still ashamed to vape in public

[zoiDman]

Ah - but e e cummings used capitals, or the lack of them, to great effect.

You just seem to capitalise when you feel like it. That's not the same thing at all.

Than you haven't yet Found the Pattern.

Maybe we should do a Thread about People who are Ashamed to Use Capital Letters in Public. Then it can go Off Topic and we can Talk about e-Cigarettes in Public.

 

[e-pipeman]

Fair enough . cummings is great, though. ygUduh - yeah! Don't see it so often these days.

 

[zoiDman]

The Long and the Short of it is,

If you want to vape in a College Classroom, Great. Go For it. I'm sure you will Educate a Few Students. But just Don't be Too Surprised when your college enacts a Ban that is Much More Restrictive than just Classroom use.

 

[e-pipeman]

The Long and the Short of it is,

If you want to vape in a College Classroom, Great. Go For it. I'm sure you will Educate a Few Students. But just Don't be Too Surprised when your college enacts a Ban that is Much More Restrictive than just Classroom use.

Fair enough. Back in the day when I was at Uni we could smoke in lectures and tutorials. I just think it's a shame that today's students can't benefit from a far less harmful alternative.

 

[zoiDman]

Fair enough. Back in the day when I was at Uni we could smoke in lectures and tutorials. I just think it's a shame that today's students can't benefit from a far less harmful alternative.

Like I said, It Isn't a Simple Issue of about the Students.

And I'm not sure how Not being able to use an e-Cigarette on Campus make it somehow a Less Harmful Alternative? Because Students are Not Allowed to Smoke on Campus Either.

 

[e-pipeman]

Like I said, It Isn't a Simple Issue of about the Students.

And I'm not sure how Not being able to use an e-Cigarette on Campus make it somehow a Less Harmful Alternative? Because Students are Not Allowed to Smoke on Campus Either.

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. I would very much like all students on campus to be able to use an e-cig if they are 18 yrs old. Or indeed older. If, when you say "college", you mean school then no - of course they shouldn't be vaping!

 

[zoiDman]

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. I would very much like all students on campus to be able to use an e-cig if they are 18 yrs old. Or indeed older. If, when you say "college", you mean school then no - of course they shouldn't be vaping!

This is how things were. Students used e-Cigarettes in Open Areas and it Wasn't a Big Deal. Campus Security would freak Out Occasionally, but only because they thought someone was Smoking on Campus. Once they would Realize that it was just an e-Cigarette, they Really Didn't Care.

The Administration didn't really care. It was all Outside. There weren't any Complaints.

But then Students started to wanted to Vape inside Buildings. And in Classrooms. That is when the Problems started. And that is why the Ban Policy was Started.

So what we went from was Student (and Faculty) could use e-Cigarette in Open Areas on Campus. To the Only Place that it was Allowed was in a Parking Lot.

And Why? Because some People couldn't wait to go Outside to take a Hit off a PV. Great.

---

I'll leave you with something I Posted a Long Time Ago. It is just One Instance of many. But it was a Very Cool thing to see Happen 1st Hand.

Not a Debate or an Opinion. Just something that Happened to me Related to Teaching and School.

-----

I teach at a college and Many of my students know that I am a former Smoker who now uses e-Cigarettes. I had a student two semesters ago ask if he could vape During class? I told him No.

He was polite but wanted to know what the reason was. I told him that our College has a No e-Cigarette use policy on campus Policy (Parking Lots and Cars is Fine) so it really wasn’t my decision to make.

I asked him if he could get through a Two Hour class without taking a hit of his e-Cigarette? He said “Yeah, But I think about it All the Time.” I asked him if he had his PV with him right now and he pulled out an eGo from his Shirt Pocket.

I told him that Maybe he wouldn’t think about it so much if he Didn’t carry his PV to class? I asked him try something. To leave his PV in his car when he came to my class and see if it helped. He kinda looked at me funny but said he would try it.

I never said anything else to him about it but for the next couple of weeks every time I would come into class I would look at him and Wink while I pointed at my Shirt Pocket. I think the rest of the class though I was Crazy.

On the day of the Mid-Term, the student said he wanted to talk with me after class. After all the exams were turned in he told me that he had been leaving his PV in his car when he was on campus. He said that he wasn’t constantly thinking about taking a Hit or Stealth Vaping much anymore. And that he could concentrate more not only on my class but All his classes. I told him that was Great because he was somewhat struggling with the course material in my class. (Some people just have a hard time with Math.)

He also said that he was starting to leave his PV in his car when he went to the Mall, to Movies and to Restaurants.

I didn’t talk much with him for the rest of the semester. When I did it was always about some Math Concepts.

About the last week of classes I was getting out of my car when I saw a Student running towards me waving their arms a shouting something. Trust me. A student Waving their Arms and Shouting is Seldom a Good Thing. But it was my student and he had this Big ....ty Grin on his face.

He told me that two days ago he got to campus and realized that he had left his PV at home. He said that he was going to drive home after his Chem class to get it. But after class he had gone to the Library to study Math and it was about a Hour into his studying until he realized that he still didn’t have his PV. He decided just to stay on campus and study Instead of going home for the PV. That this was the first time in a Year of vaping that he had Not Freaked Out or Rushed home to get his PV.

He went on to say that he didn’t Stealth Vape anymore and if he was busy doing something, that he could go for Hours before he “Needed” to take a Hit. He was so Animated and kept wanting to shake my hand.

He ended up getting a “C” in the class. But when I saw him the following semester he said he wanted a “B” but was OK with the Grade because he learned something Very Important. And it didn’t have Anything to do with Math.

---

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...50-kids-skipping-class-smoke.html#post5751420

 

[e-pipeman]

This is how things were. Students used e-Cigarettes in Open Areas and it Wasn't a Big Deal. Campus Security would freak Out Occasionally, but only because they thought someone was Smoking on Campus. Once they would Realize that it was just an e-Cigarette, they Really Didn't Care.

The Administration didn't really care. It was all Outside. There weren't any Complaints.

But then Students started to wanted to Vape inside Buildings. And in Classrooms. That is when the Problems started. And that is why the Ban Policy was Started.

So what we went from was Student (and Faculty) could use e-Cigarette in Open Areas on Campus. To the Only Place that it was Allowed was in a Parking Lot.

And Why? Because some People couldn't wait to go Outside to take a Hit off a PV. Great.

---

I'll leave you with something I Posted a Long Time Ago. It is just One Instance of many. But it was a Very Cool thing to see Happen 1st Hand.



http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...50-kids-skipping-class-smoke.html#post5751420

So you're saying that they could vape in open areas and then got demoted to the car park (an open area). I'm sure that their wholly reasonable desire to not be shoved out in the cold was ignored by whoever runs your college for reasons of finance. It's so easy to ignore a lawsuit if you're not prepared to stand up for your own people - by which I mean the students (all over 18).

 

[zoiDman]

So you're saying that they could vape in open areas and then got demoted to the car park (an open area). I'm sure that their wholly reasonable desire to not be shoved out in the cold was ignored by whoever runs your college for reasons of finance. It's so easy to ignore a lawsuit if you're not prepared to stand up for your own people - by which I mean the students (all over 18).

Stand Up for your Own People? Not sure I know what you mean by that.

And like I said. There were Many Factors that went into the Policy Decision.

Believe it or Not. The Addiction angle played a Huge Role in things. That and the Inability to know what was in an e-Liquid. The Stuff we Can't Talk About.

But you Also need to take it a Step Further. Because you are Just Considering Students. That Campus has Over 400 Instructors. And about 500 Non-Instructional Employees.

People think of a Campus as a School. I see it as a Business with Employees. And the Product we make are the Students. When you start to look at a Campus as a Business, other Factors start to become Relevant.

 

[e-pipeman]

Stand Up for your Own People? Not sure I know what you mean by that.

And like I said. There were Many Factors that went into the Policy Decision.

Believe it or Not. The Addiction angle played a Huge Role in things. That and the Inability to know what was in an e-Liquid. The Stuff we Can't Talk About.

But you Also need to take it a Step Further. Because you are Just Considering Students. That Campus has Over 400 Instructors. And about 500 Non-Instructional Employees.

People think of a Campus as a School. I see it as a Business with Employees. And the Product we make are the Students. When you start to look at a Campus as a Business, other Factors start to become Relevant.

When I look at a campus as a business, I see the students as customers. They are always right. They are not products (strangely capitalised or not).

In the real world where students aren't Soylent Green then perhaps everyone can vape? Wouldn't that be nice?

I say a good business puts the customer first. Let the customer vape (over 18s only - no tobacco on the premises).

 

[zoiDman]

When I look at a campus as a business, I see the students as customers. They are always right. They are not products (strangely capitalised or not).

In the real world where students aren't Soylent Green then perhaps everyone can vape? Wouldn't that be nice?

I say a good business puts the customer first. Let the customer vape (over 18s only - no tobacco on the premises).

Soylent Green? LOL... I think that is a little Over the Top.

Not sure how it is in England. But in the USA, the Students do Not Run the College System.

 

[e-pipeman]

Soylent Green? LOL... I think that is a little Over the Top.

Not sure how it is in England. But in the USA, the Students do Not Run the College System.

It's not really over the top when you describe the students as the product. The product should be education. The students are the customer/client. Give the client the product they have bought.

How old do they get to in college in the states? If it's really school and most of them are under 18 then I'm with you. But if they're 18+ then let them vape.

 

[zoiDman]

It's not really over the top when you describe the students as the product. The product should be education.

I think it depends if your Perspective is from a Students POV. Or from the POV of a Faculty Member.

 

[e-pipeman]

I think it depends if your Perspective is from a Students POV. Or from the POV of a Faculty Member.

I'm not sure what you mean. The students' point of view is very important. They are your customer. It's up to you to provide them with a good education. That's what the world needs.

Please check my spelling and punctuation if you are a faculty member. After all - every day is a school day.

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not sure what you mean. The students' point of view is very important. They are your customer. It's up to you to provide them with a good education. That's what the world needs.

Please check my spelling and punctuation if you are a faculty member. After all - every day is a school day.

No. It is My Job to run the Class. To present the Material and to Answer Questions. To Provide Testing and to Record the Grades that are Earned.

It is the Students Job to Get a Good Education.

No Instructor can Make a Student Learn who Doesn't Want To. Or to Help someone who is Unwilling to put in the Time and Effort Required to Pass a Class. Let alone, get a Good Grade.

---

I don't check Spelling. I Kant spell Wurth a Darm. I just do Numbers.

 

[e-pipeman]

No. It is My Job to run the Class. To present the Material and to Answer Questions. To Provide Testing and to Record the Grades that are Earned.

It is the Students Job to Get a Good Education.

No Instructor can Make a Student Learn who Doesn't Want To. Or to Help someone who is Unwilling to put in the Time and Effort Required to Pass a Class. Let alone, get a Good Grade.

Wow. OK - at school it IS the responsibility of the teacher to make sure that the child is educated. At University level the student must endeavour to make the most of the available tuition/lectures/facilities, because she/he is older and can do that.

How old are your students? If they're under 18 yrs then this is all - well - academic...

P.S. do you use your strange capitalisation with students, too?

 

[zoiDman]

Wow. OK - at school it IS the responsibility of the teacher to make sure that the child is educated. At University level the student must endeavour to make the most of the available tuition/lectures/facilities, because she/he is older and can do that.

How old are your students? If they're under 18 yrs then this is all - well - academic...

P.S. do you use your strange capitalisation with students, too?

I have Only had a Minor (under 18 years old) in one of my Classes a Few Times. And each time it was kinda Funny. They were some of the Most Dedicated, Hard Working and Driven Students I have ever had.

On the College/University level, there is a saying, 'Every Student has the Right to Fail".

If a Student doesn't want to Put in the Time, or do the Homework, or Ask Questions in Class, or even Come to Class for that matter, it never Bothered me.

 

[Docsgt68]

I've noticed as vaping has become more popular I don't get looked at like I'm going to set off a bomb, but I still get a lot of attention with a big 18650 mech. I will say the one positive to all the attention is it gets smokers interested in it. Or even renews their interest. I've met many people who tried the cigalikes, but gave it up again thinking it was all that was out there. And working in Healthcare with a solid knowledge base of what vaping acruelly does health wise is helpful to dissuade the bad rap they get. So I used to be, but I guess I just take the awkward feeling for the hopes of benefitting other people.

 

[PeterLi]

The product should be education. The students are the customer/client. Give the client the product they have bought.

There might be some miscommunication here due to differences between England and the US, but the "students are the customer" argument in the US is a lot of bunk.

For one, I do not have to get great grades in high school, do extra-curricular activities, maybe also do community service activities, then fill out a lengthy application, which includes an essay, and take standardized tests in order be accepted as a customer at a restaurant.

 

[zoiDman]

I think also there can be Confusion when Talking about Teaching when the Level the Instruction is on is Not Clear.

On the High School Level, students are Required to Attend School until they are 18 Years Old. At Least in the my state. Teaching has to be Done on a Different Approach. And sometime a Teacher has to "Beat Things into a Student Brain" to get them to Learn. Because the Many Students Don't Want to be there. But Have to.

But on the College Level, all this is Different. Students Don't have to be there if they Don't Want to. And Everyone is an Adult.

There isn't the Hand Holding that is seen on the HS Level. If a Student doesn't want to come to Class. OK. Or if a Student Doesn't want to Take Notes or Ask Questions, Once Again, OK.

I never Hesitated to Help a Student if they Wanted to Learn. And have stay After Class Too Many Times to Count Helping someone "Get It". But 99.5% of the Times, these are the Students who Want to Learn.