Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[dannyv45]

Hello to all and thank all that contributed. I have a couple of observations and a question or two.

I recall hearing bad things about PET bottles leaching chemicals into water if left in a car to get hot, so it would be my guess that it would not be good to accelerate this with ultrasonic stimulation.

I also read in this thread that you should not exceed 125 degrees, but my old mind recalls from another source(forgot that part) that 194 was the magic number. Why 125? Is that 80% of the boiling point of an ingredient?

I believe juice in the tank would be the best way to go, but if you had less than the minimum level required, what is the consensus on floating a thin glass bowl filled with juice?

Has anyone done a side by side comparison with and without vinegar or lemon juice? If so, please share.

This method makes experimenting so much easier, as I'm sure most of the vendors already know.

Thanks

As far as floating a glass dish glass bottles will do the same thing and solves your issue or concern about PET plastic leeching. Glass bottles are what is recommended the most.

As far as water temperture. I have no input for you on that but most heated UC's don't get anywhere near 194 degrees. I find that 125 works quite well.

As far as vinegar (For tobacco mixes) and lemon juice (For fruits, creams and candies) I noticed the difference with vinigar with most my tobacco mixes that faded but on a few other tobacco mixes (Mainly ry4's) it did not help. As far as lemon juice I have not noticed a difference but I'm just starting out with fruits, creams and coffees.

 

[funkyZero]

I've read that most people prefer a bath of about 125 degrees.
Depending on your machine, the water heats from the US process. However, it may not reach 125F. Without the heater running, mine reaches a maximum of about 150F degrees, but I have a pretty powerful lab type unit. I'm not certain how much heat the smaller jewelry cleaner types will put out without a heater option

 

[uitzetter]

I have read all three parts of these ultrasonic threads over the last couple of weeks. At first I thought it couldn't be true. A weeks worth of steeping in a half an hour of UC? However, you guys have changes my mind, so thanks!

However, I don't have a hundred bucks lying around right now, so I'm saving for the UC next.

I have a questions though if you don't mind... Before I ask them, you should know at the moment I give the juices a warm bath after mixing and let them steep in the cupboard for two weeks. Tomorrow the second week of this batch begins. I'm testing all my new juices on 5, 10, 15 and 20%. I tried the flavors on my Igo-S dripper and used dry buring to clean out flavors. I've used normal silica as well as the german silica (flavor much better by the way). Because I had some problems in tasting the bakery type flavors (see question 2), I tought it might had something to do with my recoiling capacities. So I've also tried in my Protank with stock heads and my own recoilled heads. No difference. Since I have no problem with the fruit-only flavors, I assume it has to be the steeping. So back to the UC now.... (Sorry, this seems some essential info for you to know to answer my questions...)

1. I don't see the need for steeping fruit-only's. Mixed with tabacco's or bakery types it's different I think. But since you got the UC, do you still steep fruit-only's or only combo's?

2. I am experimenting with my first bakery types from Capella. They all sound so lovely from the descriptions on ECF. However, after one day, they don't taste good. After a week only a bit better. Like they want to come out (on the strongest percentages), but they don't quite yet. So I think they might benefit from steeping. They are (all Capella's): Apple Pie, Lemon Meringue Pie, Vanilla Cupcake, Sugar Cookie and New York Cheesecake. Oh, and also TPA Bavarian Cream, because they were out of Capella's Vanilla Custard. However, all of these flavors, are not good on 5, 10, 15 or 20%. Not even after a week of steeping. I think they might need another week or two. How long do you guys steep these and do they bennefit from UC? I didn't have these problems with Raspberry (oh my god, I love that one), Strawberries and Cream (is good, but I think I will try sweet strawberry next time) and peaches and cream (also very good).

 

[michaelsil1]

The Ultrasonic Cleaner is also helping with my Extracts!

 

[dannyv45]

1. I don't see the need for steeping fruit-only's. Mixed with tabacco's or bakery types it's different I think. But since you got the UC, do you still steep fruit-only's or only combo's?

2. I am experimenting with my first bakery types from Capella. They all sound so lovely from the descriptions on ECF. However, after one day, they don't taste good. After a week only a bit better. Like they want to come out (on the strongest percentages), but they don't quite yet. So I think they might benefit from steeping. They are (all Capella's): Apple Pie, Lemon Meringue Pie, Vanilla Cupcake, Sugar Cookie and New York Cheesecake. Oh, and also TPA Bavarian Cream, because they were out of Capella's Vanilla Custard. However, all of these flavors, are not good on 5, 10, 15 or 20%. Not even after a week of steeping. I think they might need another week or two. How long do you guys steep these and do they bennefit from UC? I didn't have these problems with Raspberry (oh my god, I love that one), Strawberries and Cream (is good, but I think I will try sweet strawberry next time) and peaches and cream (also very good).

The answer to both those questions is yes UC steeping will help. I've only just started venturing into fruits and creams and one thing I've noticed is they take at least 2 days to mature. Tobaccos will benefit the most from a UC.

 

[uitzetter]

The answer to both those questions is yes UC steeping will help. I've only just started venturing into fruits and creams and one thing I've noticed is they take at least 2 days to mature. Tobaccos will benefit the most from a UC.

Thanks! I know, for fruits, I wouldn't bother, as they only take 1 or two days of normal steeping if any.

However, how long does steeping fruits mixed with creams / bakery stuff like pie and cookies take? I mean normal steeping vs UC. For tabacco's normal steeping is varying from 2 weeks to well over a month of natural steeping v.s. 3 - 5 hours of steeping in UC.

But how about the fruits mixed with creams / pies etc.
And how about pie / cookies alone, like capella apple pie, lemon meringue pie, new york cheese cake
And how about vanilla's and custard-types like Capella's vanilla custard and TPA bavarian cream alone?
And how about chocolates alone?

So normal steeping vs. these types of flavors?

I would really appreciate some indications

 

[dannyv45]

However, how long does steeping fruits mixed with creams / bakery stuff like pie and cookies take? I mean normal steeping vs UC. For tabacco's normal steeping is varying from 2 weeks to well over a month of natural steeping v.s. 3 - 5 hours of steeping in UC.

But how about the fruits mixed with creams / pies etc.
And how about pie / cookies alone, like capella apple pie, lemon meringue pie, new york cheese cake
And how about vanilla's and custard-types like Capella's vanilla custard and TPA bavarian cream alone?
And how about chocolates alone?

So normal steeping vs. these types of flavors?

I would really appreciate some indications

As I'm also new to the world of fruits and creams I am by no means an authority on this but I found
with my recent mixes it was usable after 24 hours but seemed to mature to it fullest after about 4 or 5 days. this was with coffees and creams and fruits and creams. This was just using the natural steeping method of just letting it sit and giving it a good shake once and a while. Using an ultrasonic cleaner it still took 2 - 3 days to fully develop and color up but was decently vapable right away,

 

[uitzetter]

As I'm also new to the world of fruits and creams I am by no means an authority on this but I found
with my recent mixes it was usable after 24 hours but seemed to mature to it fullest after about 4 or 5 days. this was with coffees and creams and fruits and creams. This was just using the natural steeping method of just letting it sit and giving it a good shake once and a while. Using an ultrasonic cleaner it still took 2 - 3 days to fully develop and color up but was decently vapable right away,

Thanks! If it still has to develop 2 - 3 days after UC usage, I think I just might let them mature naturally then... If there is a way to get them fully ready after UC, then it would be worth it to me, lol. How long did you let them sit in the UC? Did increasing the time make any difference?

And if any other ECF members have anything to contribute (esp. on the bakery types since I have no indication on that a.t.m.), I would very much like to hear them

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks! If it still has to develop 2 - 3 days after UC usage, I think I just might let them mature naturally then... If there is a way to get them fully ready after UC, then it would be worth it to me, lol. How long did you let them sit in the UC? Did increasing the time make any difference?

And if any other ECF members have anything to contribute (esp. on the bakery types since I have no indication on that a.t.m.), I would very much like to hear them

My very first batch of something other then tobacco that I ever made (coffee and deluce de leache) was steeped in the UC along with some tobacco test batches. I had noticed after a 2.5 hour steep the color changed to a pale almost clear amber. I vaped it and it was OK but the coffee was much more prodiminent.

The next day it darkened to a light almost yellowish amber and it seemed the coffee mellowed and melded better with the deluce but the deluce was the prodiminent flavor.

After 3 - 4 days the color darkened to a golden brownish amber and the flavors are perfectly melded.

So I mixed up a second batch and steeped naturally. Coffee was prodomenant for 2 - 3 days but was darkening. on the 4th day taste of the cream was arriving and color was darker at 5 - 6 days color and taste were perfect.

 

[uitzetter]

Thanks!

So for both the fruit and creams and coffee and creams it seems that after the UC it still needs a couple of days of natural steeping. For fruits and creams 2 - 3 days and coffee and creams 3 - 4 days.

If letting them naturally steep you get the same results after 5 - 6 days.

Because it still isn't vapable the next day, I think I will skip the UC for now and continue concentrating on finding the best flavors. It's an on-going mission, lol

Thanks again for clearing some non-tabacco steeping up for me and also a big thanks for the PM-ers on this topic also. They also found it was needed to let it steep a couple of days after using the UC for bakery types.

 

[we2rcool]

We're in; we're IN! We got our Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810 from Amazon earlier today...WOOHOO!

We're planning on using it for steeping tobacco/other 'flavors' and for making extracts (it's bound to have a positive effect on extracting time & strength, assuming 'over-steep-shaking' doesn't alter or degrade flavor). Yay!

'Hopefully I'll have the time to post our experiences frequently. This thread contains phenomenal information, and we want to add our thoughts & experiences to help make it even better.

GUCE ON!

 

[we2rcool]

Thanks!

So for both the fruit and creams and coffee and creams it seems that after the UC it still needs a couple of days of natural steeping. For fruits and creams 2 - 3 days and coffee and creams 3 - 4 days.

If letting them naturally steep you get the same results after 5 - 6 days.

Because it still isn't vapable the next day, I think I will skip the UC for now and continue concentrating on finding the best flavors. It's an on-going mission, lol

Thanks again for clearing some non-tabacco steeping up for me and also a big thanks for the PM-ers on this topic also. They also found it was needed to let it steep a couple of days after using the UC for bakery types.

Interesting! All of our 'ways of thinking' are as different as all of our taste-buddies When I read what Danny45 posted, I immediately thought "so coffee/cream and fruit/cream need more time in the UC to fully mature than does tobacco"...rather than "coffee/cream and fruit/cream need to steep 'naturally' for days after the same amount of time in the UC as the tobaccos". Of course, I wasn't privvy to your PMs...so I may have missed something integral.

'Got our first batch of HS tobaccos ready for the UC (along with a few coffee extract that haven't managed to 'do their thing' even after a couple of weeks). We're psyched!

 

[dannyv45]

I think you misunderstood. The point I was trying to get across was tobacco needs more time to steep then fruits, creams sweets etc.... But they all need extra time just sitting after the steep to rest usually 2 - 3 days.

 

[bobalex]

... But they all need extra time just sitting after the steep to rest usually 2 - 3 days.

Hey Danny - I think this might be one of those "Your Mileage May Vary" instances depending on the flavor you're making and PG/VG percentages. My 100% PG Desert Ship, Cowboy, 555, and DK Tobacco (all from EcigExpress) are "done" after 2-3 hours in the UC. A couple of days later after the UC hasn't brought out anything new flavor-wise.

But ...

All the flavors I don't vape (everything non-tobacco), or the more complex tobacco flavor combinations I don't make, all seem to have their own "steeping" or post UC requirements. If you're making a straightforward one-flavor batch of juice like I do ... the time the juice spends in the UC is all the time you need to get what you're looking for. The moment you add more variables to the equation ... the simple solution stops being simple.

In Other News ... I Googled around looking for instances of Ultrasonic Cleaner and e-liquid steeping and was surprised to see that GUCE-ing seems to be catching on all over the place!

 

[we2rcool]

I think you misunderstood. The point I was trying to get across was tobacco needs more time to steep then fruits, creams sweets etc.... But they all need extra time just sitting after the steep to rest usually 2 - 3 days.

I think you're right - I think I did misunderstand (and I also think I'm a bit confused). I don't understand why a juice that could achieve the 'steep effect' of 3-4 weeks of sitting on the shelf in 3-4 hours of UCing, would need extra time sitting/steeping out of the UC after it was UCd. If it needs more steeping, it seems a bit more time in the UC would take care of it.

Perhaps you can "explain me"?

 

[bobalex]

... I don't understand why a juice that could achieve the 'steep effect' of 3-4 weeks of sitting on the shelf in 3-4 hours of UCing, would need extra time sitting/steeping out of the UC after it was UCd.

Hey we2rcool - I think it all comes down to What You're Making. My 100% PG one-flavor tobacco juices are finished and ready to go after 2 - 3 hours in the UC. I haven't made any e-liquid that has more than these 3 components: Nic, PG, and 1% flavor.

I can't speak from experience about more complex recipes because I've never made any. But ... it appears that the more complicated juices DIY'ers are whipping up need a couple of days post UC. Still ... 3-4 weeks turning into 3-4 days makes having a UC mandatory if you're an impatient DIY'er. I guess I'm just lucky I make stuff that's perfecto in 2 - 3 hours.

 

[Ta2ooz]

I wonder if the DYI juice venders are monitoring this thread. I would'nt be surprised if I saw them starting to sell UC's.

found one on the ft site

 

[bobalex]

found one on the ft site

ft site? Wherezat?

 

[Ta2ooz]

fast tech, chinese company http://www.shareasale.com/r.cfm?u=5...e-mvp-5-in-1-voltage-adjustable-rechargeable-

 

[dannyv45]

If it needs more steeping, it seems a bit more time in the UC would take care of it.

Perhaps you can "explain me"?

The science behind this is beyond me. The fact is UC steeping works. It may not work completely with every mix but it shortens the time. Why a 2 flavor mix like a 555 is ready right after UC steeping and a mix with 4 or more flavors need a couple of days to rest I can't explain but never the less UC does make a mix ready in days instead of weeks. It would take a chemist to explain why these flavor molicules react the way they do to UC steeping. The time a mix needs to spend in a UC it determined by the experimentation you put into it and as bobalex so eloquently put it "your mileage may vary". I think a 5 hour steep should be more then enough for any mix regardless of complexity so If a mix needs a few days of rest afterwards I don't see it being that big of a deal.