Steeping one flavor is neccessary??

[Ethan diy]

Hey all good to be here.
Id like to ask if anyone knows if i make a juice out of one single flavor (any flavor) is there a neccessity to steep it at all? Cause maybe steeping is just for multiple flavors or is for mixing into the rest of the compnents.... no idea.
Sorry for the ignorance
Would appreciate the knowledge
thanks.

 

[AzPlumber]

Depends on the flavor, one flavor fruits probably not but tobaccos, coffees, creams need to steep a bit.

 

[NatashaTMT]

This is one of those that’ll be based on your likes and dislikes. I’ve found that I prefer to give almost any mix at least a 24 hour steep. 3 days steep is a another I use frequently as it seems to be when a lot of fruity and sometimes candy types are ready to my taste. This is approximately how I steep but it’s not set in stone as some ripen quicker and some need more ageing...

1-2 fruits - some simpler mixes are tasty enough as a s&v (shake & vape) between 2 hrs to 1 day
fruits & fruity candy types - 1 to 3+ days
beverage & bakery without creams - 1 to 2+ weeks
bakery, gourmet or anything with creams or custards - 2 wks to 1+ month(s)
tobacco - while you can s&v, they become richer with time (I don’t use but found this in my research)

You’ll find that different people have different ideas of what a s&v actually is. While some take it as meaning you can vape it immediately after mixing, to others it means vapable about 2 hrs after mixing once it "settles”. Some also refer to shake and vape as one ready in 2 to 3 days of mixing.
The more intricate the mix, most likely, the longer the steep needed. While some custards need a month+, a couple might be ideal in a week. As @Letitia stated, brand and type really are vital in determining this, as is the flavors combined in a mix. Experience alone will be your best ally here to determine how you like your mixes to age

 

[classwife]

I do it with all new atomizers regardless of whether I can sense the machine oil smell. Who knows what was on the hands of the person who packed it?

Yeppers.
I wash everything inside and out that I can.
Mods, and batteries I wipe down with alcohol.

 

[Nate5700]

I think it depends on the flavor. On my first foray into DIY, which was a few years ago, I remember having a tobacco flavor that I liked as a standalone. It was TFA Desert Ship (don't even know if TFA still makes it). It was OK right away, then it would get this perfume taste to it after a day or two. But then after a week or so it was excellent.

I've been vaping TFA Apple Tart the last few days though, and you can just mix it and start vaping.

 

[Beamslider]

Some single flavors definitely require a long steep or they aren't tasty. Some can be vaped almost instantly after mixing and taste great. Name a specific brand and flavor and someone will be able to answer your question

 

[MartinD]

I steep liquids one to two days if they are fruits, two weeks if they are desserts and a minimum of three, four weeks in the case of tobacco. There are flavors that are used immediately - Pink Spot for example.Which aromas did you think, which pg / vg ratio is your base and how much nicotine does it contain? Someone certainly made some of that and can help you to determine a starting point for dosing and steeping.

Poslato sa PRA-LX1 uz pomoć Tapatoka

 

[stols001]

I got a UC for steeping but have found on my mixing schedule and with my flavors, it's not necessary at all, so I don't do it. I will say it's useful for cleaning tanks and etc. so I'm happy I have it.

Fruits, berries and one shots may not require much steeping at all. Same with sweetener, you can often just shake and vape (if you find mixes that need sweetening).

I usually don't taste anything I mix for at least a week (unless it's a new flavor, a citrus, or another flavor that can fade). Many people will make larger batches of flavors they use a lot that need more steeping (a month or more) and use it with flavors that may fade faster.

Single flavors, well, it depends, but I don't expect to get "the ideal state" for a flavor in less than a week. There's nothing wrong with trying heat steeping or a UC to speed things along, especially at first, although too much of it can lead to flavor loss, IMO. It's the main reason I try to keep my mixing to once a month, although I have older flavors hanging around (primarily a tiramisu) that was godawful when I mixed it but has mellowed considerably (it's about 2 or 3 months old). I do keep some of my failed mixes around for more steeping, on occasion (depending on the type of flavor) before I try to fix a "failed" mix.

Best of luck, I find time to be the most reliable and predictable so that is what I use (with a good shaking every now and again.)

Anna

 

[NatashaTMT]

A wise mixer who frequents ECF once recommended I do little experiments to determine which mixing style and/or steep length, and combos of, I prefer to my taste. For example: You’ve found a fruit concentrate you like to vape alone, mixed only with your VG, PG & nicotine. You need to determine if it’d be better, for your taste, as a shake and vape, 24 hours after mixing or aged 3 days. You’d mix one of each to be aged to the mentioned ages. So first mix your 3 day, wait 2 days and mix the 24 hr steep and then the last day mix your s&v. Be sure to label or mark in some way to keep confusion at bay. Then, test them all, closely noticing and comparing nuances. Try to determine which is best for your taste. You could also try them all, or just the s&v, again at 2 hrs, 4 hrs, 12 hrs etc... You may place the s&v differently after its aged a few hours etc. My point is, no one can really tell you which way you’ll prefer your mixes steeped or mixed. Though we can share what works for us. As long as whatever methods you decide to use works for you, there is no right or wrong way for all!

Edit:
So there’s another way to compare mixes at different ages. You can simply try them along the way and take notes. This works well for me now. When I was newer to mixing, it helped me to do it the way I described above.
If I’m doing sft (single flavor testing) for a concentrate I know won’t need a long steep, I usually do 3-5ml testers. If it’s one either I’m not sure of or will definitely take longer, I do 6-10ml to have enough to test at different times throughout the steep.

 

[go_player]

So there’s another way to compare mixes at different ages. You can simply try them along the way and take notes. This works well for me now. When I was newer to mixing, it helped me to do it the way I described above.
If I’m doing sft (single flavor testing) for a concentrate I know won’t need a long steep, I usually do 3-5ml testers. If it’s one either I’m not sure of or will definitely take longer, I do 6-10ml to have enough to test at different times throughout the steep.

This is, as a practical matter, how you have to test recipes, unless you work on very few at a time or you get paid to develop juice. I've done the work to make a few samples come together on the same day at different ages but it's more work than I (and I think most people) are willing to go to in general. So we must rely on our memory and our notes. And every once in a while a bottle of this I made in January vs one I just made.

I think some vastly wealthy person ought to endow a chair of juice science at my local University and appoint me chair. There's a well-funded school of food science there, devoted to making Fritos tastier as far as I can tell. There are so many experiments I'd conduct if I had the resources to do so.

 

[FranC]

@Ethan diy Another thread you might want to check out. Lots of random informative.
Random DIY mixing and More

 

[Letitia]

Depends on brand and flavor.

 

[DeloresRose]

There are some I could vape right away, but all I use are better after a wait. Do you have to? No. There are no juice police. There will be no repercussions.

 

[NatashaTMT]

I like a slosh of 91% alcohol and a shot of dish soap in the water when I put atomizer parts in the UC. The machine oil in a new atomizer dissolves pretty quickly when I do that.

@Ethan diy I know several mixers who purchased ultrasonic scrubbers earlier in their DIY journey who now only use them to clean their gear, tanks, etc. So it’d be factual to say many of the elders have deemed them not worth the hassle of steeping their juice in one. Though it’d also be factual to say there are also a significant amount of mixers who swear by them. I know it’s not much help when I keep saying this, but it’s another personal preference based on your likes, etc.

(Elder: Any mixer with more experience than I)

 

[DaveP]

Do you run your new attys through before using them?

I do it with all new atomizers regardless of whether I can sense the machine oil smell. Who knows what was on the hands of the person who packed it?

 

[BrotherBob]

I wonder really if anyone did make a steeping chart for flavors alone.

Steeping is not something I consider a subject of concern. Some juices change a little with aging; some change a lot. I mix many mixes per session and everything gets 4 weeks min. and more often, 2-3 months is not unusual. It's all about managing what you mix vs what you have left in stock. I believe If a mix is not good or has not approached my minimal taste acceptance (after a few shakes various times through the aging process) the mix is a failure. If the taste is good only after 2-3 weeks and goes down hill, it's not for me. If anyone believes a more rigorous mechanical/thermal intervention hastens and improves your mix, go for it.
Might like to read:
DIY Mythbusting • r/DIY_eJuice
Everything you wanted to know about steeping and then some. | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[go_player]

Hey all good to be here.
Id like to ask if anyone knows if i make a juice out of one single flavor (any flavor) is there a neccessity to steep it at all? Cause maybe steeping is just for multiple flavors or is for mixing into the rest of the compnents.... no idea.

Yes- even single flavor mixes need to steep. They might not need to steep quite as long as more complicated recipes (though for reasons you might not think, I think) but they do need to steep.

I've spent some time thinking about why recipes need to steep at all (it's a bit surprising that they do, or at least it was to me,) and about how steeping changes them. I've come to some conclusions, some I'm fairly sure of, and others a bit speculative. One thing I am fairly sure of is that steeping is, in almost all cases we care about, mostly a matter of physical processes (rather than chemical reactions.) A steeped juice, compared to an un-steeped juice, is a juice with higher entropy.

In other words, a steeped juice is a well-mixed juice. The thing is, for many flavors (and it is why this matters for some so much than for others that I am most interested in and least sure about, though I have some guesses) this requires mixing on a very fine scale. Precisely how fine is another question. Given the means of mixing available to most of us, and the potential to do harm to our juice through more aggressive methods of mixing, we rely on Brownian motion to truly steep them.

Now it might be the case that if your flavors start off well-mixed they taste better even when they are not well-mixed with your medium. I'm skeptical about how strong an effect this has, but not _very_ skeptical. I can think of reasons why this might be the case, but...

It's at least plausible that a single flavor might need less steeping than several together, but if it's a flavor that needs to steep it needs to steep. I'm not just theory-crafting here- try Cap VCV1 (not my favorite, but many people love it) as a standalone at say 6% aged for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, and 3 months, at once. I think you will find that each has its own character.

 

[Letitia]

The reason I do 15ml testers is so I have enough to taste over a 12 week time period. This has saved more than a few concentrates in my stash. It also helps me determine fade. I do not adjust my testers either.

 

[Ethan diy]

Man great knowledge....

 

[englishmick]

Yes- even single flavor mixes need to steep. They might not need to steep quite as long as more complicated recipes (though for reasons you might not think, I think) but they do need to steep.

I've spent some time thinking about why recipes need to steep at all (it's a bit surprising that they do, or at least it was to me,) and about how steeping changes them. I've come to some conclusions, some I'm fairly sure of, and others a bit speculative. One thing I am fairly sure of is that steeping is, in almost all cases we care about, mostly a matter of physical processes (rather than chemical reactions.) A steeped juice, compared to an un-steeped juice, is a juice with higher entropy.

In other words, a steeped juice is a well-mixed juice. The thing is, for many flavors (and it is why this matters for some so much than for others that I am most interested in and least sure about, though I have some guesses) this requires mixing on a very fine scale. Precisely how fine is another question. Given the means of mixing available to most of us, and the potential to do harm to our juice through more aggressive methods of mixing, we rely on Brownian motion to truly steep them.

Now it might be the case that if your flavors start off well-mixed they taste better even when they are not well-mixed with your medium. I'm skeptical about how strong an effect this has, but not _very_ skeptical. I can think of reasons why this might be the case, but...

It's at least plausible that a single flavor might need less steeping than several together, but if it's a flavor that needs to steep it needs to steep. I'm not just theory-crafting here- try Cap VCV1 (not my favorite, but many people love it) as a standalone at say 6% aged for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, and 3 months, at once. I think you will find that each has its own character.

Often wondered myself what steeping really is. There are a lot of theories out there, what you said makes a lot of sense. Specifically fine scale mixing rather than any chemical process.

What I found works best for me is mixing with a frother (paint mixer), plus time, which makes sense in terms of what you said above.