Sub Ohming vs Building

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christylh8

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I have something I'd really love to tell everyone based on a recent experience. I've been having trouble with my Kylin Mini RTA leaking so went back to my SMOK Baby Beast tank with TFV8 coils until my Zeus Dual arrives.

I loaded up my favorite liquid into my SMOK tank and the flavor is SO muted. The basics are there but the highlight notes are just missing. It's nowhere near the amazing taste I get from my RTA.

I've only been vaping since October of 2017 (started with an EVOD pen) and I have to say if you've ever been scared of building on an RTA or RDA, please don't be. It's not as scary as I imagined it to be and the level of flavor you achieve is so much higher.

So if you've considered building, I encourage you to try. :)
 

christylh8

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Definitely the way to go. And as you state pretty easy to do. Some tanks are more leak prone but most of the leaking can be due to wicking. A short learning phase usually fixes the leak problem
I was really afraid that I wasn't technically talented enough to build, but I was so proud of myself when I learned. And the way flavors opened up was just tremendous. I can appreciate sub ohming as a step up from all in ones and pods though. I'm not saying it's bad, just that you may not realize what you are missing from the liquids.
 

Baditude

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Generally speaking, I do agree with you. RDA's and RTA's arguably provide you with the best flavor. I've used both (Kayfun Lite Plus RTA, Patriot RDA, and Velocity RDA).

However, I don't believe you can necessarily rule out ALL clearomizers tanks as being inferior to a rebuildable. I swear my original Uwell Crown tanks can nearly match or do match the flavor of my rebuildables.

I will freely admit that I've become an extremely lazy vaper. I don't like to change my wicks every 3 - 4 days when using a rebuildable. With my Crowns, I get 4 weeks with the same coil head and only need to refill the tank once or twice a day, without compromising flavor.

I'm very happy that you have found a happy place with your rebuildables. ;)
 

stols001

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Congrats, and I'm glad it is going well for you! I too was afraid to build, and with good reason, LOL. I have a fine motor tremor that can make things harder. But, I am so glad I tried, because (although my road to building was littered, liberally, with useless coils, terrible wicks, and finding the right equipment, I'm so glad I kept at it. I'm not the most proficient builder of all time but I'm so glad I kept at it. I really agree that often (I have a few drop in coil tanks I still love) the flavor from a rebuildable is so much better and it's so much less expensive, too. I LOVE knowing I can be self sufficient as a vaper as well. :)

Congrats on finding your happy building place and encouraging others. It really is fantastic. :)

Congrats!

Anna
 

christylh8

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Generally speaking, I do agree with you. RDA's and RTA's arguably provide you with the best flavor. I've used both (Kayfun Lite Plus RTA, Patriot RDA, and Velocity RDA).

However, I don't believe you can necessarily rule out ALL clearomizers tanks as being inferior to a rebuildable. I swear my original Uwell Crown tanks can nearly match or do match the flavor of my rebuildables.

I will freely admit that I've become an extremely lazy vaper. I don't like to change my wicks every 3 - 4 days when using a rebuildable. With my Crowns, I get 4 weeks with the same coil head and only need to refill the tank once or twice a day, without compromising flavor.

I'm very happy that you have found a happy place with your rebuildables. ;)
That's true, and I'm definitely not ruling them all out. I still want a Uwell Valyrian, I've heard those coils last forever. Also with the introduction of mesh coils into the vape world I think these dull coils I'm using now will go away completely.
 

christylh8

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Congrats, and I'm glad it is going well for you! I too was afraid to build, and with good reason, LOL. I have a fine motor tremor that can make things harder. But, I am so glad I tried, because (although my road to building was littered, liberally, with useless coils, terrible wicks, and finding the right equipment, I'm so glad I kept at it. I'm not the most proficient builder of all time but I'm so glad I kept at it. I really agree that often (I have a few drop in coil tanks I still love) the flavor from a rebuildable is so much better and it's so much less expensive, too. I LOVE knowing I can be self sufficient as a vaper as well. :)

Congrats on finding your happy building place and encouraging others. It really is fantastic. :)

Congrats!

Anna
And the money you save on coils is tremendous. I've only gone through a fraction of my cotton vs the many, many SMOK coils I had to buy because they tasted terrible after 3 days.
 

catilley1092

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@christylh8 congrats on your achievement!:thumbs:

I too was using prebuilts for the longest time, then discovered that even the Kanger single coil could easily be rebuilt time & time again. At first, my experience with DIY was hybrid (rebuilding OEM coils), then when I finally got a real tank (RTA) to build on, had the experience needed to move forward.:D

For the most part, I prefer to build my own. However, at the same time, cannot knock the flavor from my Vaporesso NRG & Cascade tanks. The good thing about these coils, while not rebuildable (by me), can reuse over & over by soaking in Everclear (Grain Alcohol Only) for 12 hours, rinse good with hot water while inserting a toothpick gently through each coil, followed by a 12 hour soak in hot water. This can be used on SMOK coils also, as some are compatible with Vaporesso & other tanks.

This brings the coils back to 90-95% of original performance, as long as not used to the point of no return, same with DIY coil building. One can burn off & rewick a DIY coil many times w/out all of the soaking, just a rinse after removing old wick & burning off with e-juice intact.

Good Luck moving forward, you're progressing!:)

Cat
 

Zaryk

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As a rule of thumb, I agree with rebuildables being more flavorful. I have some rebuildables that are poorly designed and do not offer better flavor than drop in coil tanks. I also noticed that it also depends on the flavor you use, some of them I use taste practically identical through rebuildables and drop in coil tanks.
 

christylh8

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@christylh8 congrats on your achievement!:thumbs:

I too was using prebuilts for the longest time, then discovered that even the Kanger single coil could easily be rebuilt time & time again. At first, my experience with DIY was hybrid (rebuilding OEM coils), then when I finally got a real tank (RTA) to build on, had the experience needed to move forward.:D

For the most part, I prefer to build my own. However, at the same time, cannot knock the flavor from my Vaporesso NRG & Cascade tanks. The good thing about these coils, while not rebuildable (by me), can reuse over & over by soaking in Everclear (Grain Alcohol Only) for 12 hours, rinse good with hot water while inserting a toothpick gently through each coil, followed by a 12 hour soak in hot water. This can be used on SMOK coils also, as some are compatible with Vaporesso & other tanks.

This brings the coils back to 90-95% of original performance, as long as not used to the point of no return, same with DIY coil building. One can burn off & rewick a DIY coil many times w/out all of the soaking, just a rinse after removing old wick & burning off with e-juice intact.

Good Luck moving forward, you're progressing!:)

Cat
I tried soaking my SMOK coils in vodka and then water, but after drying still had a burnt/odd taste I could never get past. Maybe it's because I wasn't using Everclear? :)
 
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madstabber

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I love my RTA, it gives me great flavor and vapor. Having said that I agree with baditude, my Uwell crown can just about match the flavor I get from my RTA. The coils last forever and it’s nice to have the ease of just swapping coils instead of having to rebuild. Once you get the wicking down, rebuilding is pretty easy so anyone thinking about trying an RTA should give it a try. Or just get a Uwell crown and continue to be lazy and scared to try new things. :vapor:
 

score69

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I've not tried a large number of prebuilt coil heads in my day. Was using the Kanger SSOC heads for many years, used the SMOK Baby Beast coils, Freemax Fireluke, and a few others.

I had always rebuilt my Kanger Protank/EVOD coil heads when I was vaping MTL, for some reason, just never got into rebuilding until I started vaping DL, and even then it was a while.

I was honestly shocked at the difference in vape quality, even vaping unflavored juice when I started building. There wasn't a single tank that I used the RBA instead of a pre-built coil that didn't shock me with the improvement in vape quality.

From that point on, it was all rebuildables for me. I have a bunch of Kanger, SMOK, and Freemax coils I may never use, along with the tanks. However, I will hang onto them for the FDA vape closet. I or someone I know may need them one of these days.

I think if a company could actually come out with a pre-built coil, that matched the vape quality of a good RTA, and was a quality long-lasting coil, they would really have a good share of the market for this type of product. I'm sure there are better ones than were available when I was buying drop-in coils, I just gave up on them after seeing the improvement in vape quality on rebuildables. Then when you factor in the cost savings, it's a no brainer if you are somebody who enjoys the hobby aspect of it and the task of building.

There will always be a market for disposable coil heads, I just won't do it any longer until I get to a point where I am unable to build my own for one reason or another. If I have to go back to them at some point, I will probably try to use the several hundreds of pre-built heads I already own if the tanks/seals are still viable at that point. I have to admit, I way over bought pre-made coil heads any time I found a tank that worked well and didn't leak on me. You would have thought I had learned my lesson, but now I buy backups and backups and backups of RTAs and RDAs instead, lol. The vape market just changes so quickly, I'm afraid what I like won't be available in a short amount of time. I've seen a lot of things have an extremely short production run, and that's it.
 

Raider87

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Yea, I can’t stand drop in coils anymore, especially when they cost so much.....just to end up with muted flavor lol.

I pretty much switched to using RDAs at home and use a few RTAs when I’m on the go or at work.

I’ve also completely switched to DIY juice, talk about saving money.
Once you learn the ropes and find some good recipes you like, there’s just no going back.
 

mimöschen

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I think DIY-juice is mandatory when you go the DTL route, because prices for "premium" liquids are just insane, and I don't see the point in paying double the money compared to smoking, for a product that's worth pennies.
Plus there are some amazing flavorings around, that cost only a fraction.
 

DeloresRose

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I recently started building, just because I think it’s a good skill set to have if you plan, as I do, to vape forever.

I do not enjoy it though, because I always have some broken thing to fix in my real life. Keeping up with a house, a yard, the pets, the pool, the cars, and all the other grown up things does not leave me a lot of time to tinker.

I make time to diy, but I don’t mind paying for the convenience of drop ins - plus I’m finding the newer ones are lasting quite a while now. And I can tweak my juice so I get very good flavors from the tanks I’m running.

I mean I agree, in general, you get better flavor with RBAs, but it’s not for everyone, and with the right tank and coils, you’re not missing much.
 

Mysteron

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I started off with drop in coil tanks having had two come with mods I bought. One was an ELeaf iJust 2, the other a Melo 3. I then tried a Nautilus, obviously that's an MTL clearo so different style. I always found the flavour dropped down really fast after a day or two of use and never had good results trying to wash and re-use the coils. Got so bad bad for me I even dropped of vape use for ages as I got bored with the lack of flavour plus I was getting through coils at an alarming rate.

Changed over then to an RTA (Ammit 25) and an RDTA (DeJaVu) and WOW what a difference. I don't get anything even close to the flavour from the sub-ohm tanks, except maybe briefly, when I insert a new coil, even then it's muted compared to the RTA / RDTA. I still keep the tanks (for now anyway) but not sure I'll buy any more coils for them, might even end up selling them or giving them away. The Nautilus I keep for when I'm in the mood, which is rare plus I find the Nautilus has to be gently nursed with the break in of a new coil to save burning it. Now eagerly awaiting 2 new RDAs, one bottom airflow (a Wotofo Lush Plus) and a side flow (Digiflavour Drop).

Interestingly I did wonder if some of my early exploits with clearomizers may have been responsible for poor results. Recently I had some discussion on a Thai vape forum about trying to establish a rough voltage at which self built coils on an RDA / RTS would be almost likely to give a burnt coil / dry hit. For me, the 'equation' works out at around 5v, to be one the safe side. I might not always want to vape drawing so many volts, just gives a good starting point as an upper limit guide. I normally start it off at around 2.5v and slowly work up, the wattage of course will vary according to the coil resistance. The equation doesn't work well with clearo coils though where the manufacturer, in my limited experience, stamps the acceptable wattage range on the coil along with the resistance. At least with the voltage guide I can see at a glance if I'm starting the coil off too high or even way too low, zero flavour on anything for me at around 2v.

So I tried digging out the Melo 3 and stuck on a brand new 0.5ohm coil. Primed it well with several drops on the airflow holes and also onto the tray at the top of the coil. Also did quite a few draws on it with the mod switched off to draw juice into the coil (some tips I picked up when I had problems with the Nautilus burning out coils), let it sit for 10 minutes, few more unpowered draws then fired up the mod and worked slowly up from around 20w to bed the coil in. Gradually took it up to 50w (about the limit for me as the juice gets way to sweet and the vape too hot for my liking) and backed off, settling between 30-40w. Pretty damn good :) Not sure how long that coil will last before the flavour drops off though, we'll see. So the Melo is back in rotation, nice and small with a Pico iStick too. I'm aware that the Melo 3, for a clearo, is considered by some to be a very good tank and can cope with the thicker juices too. So I guess a lot can be down to pilot error too.
 
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madstabber

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I started off with drop in coil tanks having had two come with mods I bought. One was an ELeaf iJust 2, the other a Melo 3. I then tried a Nautilus, obviously that's an MTL clearo so different style. I always found the flavour dropped down really fast after a day or two of use and never had good results trying to wash and re-use the coils. Got so bad bad for me I even dropped of vape use for ages as I got bored with the lack of flavour plus I was getting through coils at an alarming rate.

Changed over then to an RTA (Ammit 25) and an RDTA (DeJaVu) and WOW what a difference. I don't get anything even close to the flavour from the sub-ohm tanks, except maybe briefly, when I insert a new coil, even then it's muted compared to the RTA / RDTA. I still keep the tanks (for now anyway) but not sure I'll buy any more coils for them, might even end up selling them or giving them away. The Nautilus I keep for when I'm in the mood, which is rare plus I find the Nautilus has to be gently nursed with the break in of a new coil to save burning it. Now eagerly awaiting 2 new RDAs, one bottom airflow (a Wotofo Lush Plus) and a side flow (Digiflavour Drop).

Interestingly I did wonder if some of my early exploits with clearomizers may have been responsible for poor results. Recently I had some discussion on a Thai vape forum about trying to establish a rough voltage at which self built coils on an RDA / RTS would be almost likely to give a burnt coil / dry hit. For me, the 'equation' works out at around 5v, to be one the safe side. I might not always want to vape drawing so many volts, just gives a good starting point as an upper limit guide. I normally start it off at around 2.5v and slowly work up, the wattage of course will vary according to the coil resistance. The equation doesn't work well with clearo coils though where the manufacturer, in my limited experience, stamps the acceptable wattage range on the coil along with the resistance. At least with the voltage guide I can see at a glance if I'm starting the coil off too high or even way too low, zero flavour on anything for me at around 2v.

So I tried digging out the Melo 3 and stuck on a brand new 0.5ohm coil. Primed it well with several drops on the airflow holes and also onto the tray at the top of the coil. Also did quite a few draws on it with the mod switched off to draw juice into the coil (some tips I picked up when I had problems with the Nautilus burning out coils), let it sit for 10 minutes, few more unpowered draws then fired up the mod and worked slowly up from around 20w to bed the coil in. Gradually took it up to 50w (about the limit for me as the juice gets way to sweet and the vape too hot for my liking) and backed off, settling between 30-40w. Pretty damn good :) Not sure how long that coil will last before the flavour drops off though, we'll see. So the Melo is back in rotation, nice and small with a Pico iStick too. I'm aware that the Melo 3, for a clearo, is considered by some to be a very good tank and can cope with the thicker juices too. So I guess a lot can be down to pilot error too.
I never heard of the Volt equation you spoke of. It is interesting though I never even thought about the volt readout on my mods, never paid any attention to it. I’m currently running two mods and one is running at 3.12 volts and the other is running at 2.92 volts. So it looks like your equation works for me as well. Although 5volts seems high in my early experiments checking volts. I don’t think I’d go over 4 volts but that just may be due to my current builds. Anyway thanks for bringing this to my attention, I never even considered volts. Well haven’t considered since I got my first watt mod and moved away from the VV only mod many many moons ago
 
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