 1000's of others
Well I have had my say, and the mods here in ECF may well feel that what I have written does not conform to ecf rules (it may be tiny bit off topic too). I hope not
off topic to the "max" but "really" think "totally" that things could "actually" have been handled more "groovy".
ps - dont sue me its just a "cosmic" feeling.
ps - dont sue me its just a "cosmic" feeling.
Folks -- ECF's stance on this entire situation is pretty simple. We believe that our members have the right to complain about service, talk about faulty equipment and generally exchange information whether it paints a company in a positive light or a negative light.
What we do not believe in is allowing members (or suppliers) to engage in shilling, crusades, libel and other "bad behavior". Internet forums are about exchanging information, but our basic rule has always been "attack the post, not the poster". We have seen quite a few of these incidents over the years and I think it is fair to say that after this one blows over there will be another one to take it's place as the hot topic.
What we do not believe in is allowing members (or suppliers) to engage in shilling, crusades, libel and other "bad behavior". Internet forums are about exchanging information, but our basic rule has always been "attack the post, not the poster". We have seen quite a few of these incidents over the years and I think it is fair to say that after this one blows over there will be another one to take it's place as the hot topic.
This is way out of hand Cropper is an easy target for baiting because he reacts and people know that .
Devlin has gone all girlie in her defence but thats to be expected .
Just to clarify things Ive never bought from Tw so am a neutral
Just my opinion Guys and gals
Devlin has gone all girlie in her defence but thats to be expected .
Just to clarify things Ive never bought from Tw so am a neutral
Just my opinion Guys and gals
And you're entitled to it, though I'd say there was plenty flame baiting going on both sides. I was on UKV at the time it all started kicking off, and the horny guy came out swinging. There had been a few posts about some defective kit, individual posters not happy about well known home grown pvs, you know the score. I have my own suspicions about what caused him to be particularly on his twinkle toes that day though, and anyone else following the lead up to when gaskets blew will have a clue too.
Im not aware of earlier issues and really dont care, I was on AAEC when Devlin popped in for the first time in quite a while and she is a politician and Cropper is basic , this aint my fight and I dont give a fig who wins
again just my opinion
again just my opinion
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Fair enough. I use UKV and was in the midst of a fairly involved transaction when it got pulled. Fair enough on the Devlin v Cropper thing - I don't give a toss about that either, I'm a consumer not a cheerleader. But like you I call it as I see it. And what I saw was a lot of hair pulling on both sides. Net result - community loses out.
"Tonight on Click, Bang!
We will be discussing the Totally Wicked/UK Vapers/ECITA situation.
Jason from Totally Wicked and Sam Munro will be my guests to talk about what's going on. If you would like to call in to ask questions or express your opinion, the call in number is 1-347-308-8329
9PM EST
VP Live | Vapers Place
mobile devices: VP-LIVE View "
copy and pasted
We will be discussing the Totally Wicked/UK Vapers/ECITA situation.
Jason from Totally Wicked and Sam Munro will be my guests to talk about what's going on. If you would like to call in to ask questions or express your opinion, the call in number is 1-347-308-8329
9PM EST
VP Live | Vapers Place
mobile devices: VP-LIVE View "
copy and pasted
Look, the conflict of interest thing aside (because that is NOT why people are out with their pitchforks against JC), how the PR side of this thing was handled is simply laughable.
I can understand that it is unpleasant seeing a product you probably worked hard for be shot down by a few people on a forum. There will always be people that dislike your product. How it should have been handled was constructively:
"what exactly do you not like about it?"
"what makes you not buy this product as is?"
"do you have any suggestions how it could be improved?"
Etc. You get my point.
This is the kind of behavior that I personally expect from a good company. This kind of behavior generates extra business.
Not: I do not want part of your community because it is biased blah blah blah I will take legal action blah blah blah. By doing so you should be aware of the consequences, whether you are right or wrong. A big part of the community will see this as the actions of a bully and steer clear of him and his company in the future, let alone what the word of mouth resulting of that does to your company image afterwards.
If that wasn't enough, this was followed by tirades and inconsistent drivel, publicly threatening and insulting members (the very same thing he is accusing everyone of).
I have seen Jason state a few times against individual posters "you think I care about losing your business? I have enough customers" (or something of the likes, this is not a direct quote, but that is the jist of it). Apart from the fact that this kind of cheap statements alone reduce your credibility to 0, he is obviously unaware that for every person making the decision to not buy from him again and actually posting it, there are dozens that are reading along and forming that same opinion.
About the whole ECITA thing... I can actually see why Jason draws the conflict of interest card. But I wonder if he ever picked up the phone and had a real life conversation to clear all this up, prior to this whole meltdown for the entire world to see. It seems to me that these are all speculative thoughts in the head of one man, with some negative feedback about his company on a forum that is somehow linked to ECITA triggering a "it is all connected, they are conspiring against me!!!" reaction.
It's the vaping community in the UK. EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED. So yeah, there's enough material for conspiracy theories, if you really want to see one, I guess.
I can understand that it is unpleasant seeing a product you probably worked hard for be shot down by a few people on a forum. There will always be people that dislike your product. How it should have been handled was constructively:
"what exactly do you not like about it?"
"what makes you not buy this product as is?"
"do you have any suggestions how it could be improved?"
Etc. You get my point.
This is the kind of behavior that I personally expect from a good company. This kind of behavior generates extra business.
Not: I do not want part of your community because it is biased blah blah blah I will take legal action blah blah blah. By doing so you should be aware of the consequences, whether you are right or wrong. A big part of the community will see this as the actions of a bully and steer clear of him and his company in the future, let alone what the word of mouth resulting of that does to your company image afterwards.
If that wasn't enough, this was followed by tirades and inconsistent drivel, publicly threatening and insulting members (the very same thing he is accusing everyone of).
I have seen Jason state a few times against individual posters "you think I care about losing your business? I have enough customers" (or something of the likes, this is not a direct quote, but that is the jist of it). Apart from the fact that this kind of cheap statements alone reduce your credibility to 0, he is obviously unaware that for every person making the decision to not buy from him again and actually posting it, there are dozens that are reading along and forming that same opinion.
About the whole ECITA thing... I can actually see why Jason draws the conflict of interest card. But I wonder if he ever picked up the phone and had a real life conversation to clear all this up, prior to this whole meltdown for the entire world to see. It seems to me that these are all speculative thoughts in the head of one man, with some negative feedback about his company on a forum that is somehow linked to ECITA triggering a "it is all connected, they are conspiring against me!!!" reaction.
It's the vaping community in the UK. EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED. So yeah, there's enough material for conspiracy theories, if you really want to see one, I guess.
Never have and never will buy from them.
I did chuckle at the mention of 'freedom of speech' in there somewhere yet over on their forum (from what ive, erm 'allegedly' read) and minor criticism of their products or service gets removed. Same with the youtube videos.
The vendors who take any criticism on the chin and do what they can to resolve the issue between the consumer and themselves are much more worthy of what little money people have these days to be spending on products.
Im no businessman but he's ...... a lot of people off and the only result i can see is thats a lot of money thats going to be spent elsewhere
I did chuckle at the mention of 'freedom of speech' in there somewhere yet over on their forum (from what ive, erm 'allegedly' read) and minor criticism of their products or service gets removed. Same with the youtube videos.
The vendors who take any criticism on the chin and do what they can to resolve the issue between the consumer and themselves are much more worthy of what little money people have these days to be spending on products.
Im no businessman but he's ...... a lot of people off and the only result i can see is thats a lot of money thats going to be spent elsewhere
Enjoying the show, bit late for me to see it through, but I'm gonna try.
??? it's not going to be on for another hour . how are you enjoying it ?
Ever feel like you’ve just “shot yourself in the foot?” Self-defeating behaviors are beliefs and behaviors that cause us to sabotage the one thing we want the most because we believe we do not deserve it. Believe it or not, most people are their own worst enemies. We will behave in a way that will validate whatever it is we believe.
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Hehe, I mean generally. I tend to catch the recorded episodes but I sometimes catch the live broadcasts. Like I say, I'm gonna try to catch it tonight and have a lie in as I'm working from home tomorrow
Well Fraser, do what you have said then; and get off UKV forum's back, let UK Vapers have their forum back, and have some humility for what has affected the whole vaping community worldwide...
It really is that simple!
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