Stop saying you quit smoking!

[ChipCurtis]

So the Court really sees the use of the words quit or stop as not relevent here as the Court found that the objective intent was not to treat, rather it was to PROMOTE the use of nicotine.

So I think we are way past issues with this verbage.

It's about educating the public, too. Public perception can hurt or help us.

If this quit/switched verbage really doesn't matter in the courtroom based on what Sun said (and I agree with that), then, kristen: if you want to have an effect with public perception, don't mix legalese with public passion. Be consistent.

In other words, if public perception is what you want to effect, you have to be direct and passionate with them. The general public won't "get" this distinction between quitting and switching because it seems to be based on legal maneuvers (and people will see that) rather than what seems "the right thing to do" based on simple, succinct logic. The public wants to hear simple truths they can digest. Something this "hair-splitting" will be offputting to them.

 

[Karl the heretiK]

Yah, I stumbled over this one for a bit, too... especially since I still smoke a rollie every once in awhile... further confusing the issue...

I finally decided to tell people that I "went electronic"... it sounds modern and kinda sexy... in a 21st century way. I also tell people that PV's are the "wave of the future"...

 

[RoKeM]

I get where you’re going with this and see your point. The only issue with the whole thing is that we are fooling ourselves if we think we can put a spin on this and make any difference. The fact is that the big tobacco companies and the Government are loosing a boat load of money from the lower cigarette sales (Due to the number of switcher ) and neither of those two groups of people (and I use that term loosely) but neither of them are going to sit back and do nothing about it! We can not lay low and hope no one will notice. I’m not disagreeing with you at all, I am just saying that our efforts to fight would be best spent signing petitions and joining groups that will stand up for our right to use a legal product if we choose to! Education is the key and I still think your terminology of “Switching” is a better way to teach the unknowing what this is all about. I would just hate for us to loose our rights wail our heads are burred in the sand. “FYI, please forgive spelling and grammar errors, I don’t take criticism well”

 

[kristin]

If this quit/switched verbage really doesn't matter in the courtroom based on what Sun said (and I agree with that), then, kristen: if you want to have an effect with public perception, don't mix legalese with public passion. Be consistent.

In other words, if public perception is what you want to effect, you have to be direct and passionate with them. The general public won't "get" this distinction between quitting and switching because it seems to be based on legal maneuvers (and people will see that) rather than what seems "the right thing to do" based on simple, succinct logic. The public wants to hear simple truths they can digest. Something this "hair-splitting" will be offputting to them.

The court of public perception has a huge impact on how judges rule and legislators vote.

They are not separate at all.

SE vs. FDA is just a step - there is a long road ahead even if the judge rules in SE's favor.

We need the general public to see vaping as a good thing, so we have their support - at least lack of resistance - when we are trying to make/keep these legal.

If we continue to say "we quit smoking" the public only sees that as confirmation that the FDA's argument is right - we are using these as drug devices to quit smoking.

The anti-vaping groups - who influence and lobby politicians - read these forums and our comments. There is written proof of this.

Don't support their position and reinforce their misconceptions.

 

[taz3cat]

The court of public perception has a huge impact on how judges rule and legislators vote.

They are not separate at all.

SE vs. FDA is just a step - there is a long road ahead even if the judge rules in SE's favor.

We need the general public to see vaping as a good thing, so we have their support - at least lack of resistance - when we are trying to make/keep these legal.

If we continue to say "we quit smoking" the public only sees that as confirmation that the FDA's argument is right - we are using these as drug devices to quit smoking.

The anti-vaping groups - who influence and lobby politicians - read these forums and our comments. There is written proof of this.

Don't support their position and reinforce their misconceptions.

Kristen is correct how we present ourselves to the public at large is most important, the Judge ruled and the appeal is still in the process. We have to court public opinion now, that is the most important thing we can do besides sign the petition to to FDA and write our state officials about not banning the PV.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

The court of public perception has a huge impact on how judges rule and legislators vote.

They are not separate at all.

SE vs. FDA is just a step - there is a long road ahead even if the judge rules in SE's favor.

We need the general public to see vaping as a good thing, so we have their support - at least lack of resistance - when we are trying to make/keep these legal.

If we continue to say "we quit smoking" the public only sees that as confirmation that the FDA's argument is right - we are using these as drug devices to quit smoking.

The anti-vaping groups - who influence and lobby politicians - read these forums and our comments. There is written proof of this.

Don't support their position and reinforce their misconceptions.

If Judge Leon is upheld, then the FDA is forclosed from banning the e-cig--period. As I pointed out, the Court used the broader term of "tobacco products" and not "traditional tobacco products".

The e-cig promotes the use of nicotine, and therefore no therapeutic value can be had rendering it a drug delivery system. I did not say it, Judge Leon did.

I am not one for telling people to play on words. I want people to know we Quit cigarettes by using the e-cig.

The big issue missed here is that an NRT is for short term use in an effort to stop using nicotine---the e-cig is marketed for an undetermined use of time for recreational use.

So for me--I want the public preception to be one that we quit cigarettes.


Sun

 

[martha1014]

I dont' find a lot of people on the forum that say they switched to quit smoking. Most say that they stopped smoking cigarettes and started vaping. I know I probably say I quit cigarettes which is exactly what I did and most of the time I say I switched to ecgis. IMO our wording will not affect the approval or disapproval of ecigs.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I dont' find a lot of people on the forum that say they switched to quit smoking. Most say that they stopped smoking cigarettes and started vaping. I know I probably say I quit cigarettes which is exactly what I did and most of the time I say I switched to ecgis. IMO our wording will not affect the approval or disapproval of ecigs.

I agree Martha. The point being is that the real value of the e-cig is that they allow people to quit cigarettes. (Notice the thousands of "I Quit" smoking banners in Members signature lines here)---they Quit smoking. That is what takes the e-cig out of some little "Novelty item" and places it in its proper light right there with other harm reduction tobacco products like snus, etc.

It also abates the public preception that we just did not go "from the pot to the frying pan".


Sun

 

[kristin]

Even if they are made tobacco products, that is not where we want them to stay. Ideally, we'll be able to get "reduced harm products" and recreational nicotine recognized.

Again, public perception that these are just fancy, unregulated nicotrol inhalers will not help us to that end. I'm looking further down the road than the SE vs. FDA ruling.

By saying you switched, you still are conveying the fact that you are no longer smoking, but people will start to understand that this is not something that is temporary, just to quit smoking. Most people in the polls say they intend to keep vaping. We need to get the public to understand how these are being used - because they don't. Just ask how many people have been asked "How long are you going to use that thing?" They still think it's to quit smoking, that the ultimate goal of use is to quit nicotine and that it's not not a legal, recreational activity. To them, quitting smoking is synonomous to quitting nicotine.

I say I switched, because I have no intention of quitting my nicotine habit, now that I have a safer alternative to enjoy recreational use of nicotine.

 

[taz3cat]

If Judge Leon is upheld, then the FDA is forclosed from banning the e-cig--period. As I pointed out, the Court used the broader term of "tobacco products" and not "traditional tobacco products".

The e-cig promotes the use of nicotine, and therefore no therapeutic value can be had rendering it a drug delivery system. I did not say it, Judge Leon did.

I am not one for telling people to play on words. I want people to know we Quit cigarettes by using the e-cig.

The big issue missed here is that an NRT is for short term use in an effort to stop using nicotine---the e-cig is marketed for an undetermined use of time for recreational use.

So for me--I want the public preception to be one that we quit cigarettes.


Sun

Sun, that is what the judge said, but if we lose in the court of public opinion his ruling will not help us. We need public acceptance of the PV's as a harm reduction alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes.

Those of us who switched just got a wonderful bonus and we can tell people that. I actually switched because I enjoy the PV more than smoking cigarettes. Other smokers would probably be intersted in them if they were not required to quit smoking (peer pressure) and many of them would do just as I did. I did not buy my first one to quit smoking with, just to use when I could not smoke.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sun, that is what the judge said, but if we lose in the court of public opinion his ruling will not help us. We need public acceptance of the PV's as a harm reduction alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes.

Those of us who switched just got a wonderful bonus and we can tell people that. I actually switched because I enjoy the PV more than smoking cigarettes. Other smokers would probably be intersted in them if they were not required to quit smoking (peer pressure) and many of them would do just as I did. I did not buy my first one to quit smoking with, just to use when I could not smoke.

Taz--that to me is game playing with words. Most of us here used the e-cig to quit smoking. Somehow now the word is off limits? Not for me and many others. We quit the deadly cigarettes--pure and simple. I have been hearing and working on this "Court of Public Opinion" now for over a year and a half and I am not about to stop using the word quit.
Sun

 

[Belletrist]

i typically use the word transition--i did not, in fact, intend to quit, and while the differences between pvs and cigarettes is (of course!) important to me, i do see it as a change in my nicotine habit vs a 'quitting' of it. i did quit burning tobacco, but *shrugs*

 

[taz3cat]

Taz--that to me is game playing with words. Most of us here used the e-cig to quit smoking. Somehow now the word is off limits? Not for me and many others. We quit the deadly cigarettes--pure and simple. I have been hearing and working on this "Court of Public Opinion" now for over a year and a half and I am not about to stop using the word quit.
Sun

I am not playing with words, I did not quit smoking I switched to vaping. I never wanted to quit smoking, but my situation was such at the time about May of 2008 that I had to find a substitute and the PV was it. You may quit smoking cigarettes if you want the Anti will love you.

Every Anti organization has a public policy and even members that don't agree with all the policy know, that they need to follow that public policy to achieve their goals. Our goal is to make PV acceptable to the general public. be allowed to use them in public and get more smokers to make the switch. That is the only way we will stop this state by state death march on PV. We have to counter the FDA and it's insistence that they are smoking cessation devices (drug delivery system) and if they are for quitting smoking that is what they are.

The members of the AES that filed the friend of the Court Brief in the court case had it right and Judge Leon agreed. As a member of that group, I fully agreed with that brief then and still do. That was my true belief.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I am not playing with words, I did not quit smoking I switched to vaping. I never wanted to quit smoking, but my situation was such at the time about May of 2008 that I had to find a substitute and the PV was it. You may quit smoking cigarettes if you want the Anti will love you.

Every Anti organization has a public policy and even members that don't agree with all the policy know, that they need to follow that public policy to achieve their goals. Our goal is to make PV acceptable to the general public. be allowed to use them in public and get more smokers to make the switch. That is the only way we will stop this state by state death march on PV. We have to counter the FDA and it's insistence that they are smoking cessation devices (drug delivery system) and if they are for quitting smoking that is what they are.

The members of the AES that filed the friend of the Court Brief in the court case had it right and Judge Leon agreed. As a member of that group, I fully agreed with that brief then and still do. That was my true belief.

What was written and filed by Counsel for AES as a Amicus Brief really has nothing to do with the use of the word "quit" that came out of the clear blue, and now we are told should be struck from our vocabulary. If you contend that you did not quit analogs--all the more to you. But I, as well as many others did Quit analogs---if analogs where not harmful would you have quit them?---I mean stopped using them? (or can we not say that too!!)???

Do you see how silly this is? If you switched, it means you quit analogs for a healthy alternative--exactly what Judge Leon took from the SE marketing material. People using or not using the word quit is not going to save the day--that is my take on it.

Sun

 

[kristin]

Sun, look at my poll: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/71248-why-did-you-start-vaping.html

Over 67.74% of the respondents switched to "continue to have a "smoking-like" experience, but with reduced health risks." Only 7.68% wanted to use them as a step down program to quit their nicotine addiction ie. quit smoking. More people switched for the cost than to quit smoking. You're actually in the minority if you bought these to quit altogether.

In polls asking if people plan to quit vaping, the results usually show that over 50% plan to keep on vaping and the next largest group plans to quit "sometime in the future." Very few are using vaping to quit nicotine anytime soon.

We LIKE recreational nicotine.

Keep in mind, to the majority of non-smokers, smoking=nicotine and nicotine=bad. No matter what legal rulings there are, there is still the battle for the acceptance of recreational/theraputic nicotine use.

If you still use nicotine, a large part of the public still views you as smoking. We need to get "reduced harm tobacco product" to be accepted as a product and use, for exactly the reasons Taz stated.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sun, look at my poll: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/71248-why-did-you-start-vaping.html

Over 67.74% of the respondents switched to "continue to have a "smoking-like" experience, but with reduced health risks." Only 7.68% wanted to use them as a step down program to quit their nicotine addiction ie. quit smoking. More people switched for the cost than to quit smoking. You're actually in the minority if you bought these to quit altogether.

In polls asking if people plan to quit vaping, the results usually show that over 50% plan to keep on vaping and the next largest group plans to quit "sometime in the future." Very few are using vaping to quit nicotine anytime soon.

We LIKE recreational nicotine.

Keep in mind, to the majority of non-smokers, smoking=nicotine and nicotine=bad. No matter what legal rulings there are, there is still the battle for recreational/theraputic nicotine use.

Kristin--that is exactly what I am saying. We quit smoking analogs and now use a healther alternative. There is nothing wrong with saying one quit analogs---it is not going to make e-cigs become NRT's for the reasons already stated. That is why the e-cig deserves the merit it does and gives it substance--!!


Sun

 

[taz3cat]

Please everyone sign the petition ask the FDa to make the correction to their misinformation and classify them as tobacco products, that is the only way we can come out ahead in the situation at this time. I would like a harm reduction alternative classification and we could possible get that if people sign the petition asking for it. Then every one can get a wonderful bonus for switching to vaping.

The matter of heath was not the reason I switched, I just like vaping better and that is the bottom line. The reason I need a substitute is too complicated to explain on a forum and everyone would go to sleep reading it before they finished. Lets just say it was not my choice and smoking it self was not causing me any health problems.

 

[telsie]

Why is it wrong to say you quit smoking? That's exactly what I did and that's what I always tell people. I'm quite proud of it, in fact. Even with an e-cig, it was hell, but I freaking did it!

I think the real problem lies in the confusion over quitting cigarettes vs quitting nicotine. I see that, more than anything else, as the biggest hurdle in public perception. The e-cig might help many to stop smoking (even if it doesn't intend to), but whether or not anyone weens off nicotine, is completely up to the individual. As it should be.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Why is it wrong to say you quit smoking? That's exactly what I did and that's what I always tell people. I'm quite proud of it, in fact. Even with an e-cig, it was hell, but I freaking did it!

I think the real problem lies in the confusion over quitting cigarettes vs quitting nicotine. I see that, more than anything else, as the biggest hurdle in public perception. The e-cig might help many to stop smoking (even if it doesn't intend to), but whether or not anyone weens off nicotine, is completely up to the individual. As it should be.

Telsie--there is nothing wrong with saying you quit smoking. What I think they are looking for is adding to that--IE: I quite cigarettes to switch to a healther alternative. Whatever you say is fine though in my opinion. The main thing is you saved your life by getting rid of analogs!!

Sun

 

[DC2]

I don't think the general public equates quitting smoking with smoking cessation products. Qutting smoking is quitting smoking no matter how you do it, and it stands alone in my opinion.

I tell everyone I quit smoking, because I want as many people to start using electronic cigarettes as possible. I think numbers are what we need more than anything right now, and as fast as possible.

And when people ask me if I am going to quit vaping, I tell them no. Then I use it as an opportunity to compare nicotine to caffeine, and explain the difference between vapor and smoke, and how the former lacks all the things in the latter that would have killed me eventually.

Two birds, one stone.