Sweetening E-Liquid

[wesson]

...TFA stands for The Flavor Apprentice, a food-grade commercial flavoring company out of California and is arguably the most popular one for vapers, along with Capella, FlavourArt, Flavor West and several others...After a time, you may want to start experimenting with mixing your own liquids...Gary

Thanks Gary. Yup I think that I may be heading that way, preparing my own juices. By sweetening those that need it, to suit my palate, adding EM, if I feel flavours need to be toned down etc, I'm beginning to experiment in "the shallow end" of the pool I will probably purchase some common flavours to "boost" my vendor prepared e-liquids. Eventually, and with the assistance and advise from the fine folks on this forum, I'll start making my own from scratch.

^^^^ from a blog. Not sure what "safe amounts" are of sucralose but I don't ever touch the stuff, nor aspartame or acesulfame K

That's sort of why I am looking for more natural alternatives, is any sweetener particularly better/worse for vaping? I'm trying to keep sweetener low...but I do like sweetness..

I think that I may have read similar warning or concerns in the past. That's one of the reasons why when I purchased the liquid sucralose, I also purchased a small bag of Stevia powder (crystals) - for comparison. For that reason I had asked about mixing these with PG; what ratio of powder to PG. I couldn't find an answer, so I'll probably start with a few grams per 10ml of PG and keep adding till the solution is saturated and then use this baseline for all future mixes. I may use the same ratio as I used for my EM solution 1/4 tsp. (or grams equivalent) EM to 10ml PG. BTW, I've been purchasing these additives from a Canadian supplier - Fusion Flavours.

For me, the two greatest dissatisfies in prepared e-liquids, after flavour and throat hit, are sweetness, or lack thereof, and "dryness." I like sweeter and wetter juices. As I work my way through the forum I discover so many great tips and techniques. For example I learned that to make vapor more "wet," you can add a few drops of .9% saline solution. I haven't added any of this to my "dry" e-liquids yet, to experiment, but I will soon.

Peter

 

[GaryR]

Peter,
One more stevia follow-up. I've reviewed several stevia liquid manufacturer's ingredient lists, and have observed the following:

1. Stevia liquids use either a water+grain alcohol base, or a vegetable glycerine (VG)+alcohol base, or VG+water base (alcohol-free versions).
2. Liquids including grain alcohol use between 10% and 20% alcohol (I assume by volume), and appear to have higher concentrations of stevia extract. That suggests that alcohol improves solubility.
3. I have yet to find a commercial stevia liquid that uses a PG base, suggesting that stevia may not be very soluble in PG, if at all.
4. Have yet to find technical documents that show solubility of stevia in various liquid bases other than water, and all say it is highly soluable in water.

One might therefore conclude:
1. To achieve a highly concentrated stevia mixing ingredient for e-liquids, one would need to experiment with some combinations of water and/or water+alcohol to determine saturation points.
2. For crystals in water only, one vendor recommends 1-to-9 stevia/water ratio, for example 1 teaspoon stevia extract in 3 tablespoons of water.
3. After determing saturation, the stevia base could be mixed with VG to provide a mixing ingredient, or used stand-alone if not too concentrated.
4. Obviously, the VG and/or water (perhaps with alcohol too) will affect your PG/VG ratio.
5. Using too much of the water-based stevia could make the juice too thin, resulting in juice leaks from the vaporizer. For people using high-VG e-liquids, that shouldn't be a problem.

I'm also finding that the potency of stevia crystals, extracts, and liquids vary quite widely, so that one would need to stick with one vendor to provide mixing consistency. I perfer commercial flavoring vendors rather than e-cig shops for consistency and reliability.

Thanks for starting this topic, as I had been putting this research off for a while and you provided the initiative!

Gary

 

[wesson]

Gary, great info, lots of research. Thank you.

Peter

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Peter I use Stevia liquid 400mg/ml. With water, 20% grain alcohol and VG in it. Works very well for me as a sweetener. I cannot tolerate artificial sweetners including sucralose and whatever is used in the vast majority of commercial ejuices. Threw out about $50 of them before I figured out what was going on since none of them list their sweetners. I got my stevia at a GNC store. 2 OZ for under $10, should last me about 6 months.
I have been using the Stevia as a sweetener in disposable Kanger T4 808D-1 cartomizers. They seem to last about 6-8 weeks not bad for a $2.50 carto. I flush Them out with warm water using hypodermic after about 6 fillings. If you do not flush them yes they last about 2 weeks. Still cheaper than analogs though.

Edit. I am using a 50/50 base mix for my juice.

 

[yardbyrd]

There is a pronounced pop and YardByrd suddenly appears, in finest "Defender" form seated on a shining golden perch! A platinum "YB" medallion materializes around his neck and starts to glow violet. You hear a deep, smooth, male, Latin, voice translating all but his greeting and farewell:

CAW! "Salutations from across the Realms those new to Stevia and it's DIY applications too! I researched here by simply searching the entire forum for Stevia and you will find several different threads about it, its various forms, and its use in DIY e-liquids. After researching here, and several other trusted sights, and chating on-line with an e-liquid vendor, and two DIYer's I trust, and doing a long Google search on the various types, I ordered Organic Stevia Glycerite. I checked my e-mail, a few minutes ago, and expect it to arrive today. Here is exactly what I purchased (2oz) and where:

Stevia Glycerite by NOW

In my search for good information I have found that this particular version of Stevia is organic and contains only Stevia and VG. It also seems that it is extremely sweet! Most recommendations I've found say to start in the .3-.5 of 1% range when mixing! I will probably do some mixing, especially if this arrives today, and will report back later (I don't know how much later though ) on my own experiences with it. I've been wanting to tackle mixing some pomegranate but have been waiting for this sweetener to attempt it with."

I hope my input has helped anyone in any way. I also will let you know how it goes with this particular version of it. *pax* " CAW!

There is another loud pop and YardByrd, and his attractive perch, vanish.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Let us know how the Stevia works out for ya.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I just hate taste of stevia. It is not neutral sweetener, it has nasty aftertaste for me.
Sucralose is much better and it is sweeter (so it keeps coils cleaner that stevia).
It is perfectly safe (read real sources, not some blogs of "health" nuts who knows little but talks too much).

 

[yardbyrd]

The sound of wind blowing through tall grass, or wheat, is heard, and as the gust grows in strength and volume, a rushing sound is heard and suddenly YardByrd appears, still in Defender form, seated on a golden perch at the bottom of the 'DIY Sweetening E-LIquid" thread. A platinum medallion drops from above and lands lightly around his neck; it is a fused Y and B. It begins to glow a golden color and you hear a deep, smooth, male, Latin, voice translating for him:

CAW! "Salutations from across the Realms those new to Stevia and it's DIY applications too!

I have returned, as promised, to report my own, subjective, and first time use of Stevia Glycerite. I tried my first shot at mixing Pomegranate e-liquid today using it. I used one half of 1%. It is the first out of the chute fruit flavor that I have had success with. For my palate it is just right. The sweetness does not affect my palate with "Cotton Candy" as EM does. My wife, who is much picker about all her e-liquids, a Pomegranate fan, and who has never liked any of my DIY pronounced it good and said, "Don't change that recipe."

I am pleased with the Stevia Glycerite and feel I have made the correct choice for my palate. Good luck everyone!" CAW!

The sound of rushing wind returns and blows YardByrd and his perch away and he is gone.

 

[GaryR]

Yardbird,
Thanks for providing your very helpful experience so far with the VG-based Stevia. I have a bottle of that and will be following up with my notes as I accumulate useful input. For those not able to find the NOW product locally, Bulk Apothecary is a good source (that's where I purchase all my PG and VG). They have the liquid in 2oz. and 8oz. and also carry the extract powder in 1oz., 4oz. and 1-lb. sizes.

Also want to try pure Stevioside power from Emperor's Herbologist and make my own liquid Stevia, both for drinks and vape mixing. They claim their Stevia extract powder is much more pure and has less aftertaste than other products. Should come out less expensive as well!

Best regards, Gary

 

[dead not sleeping]

Maybe I'm missing out, but I don't add any sweeteners to my liquids. I vape mostly creamy desserts and find them sweet enough with just the flavorings. I tried the EM, but to me it ruins what was a good juice.

I'm with relapse on this one. I don't like any of the sweeteners. I like the fruits and I've found that just a touch of Sour really makes the flavor pop out, without that chemical tasting sweetener yuk.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I just hate taste of stevia. It is not neutral sweetener, it has nasty aftertaste for me.
Sucralose is much better and it is sweeter (so it keeps coils cleaner that stevia).
It is perfectly safe (read real sources, not some blogs of "health" nuts who knows little but talks too much).

the Sucralose may be safe but leaves a horrible aftertaste for me. There are 2 varieties of stevia the rebaudiana is the no aftertaste variety. I get mine at GNC. It is a liquid NuNaturals brand.

Nothing works best for everyone though. Your taste will likely vary from mine.

 

[zoiDman]

the Sucralose may be safe but leaves a horrible aftertaste for me. There are 2 varieties of stevia the rebaudiana is the no aftertaste variety. I get mine at GNC. It is a liquid NuNaturals brand.

Nothing works best for everyone though. Your taste will likely vary from mine.

Just curious.

Who's Sucralose sweetener did you use that gave you the Horrible Aftertaste?

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Just curious.

Who's Sucralose sweetener did you use that gave you the Horrible Aftertaste?

Sucralose / Splenda sweetened foods give me that aftertaste and kinda kill my mouth and buds. Aspertame is even worse. I assumed that the commercial fruit juices I bought had the same thing in them since I got the same effect. Since virtually no commercial juices will list if they have sucralose or not I had to make this assumption based on my results with using them. This is why I almost went back to cigs but started making my own juice using no artificial additive flavors and Stevia which does not give me that bad impact. The only commercial juice I use now is a couple of tobacco extract based ones.

If you do the research you will find that a small percentage of the population cannot tolerate artificial sweeteners.

 

[zoiDman]

Sucralose / Splenda sweetened foods give me that aftertaste and kinda kill my mouth and buds. Aspertame is even worse. I assumed that the commercial fruit juices I bought had the same thing in them since I got the same effect. Since virtually no commercial juices will list if they have sucralose or not I had to make this assumption based on my results with using them. This is why I almost went back to cigs but started making my own juice using no artificial additive flavors and Stevia which does not give me that bad impact. The only commercial juice I use now is a couple of tobacco extract based ones.

If you do the research you will find that a small percentage of the population cannot tolerate artificial sweeteners.

OK.

But please go back and Read Post #20.

Because "Splenda" Isn't Pure Sucralose in a PG Base meant for e-Liquid DIY.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

OK.

But please go back and Read Post #20.

Because "Splenda" Isn't Pure Sucralose in a PG Base meant for e-Liquid DIY.

I reread it and maybe Splenda is not pure sucralose but why did I have the same effect with sweet juices as I did with Splenda? Splenda is mostly the same stuff. I wish eiuice manufacturers would list ALL the ingredients in their juice.
The splenda I got is in an alcohol and VG base.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Study: Why Fake Sweeteners Taste Disgusting to Some People But Not Others - Be Well Philly

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Another one.

Mike Davidson – The Growing Sucralose Infestation

 

[Robert Cromwell]

One of the posts in this link.

ennifer
December 23, 2006 at 10:44 pm | Reply

Whenever I have anything with sucralose in it, I get a bad taste in my mouth lasting aproximately 8 hours. I know this is not psychosomatic because it happens when I consume some by accident and unknowingly. It is a big red flag to get me reading the fine print on whatever I recently had. It’s how I found out sucralose is in Airborne. Anyway, I was wondering if this happens to anyone else.

Side Effects of Splenda or Sucralose are Dangerous and Poisons

The reaction/bad taste to sucralose is real and documented for some people.

I am not even going to get into the other issues some have with it, but that is not MY issue with it. My issue is the horrible taste and lingering aftertaste.

It might benefit juice manufacturers to make sucralose free juices and state on them as such. I would buy some as I wish I could enjoy the myrid of flavors and juices out there.

 

[zoiDman]

I reread it and maybe Splenda is not pure sucralose but why did I have the same effect with sweet juices as I did with Splenda? Splenda is mostly the same stuff. I wish eiuice manufacturers would list ALL the ingredients in their juice.
The splenda I got is in an alcohol and VG base.

Hey I not say'n that Sucralose is Right for You.

But Splenda is a Far Cry from Pure Sucralose in a PG Solution.

This is what I use...

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/p-6650-sweetener.aspx

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Fine for you ZoidMan. NO problems from me. But it is not for me or some other vapers and may be stopping some from vaping and cause them to go back to coffin nails as I almost did.