Great to meet you as well. I might wander down to the vape meet on Saturday at AJ's, so maybe I'll see you there.
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Great to meet you as well. I might wander down to the vape meet on Saturday at AJ's, so maybe I'll see you there.
If they don't make the results public ...Indeed! I've been operating under the assumption they would publish the results.The question that should have been asked at the beginning was IF...
Facedesk, when a palm just isn't enough... View attachment 252646
In my opinion, we've been had again !!
If they do make the results public ...
and they "slant" the results ...
In my opinion, we've been had again !!
I have to be objective about this. Went back and reviewed the survey text (saved it to file while taking it) and nowhere did they say the results would be published or included in any published report. So for me, at least, it teaches me (once again!) not to make assumptions up front... :banging head against wall:
Thank you, BuGlen and TampaToker, for reporting in! Sounds like you got some licks in for vapers and vaping and CASAA! Handing out the CASAA cards: excellent! I do like the idea that they're open to recommending ecigs to their patients.
Did you get to show them your PVs and mods? Did the group leader seem to know about more than just cigalikes?
Did you get to show them your PVs and mods? Did the group leader seem to know about more than just cigalikes?
Yes, and we actually were allowed to vape during the session. There were three facilitators in the room, and I assume none of them smoke, and they seemed interested in the way the devices worked. There were about 10 participant, and I don't think any of us had a cig-a-like model, and an eGo or two were probably the smallest devices in the room.
There was a lot of off-topic (noise) discussion in the room, so I'm going to follow up with one of the facilitators by sending an email with some good information links.
When participating in surveys ... There's an assumption the results will be shared
at least with those who participated !!
It doesn't make any sense to me why anyone would conduct a survey
where the results will not be released ... UNLESS the purpose of the survey
was agenda driven to gather information for XYZ's agendas.
did you not bother to read the recap... the results will be used to lobby for federal grant money.
I brought CASAA up in the discussion(s), but it was the other participant who actually brought CASAA cards to hand out. I wish I could remember his name because that was a brilliant move and I'd like to give him props.
Thanks! I really suck at names and I have to meet with someone a few times before it sticks.
Thanks! I really suck at names and I have to meet with someone a few times before it sticks.
Nicotine levels too low....
Although it's only "one small step" for vapers, I have to give Moffitt points for at least being willing to sit down and talk to vapers. (Can you imagine the TruBot inviting vapers into her lab and actually talking to them, face to face! Obviously she never has, since she calls cartomizers a "recent development.")
What Moffitt intends to do as a result of these focus groups remains to be seen, however...
Studies that don't have seasoned e-smokers on the team ...
might be "a step in the right direction" and we should just fall all over ourselves
being thankful some are studying the subject ...
However, I'm NOT Impressed !!
Every single study could have decided to INCLUDE at least 1 seasoned
and well informed e-smoker on their team.
I'm sure if any e-smokers were to be on a team ...
then the study would have been considered to be Politically Incorrect
because ONLY those who don't vape should be allowed to study e-smoking.
might be "a step in the right direction" and we should just fall all over ourselves
being thankful some are studying the subject ...
However, I'm NOT Impressed !!
Every single study could have decided to INCLUDE at least 1 seasoned
and well informed e-smoker on their team.
I'm sure if any e-smokers were to be on a team ...
then the study would have been considered to be Politically Incorrect
because ONLY those who don't vape should be allowed to study e-smoking.
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I understand your skepticism, given the current political/media environment, I really do. However, I can't help but ask myself that if they already had a agenda against vaping, why would they try to get information from focus groups of vapers who were successful at using the products (which all of us in the room were)? If they really had that agenda, couldn't they do what others have already done and just cite the existing junk science?
In any case, your statement about them not having a clue when the session started is very true. By the end of the 90+ minute session, however, they had heard a great deal of information from the participants who were more than willing to share their experiences. One of the most memorable comments by the lead facilitator was that she was really surprised by the overwhelming enthusiasm of advocacy we all had for vaping as a great tool to quit smoking. We also made it clear that the majority of us (8 out of 10, I believe), had no plans to give up vaping, and that e-cigs were not designed as a cessation device.
I generally invite skepticism on any given point as it usually leads to good debate, and I always learn something from a good debate. I just feel that you might be experiencing some PTSD in the war on vaping, and you might be projecting some undue criticism in this case. Both Bill and Greg have chimed in on this thread (both of whom I respect immensely for their knowledge and experience), and neither could find evidence of the Moffitt center having an agenda.
For me, I am remaining cautiously optimistic, until and unless there's a definitive reason and evidence to distrust this potential ally.
Reminds me of someone who vapes trying to explain to a smoker
what to expect if the smoker would try an e-cigarette.
The smoker gets a general idea ...
but really doesn't "get it" until the smoker takes the first puff
from a quality PV. Then we hear the smoker say ... WOW ... I had no idea !!
WOW ... Came AFTER a long discussion
and ONLY After the first puff
what to expect if the smoker would try an e-cigarette.
The smoker gets a general idea ...
but really doesn't "get it" until the smoker takes the first puff
from a quality PV. Then we hear the smoker say ... WOW ... I had no idea !!
WOW ... Came AFTER a long discussion
and ONLY After the first puff
Well, I pretty much agree with what *everyone* is saying here. If researchers were genuinely objective about studying ecigs and vapers, they would have been interviewing vapers even before they started their study design! I think it's clear to most of us that ideology is driving the majority of research done or currently underway.
But I stand by my "one small step" opinion. It *is* IMO encouraging that they saw possible utility in talking to vapers and hearing about their experiences and plumbing their knowledge. However, I remain absolutely neutral on my expectations of the Moffitt results. We'll know when we know. Till then, I'm off to see if Mr. Frogg has been up to anything lately...
But I stand by my "one small step" opinion. It *is* IMO encouraging that they saw possible utility in talking to vapers and hearing about their experiences and plumbing their knowledge. However, I remain absolutely neutral on my expectations of the Moffitt results. We'll know when we know. Till then, I'm off to see if Mr. Frogg has been up to anything lately...
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