FDA Submission to the FDA from a Native American - That person is so right!

[Anjaffm]

A Native American comments on FDA deeming regulations on tobacco & e-cigs. For me it sounds as a CRY of the Whole (deprived of land&rights and long-lied-to) Nation!
.......................

As of July 7th, 2014, I celebrated 5 years without having touched a tobacco, aka analog cigarette during the entire 5-year span. It has been the most amazing gift I have given my body, which is riddled with autoimmune diseases that are part and parcel of having been born within the top 3 ethnic groups who suffer the widest spread genetic outbreak of autoimmune diseases. I am Native American. Nearly all the generation prior to mine live with problems associated with having autoimmune diseases while others, including my mom, are no longer alive because these autoimmune diseases took her life far too soon and became far too painful for her to continue the fight so she stopped fighting and let the autoimmune diseases take her. However, those among my own generations and even some who are still surviving autoimmune diseases sufferers still alive from the previous generation are taking steps to making life easier and to stop adding more that is dangerous to their lives. They are leaving tobacco/analog cigarettes behind in favor of Electronic Cigarettes!

In 5+ years, with exception of scar tissue lesions on my lungs from multiple bouts of pneumonia from childhood, my lungs are as healthy as any NON-SMOKER! The same is coming true in the lungs of others within my family across the surviving generations who are laying down tobacco/analog cigarettes that for well over a century have been told they were healthy when they were not and by the time the government got off it's ..... TO TELL THE TRUTH FOR A CHANGE - FAR TOO MANY WERE FAR TOO ADDICTED TO QUIT!

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME DOWN HERE IN YOUR SELF-RIGEOUS TONE TO TELL US WHAT WE CAN OR CANNOT DO TO OUR BODIES! YOU LOST THAT RIGHT WHEN YOU REFUSED TO ALLOW US MEDICAL CARE; YOU LOST THAT RIGHT WHEN YOU LIED ABOUT TOBACCO/ANALOG CIGARETTES; YOU LOST THAT RIGHT WHEN YOU TURNED YOUR BACK ON "WE THE PEOPLE!"

NOW, IT IS OUR TIME AND WE WILL MAKE THE CHOICES FOR OUR BODIES - NOT BIG PHARMA OR BIG TOBACCO OR THESE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP WHORES DEMANDING PAYMENT FOR THE 'BUTCHER BILL' THAT THESE TWO LARGE GROUPS HAVE DAMNED TO DEATH WHILE LINING THE POCKETS OF THE CONGRESS MEMBERS WHO WHERE VOTED INTO OFFICE TO LOOK AFTER US, NOT THEMSELVES!
THEY DIDN'T CARE BEFORE - THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO CARE NOW!

WE WILL HANDLE OUR OWN E-CIGARETTE BUSINESS AND FOR ME, IF THAT MEANS ORDERING MY LIQUIDS OVER THE BLACK MARKET THEN SO BE IT B/C I REFUSE TO LET CONGRESS MAKE A MINT OFF SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT THERE WAS MONEY TO BE MADE! CONGRESS ALREADY STOLE NATIVE AMERICAN'S MEDICATION KNOWN AS .........; WHY WOULD ANYONE TRUST YOU WITH THE E-CIGARETTE INDUSTRY? (WE DON'T TRUST YOU WITH IT!)

.................
source: posting on "We are CASAA" Facebook group

 

[GaryInTexas]

One of the best comments I've read. It hits a perfect tone for me.

 

[Anjaffm]

One of the best comments I've read. It hits a perfect tone for me.

yeah, me too. That person is saying what many of us are feeling. And saying it very well indeed.

 

[sonicdsl]

Great comment, mostly. A shame they hit caps lock and resorted to name calling, but I certainly do agree with and admire the passion!

 

[dragonpuff]

Great comment, mostly. A shame they hit caps lock and resorted to name calling, but I certainly do agree with and admire the passion!

Yes unfortunately, no matter how good your points are, when you get emotional people will often take you less seriously

 

[Kent C]

Yes unfortunately, no matter how good your points are, when you get emotional people will often take you less seriously

There are many contrary examples of that. But if I'd give some of them, some people would get emotional, even though they're true.



I know you said 'often'.

 

[dragonpuff]

I know you said 'often'.

Yes indeed, you found my escape clause

 

[Anjaffm]

I say that this person is saying exactly the right thing. Word for word. He / she is saying what we all feel.

You can be polite, supply facts, supply studies, ask for dialogue, supply more facts, ask for consultation, write nice letters, supply more studies, be polite and rational, - and you know what that gets you? At best they ignore you and continue their lies and nonsense. And at worst they write you some pre-written crap about being oh-so-concerned about the public welfare and the oh-so-horrible dangers of e-cigs. (Remember, you just sent them various studies that prove the opposite. Which they - in their infinite corruption - conveniently ignored).

Been there. Done that. Got no T-Shirt.

Then you get angry. And you get loud. Because all your politeness, all the information provided, brought you as much respect and regard as if you had been a polite little cockroach.

Been there and done that. And if the European vapers had not been screaming at the top of their lungs, then all of the EU would have got medical regulation for all e-cigs in the Tobacco Products Directive that the corruptocracy of the EU passed in February 2014. (Thank you, Rolygate for the wonderful and very fitting word "corruptocracy"). They were trying to step on us as if we were so many cockroaches. But those "cockroaches" got so loud that they could not be simply ignored.

And please remember that the writer of that FDA comment is a Native American.
A Native American, ok? His / her people knew about - and suffered from - the effects of government greed and corruption long before any of us here even existed. That writer has lived in the reality of government greed and corruption all his / her life. While most of us were still blithely believing in the fairy tale of "democracy".

What is that writer supposed to say?
"Dear government, you have taken our land, you have destroyed our people, you do not care about us at all - but now, I place all my trust in you to do the right thing and to preserve e-cigs for the health of the people?" - BS!

That writer has put it very well indeed.

 

[dragonpuff]

In my personal experience, if I get angry during an argument I am often shut down almost immediately with something to the tune of "now you're just being crazy," implying that I'm no longer rational because I happen to be upset (maybe because I'm a girl?). I learned from many years of having to deal with that that if I want to win an argument I need to be factual and give a point-by-point rebuttal, and above all remain calm, lest I be immediately discredited for being "emotional". I don't think it's right, but it is what it is. And I think that, especially for a marginalized group, it is often best to play by the social rules if you want to be heard.

However, remaining calm and being polite are far from being the same thing. I agree with the native's portrayal of his situation, and I think it would have been spot-on perfect if he simply took his fingers off the capslock. Likewise, CASAA's 53-page rebuttal was a superb mix of on-point arguing and cutthroat remarks. There was no doubt at any point in that paper that they were fed up, yet they maintained professionalism all the way through. I feel that is the best approach, to mix cohesive arguing with a strong stance that shows you know you're right and have no intention of backing down. That way they can't pull off the "you're just getting defensive of your addiction!" garbage quite as easily.

 

[Anjaffm]

if I get angry during an argument

and above all remain calm

For personal "exchanges" with opponents:

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary. Not "hot fury" but "cold fury", with the emphasis on "cold". Take a deep breath, breathe out all emotion - it only hinders you - and then go for the jugular. Calm, collected - and as cold as ice. Match your opponent point for point. A cold, sarcastic smile - or sneer - at their particularly stupid "arguments" is also useful. I personally stopped "defending myself" or letting myself be put on the defensive at all, shortly before the end of a horrible marriage. Over 20 years ago. I learned such fighting stills to save my sanity. If you have an argument between two people, the colder one usually wins.

Of course, this goes for arguments among equals. Where you can win on the strength of your argument and on the strength of your fighting skills.

When being treated like an annoying cockroach - repeatedly - by politicians, "public health", those who allegedly "work for you" (haha), these fighting skills do not work. You see, you are not on an equal footing. Those people sit on their behinds, feeding on your tax money - and on bribes from the industry - and letting you know precisely that they consider you a piece of crap. You see, it is not in the interest of those people to see your point of view, to recognize the truth. Many of them get paid NOT TO see the truth but to spread their evil lies in order to fill their own pocketbooks. What does it hurt to let those people know your contempt? To let the liars know that you - and others - see right through them? To tell them clearly that you know that they are lying? And to spread your knowledge everywhere you can? So others see right through them as well, instead of believing their lies?

There are different kinds of arguments. With different kinds of opponents.

And a Native American has no reason whatsoever to write to the government nicely. What do you think that a nice, polite letter asking the wonderful government to please consider, from a Native American, would do? You think that somebody would say "Oh, what a nice Native American. Yes, let us not de-facto ban e-cigs, let us consider Native Americans in a more positive light!" - Uhm. Dream on.

That person has done right, to my mind.

edit made:
Over 20 years ago Not over 30 years ago. I am not that old

 

[catlady60]

Yes unfortunately, no matter how good your points are, when you get emotional people will often take you less seriously

If you get emotional, people will take you less seriously--unless the emotions are in line with their predetermined agenda. Do you hear me, FDA?

 

[dragonpuff]

For personal "exchanges" with opponents:

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary. Not "hot fury" but "cold fury", with the emphasis on "cold". Take a deep breath, breathe out all emotion - it only hinders you - and then go for the jugular. Calm, collected - and as cold as ice. Match your opponent point for point. A cold, sarcastic smile - or sneer - at their particularly stupid "arguments" is also useful. I personally stopped "defending myself" or letting myself be put on the defensive at all, shortly before the end of a horrible marriage. Over 20 years ago. I learned such fighting stills to save my sanity. If you have an argument between two people, the colder one usually wins.

Of course, this goes for arguments among equals. Where you can win on the strength of your argument and on the strength of your fighting skills.

When being treated like an annoying cockroach - repeatedly - by politicians, "public health", those who allegedly "work for you" (haha), these fighting skills do not work. You see, you are not on an equal footing. Those people sit on their behinds, feeding on your tax money - and on bribes from the industry - and letting you know precisely that they consider you a piece of crap. You see, it is not in the interest of those people to see your point of view, to recognize the truth. Many of them get paid NOT TO see the truth but to spread their evil lies in order to fill their own pocketbooks. What does it hurt to let those people know your contempt? To let the liars know that you - and others - see right through them? To tell them clearly that you know that they are lying? And to spread your knowledge everywhere you can? So others see right through them as well, instead of believing their lies?

There are different kinds of arguments. With different kinds of opponents.

That was AWESOME!

I feel like we're speaking past each other in a way because it looks like you've illustrated my point perfectly. A cold, calculated rage is more effective than a hot, blinding one under the majority of circumstances. It is better to set sights on your target than to go in blindly swinging.

I agree with everything the native says, I simply feel that if he would have worded it in a more calculated way then it would have been more likely to have an impact. The only use for blindly swinging is if you really believe your words aren't going to have any impact anyhow, in which case it only serves for you to vent.

And a Native American has no reason whatsoever to write to the government nicely. What do you think that a nice, polite letter asking the wonderful government to please consider, from a Native American, would do? You think that somebody would say "Oh, what a nice Native American. Yes, let us not de-facto ban e-cigs, let us consider Native Americans in a more positive light!" - Uhm. Dream on.

That person has done right, to my mind.

I never said the letter should be "polite" nor "asking." Demands would suffice in this situation (I have made several myself), as would cutthroat jabs, but his throwing in blind rage at the end is, in some instances (depending on exactly who's reading it), not helpful to his case.

The natives here certainly have plenty of sound reason to be p..... off. I grew up near two reservations, and I still can't imagine how anyone can drive through them and not feel a twinge of sadness and rage at seeing all the broken down houses and trailers, one after another, and know that these people, who have more of a right to their land than anyone else, have been forced into such poverty. And then to see the local government try to illegally siphon taxes out of them for the few successful businesses they have, and it's enough to make my blood boil... so please understand that I am plenty sympathetic to their situation.

Yet, like I said, I do feel his words would have had a more profound impact to the bureaucratic nimwits reading them if he had simply turned off the capslock. That is partly because they don't care, they only want to know how his statement might impact them. As I said earlier, it is much easier to dismiss someone's words when they are full of anger, but much harder when those words are pinpointed and calculated. This is especially true when the listener doesn't care about how the person feels, as is the case here.

 

[KaraDC]

You can be polite, supply facts, supply studies, ask for dialogue, supply more facts, ask for consultation, write nice letters, supply more studies, be polite and rational, - and you know what that gets you? At best they ignore you and continue their lies and nonsense. And at worst they write you some pre-written crap about being oh-so-concerned about the public welfare and the oh-so-horrible dangers of e-cigs. (Remember, you just sent them various studies that prove the opposite. Which they - in their infinite corruption - conveniently ignored).

Been there. Done that. Got no T-Shirt.

What is really frustrating is when they say it to your face!

Or the one I REALLY love in congressional offices is 'are you from my district' (ie, 'can you vote for my opponent')? I have to bite my tongue from saying 'no, I live in DC, I do not have representation here but all of you get to decide our laws'.

]And please remember that the writer of that FDA comment is a Native American.
A Native American, ok? His / her people knew about - and suffered from - the effects of government greed and corruption long before any of us here even existed. That writer has lived in the reality of government greed and corruption all his / her life. While most of us were still blithely believing in the fairy tale of "democracy".

Yeah, they have had PLENTY of broken promises from the feds. Many even treaties which, according to our constitution, should be binding. All their experience says not to trust the US government. If there is a murder or such on their reservations it not even treated as taking place in a sovereign country but US law enforcement 'investigates' it. Which yields cases like Leonard Peltier.

 

[GaryInTexas]

Polite conversation and coherent responses are good. Noting that the population is seeking ropes and strong trees is also effective. Both can be effective to those wishing to enslave us.

 

[AndriaD]

Yes unfortunately, no matter how good your points are, when you get emotional people will often take you less seriously

Which is why I mostly stayed off the caps lock key, except for isolated words here and there -- I slapped them around good, but I did it calmly. Calm anger is a lot scarier, IMO.

Andria