Statement from Totally Wicked

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NGIB

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I read a bit from the cached pages and I'm nauseous. I detest bullies in any form and I really hope folks vote with their wallet. Explaining to suppliers why you can't pay the bills isn't fun at all and bullying them does not work. Money = power, why anyone in their right mind give this fella money is beyond me...
 
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asha23

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Jason was on Click Bang last night. It was interesting to say the least.
Totally Wicked vs. The World by VP Live on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
or you can listen here
VP Live | Vapers Place
for mobile devices
VP-LIVE View

I'm listening to it.
Waiting for an apology to all the people he insulted. IE. innocent bystanders on the receiving end of Jason's rants, who have nothing to do with the politics and had nothing to do with any criticism of any products. Which incidentally I think are decent.

At this point for most people, that's all thats required.

I'm glad he admits that TW are too big a company for him to be on forums ranting. It simply makes TW look like they don't have any control over their brand.

I believe that everyone should listen to this show. As there are some reasonable things being said by all parties.

"Don't make it personal"...
 
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b3ast1e

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You won't find it. I stayed up last night to listen to it live. All it is is repetition of his position, some halfhearted acknowledgement that his beef isn't directly with the UKV community but with ECITA and some of it's executives, that he's had enough of insults and being called names - absolutely no acknowledgement that he himself indulged in that plenty often, only that he felt he'd be better to avoid forums (I agree) and let his legal eagles do the talking in future or words to that effect. He used that bogus YT user account as a smokescreen to make himself look like the victim of a wider smear campaign being waged against him and his company basically, then later claimed he didn't consider himself a victim.

edit: that bit in bold sounds wrong and I wouldn't want to get myself in trouble. I meant, he was using the incident, not that he'd set the bogus account up himself, no question in my mind that it was some random guy causing problems for everyone...phew, dodged a bullet.
 
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Toby

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You won't find it. I stayed up last night to listen to it live. All it is is repetition of his position, some halfhearted acknowledgement that his beef isn't directly with the UKV community but with ECITA and some of it's executives, that he's had enough of insults and being called names - absolutely no acknowledgement that he himself indulged in that plenty often, only that he felt he'd be better to avoid forums (I agree) and let his legal eagles do the talking in future or words to that effect. He used that bogus YT user account as a smokescreen to make himself look like the victim of a wider smear campaign being waged against him and his company basically, then later claimed he didn't consider himself a victim.

Thanks for the synopsis... (as I really won't find the time to listen to it)

So it sounds to me if it might be wise to take up whatever issue with ECITA directly themselves instead of UKV (or any other) forum.. and stop dragging and punishing innocent bystanders into it all...
 

b3ast1e

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Thanks for the synopsis... (as I really won't find the time to listen to it)

So it sounds to me if it might be wise to take up whatever issue with ECITA directly themselves instead of UKV (or any other) forum.. and stop dragging and punishing innocent bystanders into it all...
Yeah that would certainly be the rational minded route to take. He did try to give some explanation of how he got himself roped into a mud slinging contest on a public forum, saying that he was still that man who started out small time on ebay with 20 kits, and still thought that way and perhaps ought not to given his company's profile. Another poster last night put it that Devlin is political and Cropper is basic and I think that's a fair way to describe how it's gone so far.

We're all thinking the same thing aren't we? This whole thing, regardless of the twists and turns behind the scenes that no consumer honestly gives a toss about, would have been very easy to handle - don't get involved in slurs and insults of potential or existing customers and don't rise to theirs, I mean that's a given, surely a guy as successful as he's been must have learned that? Definitely don't get caught out in the wild with your Charlie Sheen head on while wearing your business cap either, if you've got a legal case then keep it between you and the other party, don't make it everybody else's war too.

And finally, don't screw up a community just because you have a beef with one or two parties, because you're just going to attract the wrath of hundreds of people who actively use it, and you're forcing us to pick a side when it's not our fight.

Basic indeed.
 

asha23

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Also. I believe Totally Wicked would do well to review their social media policy. As companies get larger, it becomes more important that they present themselves in a unified and professional manner across all social platforms. (Forums are very much a part of this)

It can do nothing but damage to the brand if the CEO of any company starts revealing what is (In TW's case) essentially internal corporate machinations between themselves and other parties... At present, it is one person bandying around speculation. Or an opinion. You only reveal corporate machinations once an outcome has been reached.

I believe it would have been far better to just suck up the criticism. As it was not really damaging. (I personally think that TW's new mod looks really cool. But I've not tried it so will limit my opinion to that). However. Taking a rise to it, very publically is not the way to manage press.

The internet is essentially press - More companies would do well to identify and recognize this. Anything posted in regard to your company. No matter how tenuous. Is effectively press.

I have been a digital advertising professional for getting on for 15 years now and if any company I did business with conducted themselves on open-forums like Totally Wicked have been doing of late, then I would be strongly advising them to take a long hard look at their social media policy, advertising strategy, press and P.R. Because all that money they have spent on these things up to now has literally just been flushed down the crapper. The more viral this goes. The more they'll need to flush that money away...

I would also advise the CEO to delegate the management of this side of the business to experienced professionals that they employ specifically for purpose... I'd also advise that they only use recognized and easy-to-manage channels for the most part (Twitter/Facebook) and have minimal involvement with individual forum threads other than their own. Lastly. I would advise the director of said company to take a step back and stop attempting to micro-manage public opinion of their company. It's impossible to do this. Opinion will be formed about you related to your OUTWARD APPEARANCE. Your company has it's own personality (Brand). This is not the same as the personality of the CEO but it is intertwined with it. If people think the CEO is a ...... They will think the company he represents is crap too. No amount of marketing dollar will fix public opinion once it's set.

Lesson 1 of social media policy. Do not go viral in a negative way. It is very difficult to fix and can be extremely detrimental to the public's perception of your business. Always strategise social media and viral content outcomes. Do not do it on-the-fly.

Lesson 2. Do not defend your reasoning with angry rants at individuals on forums. So, you post a video on YouTube. It goes viral. People don't like it. Don't, whatever the hell you do, reply to these people. Especially if you are the CEO of the company behind the video. Even if you, as CEO don't agree with the things that are being said. Suck it up. Think harder before you just post things on YouTube because you "think they are funny". Perhaps ask your marketing department if it's a good idea first... They will know. It's what you pay them for... You are a multinational corporation, not a bloke in his bedroom. Act like it.

Lesson 3. So. You have gone viral. The response is initially negative. Whoops!!. STOP POSTING. Don't try and deflect opinion away from it. Don't defend it. Just leave it alone. It's now in the wild. There is nothing to be done. The horse has bolted. Initial reaction is often knee-jerk. Let it mature. Let it sit. Bed down. DO NOT. Jump all over it and start calling your customers sheep, a hive, naive... That stokes all the wrong kinda flames and makes it even worse.

Lesson 4. Employ the right people for the job of managing your companies social media policy. Trust these people. Do not micro-manage them. Let them do their job. Strategize. Do not go behind their backs. Identify your brand. Identify where you want your brand to be in 5 years. Do nothing to compromise this brand or where you want it to be in 5 years. No matter what you may think personally. This is not about you as an individual. It is about your COMPANY as an individual.

Anyhoo. Thought I'd share this.
 
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Ape

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Well...

ECITA is fighting for the continuation of the ecig, as a recreational habit, at European parliament right now.
I must thank them for that, I really do, because there's our only shield here in EU.
I've loved the transcript of the women about what happened during the hearing, with pharma and big tobacco lawyers there, etc.

On the other hand, it seems they (ECITA) are trying to be THE accredited organism by EU, for quality control, sample testing, ROHS compliance, etc. And on their website they charge £600/month (about 760 Euros, 930 USD) for that.

But a lot of little starting shops won't be able to pay that kind of money. That's for sure.
So only the bigger websites will be able to continue. That is to say the founding members of ECITA, for the most part.
If the Dalli commission gives them enough power to.

Moreover, to come back to the TW problem, one of the interesting thing said by Jason (aka Pillbox38), is that ECITA has been calling Flavourings companies, to scare them about selling their products to new e-liquid producers.
(that it might not be safe to vape menthol, etc.) Interesting.

I did not made my mind about it untill the famous ECITA/UKV moderator post a reply on the previous thread.
He said that the real story, according to him: it was the flavourings company that called ECITA about their concern to sell flavourings for ecig purpose. And then ECITA said "it might not be safe" (= "I duno" lol).

But isnt'it strange that the flavourings factory indeed called ECITA ?
If I'm was in their shoes, I would have prefer to call sanitary/legal organism (the english equivalent of FDA).
Why the hell would they call a small unknown company like ECITA ? It sounds very curious.

I don't know the staff members of UKV. I don't know their implication with ECITA (except for the ECITA moderator).
I can't comment about it. But indeed there's curious things bout ECITA.

And this maybe the background in the mind of Pillbox38...


EDIT: also, the guy from ECITA says they were pretty concern about the product from TW wich might not be ROSH compliant. But TW sells Joyetech products, as a lot of people.
Why it would be different for TW ?
 
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Toby

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I don't know the staff members of UKV. I don't know their implication with ECITA (except for the ECITA moderator).
I can't comment about it.

I can.

They are all people who have a love of vaping, and want to give up much of their time to moderate a totally independent forum! :)

Only one of them (Crossbow, who is an excellent moderator I might add) has affiliation with ECITA.
 
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ApOsTle51

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I think people need some background on this to draw conclusions of their own so without breaking any rules I hope:

the vapefest poll :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://ukvapers.com/topic/26283-should-vendors-who-have-expressed-a-dislike-for-the-community-be-allowed-into-vapefest/

and the odyssey review that seemed to kick it all off :

page 1/ page 2 page 3 page 4 page 5 page 6 page 7 page 8 page 9 page 10

and the m6 video thread with all his conspiracy jargon :

Page 1 page 2 page 3 page 4 page 5 page 6 page 7 page 8 page 9 page 10 page 11

Just listening to the click bang podcast , seems to me his beef is with ECITA and the conflict of interest there and UKV has just been caught up in another conspiracy theory..
 
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Danousa

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Spazmelda

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I just read through the Oddyssey thread and it wasn't at all what I was expecting based on the way I heard it described on the vaping program. Was it edited after the TW guy's complaints? I didn't think it was very bad at all. Some people who didn't have one were commenting, but it seemed to be mostly about specs, not saying it was crap as the TW guy said on the program.
 

smoklessatlast

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He said that the real story, according to him: it was the flavourings company that called ECITA about their concern to sell flavourings for ecig purpose. And then ECITA said "it might not be safe"
The impression I got from what I've read is that the flavourings in question were not the same as those normally sold for this purpose, a different form of concentrate or something. If true, then a comment that "it might not be safe" is not unreasonable. If the concentrates in this form have never before been sold to any supplier for this purpose then it can't be seen as some sort of attempt to exclude TW. If it is normal for the company to sell exactly the same goods in exactly the same form to others for the same purpose why would they be ringing anyone?
 
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