Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[MacTechVpr]

Mac I understand you 100%. Since I have begun using the coiling gizmo and the performance of my coils is noticeably better. I was kicking myself when my calculations were wrong and then I measured the 1.5mm rod turned out to be 1.57mm and I'm getting exact results now


Now my questiin regarding the too much tension. Is that why I can see hot loops and then when I rake or pass the rod back and forth inside the coil (a la superx) it becomes consistent again? Are we able by raking or "rubbing" release some of the excess tension and make it properly tension and in the zone? So mainly what I'm asking is should I kick myself to get the tension just right in the zone, or excess tension can be removed after the fact by raking and "rubbing" . Thanks mac.

Short answer: Yes. You can cure elongation skew by raking. Carefully.

Best as I can appreciate what's happening analyzing many hundreds of micro winds on clearos is that yes, excess strain is inducing turns to go slightly off-axis in pitch angle. I don't think it's as much a problem for jig winders as hand winders. It's a combination of over-strain and angle-of-attack off the perpendicular of the wire to the bit. However, when it happens, and I think cigatron at some point explained the science best, surface adhesion occurs trapping the wire in this elongated pitch. Raking, inside or outside, I prefer the latter, briefly interrupts that contact and causes the wire to jump back closer and tighter to what it recalls it's natural original state was, i.e. to actual mandrel diameter. Then you start seeing a resistance that matches the theoretical more closely. Sometimes a single rake is not enough. But you rake and pulse, if on a variable see the difference. If you rake on a carto-meter the slight voltage being transmitted seems to be enough to induce very slight oxidation and you register the change in resistance.

Always, always when tightening leads be very careful with the attack angle. Always perpendicular and in the direction of exit from the bit. This is one of the most common ways to wreck a t.m.c. inducing elongation skew. Impart more energy than originally input and goodbye t.m.c. If you're getting hot leads or turns due to visible skew and raking doesn't resolve it, toss. You'll thank yourself.

Hand winders have an advantage being able to make dynamic changes in attack angle of the wire. You can observe the tendency of wire to change it's pitch with variations in tension. Variations in wire width though subtle can also manifest themselves as a change in pitch even when pressure is constant. So it's a miracle of sorts that this can actually be compensated for with some hand-eye coordination. Why I recommend everyone learn to hand wind to gain a feel for these nuances. They lend some insight into the mechanical requirements.

Good luck all.

 

[turbocad6]

ha,Russ, well at first when I pictured this thing in my head it seemed simple enough and I did think of you russ and thought to build 2 at the same time, but decided to build only 1 since it's just a prototype and I'm sure after building and using it I'll come up with at least some revisions, so I only built this one....

after I started building I winded up changing the design several times in my head as I built it and it winded up getting more and more complicated. now this thing turned into a lot of work to perfect but I'm learning what works and what doesn't work, refining the angles and I modified the drive system a few times. I'm using a 3.7v motor to keep size down and power it with a single 18650 in the base but the 3.7 volt motor by itself has some severe torque limitations, way to high rpm and way to little torque which is where the dual gear reduction drive comes into play. then even with the gear reductions I still need to slow it down even more and this also reduces torque so it's a matter of balancing everything to work well. I don't want to add even more gear reduction because that would make it so I can't turn the arm by hand which is something that really would make this even harder to use. I originally thought to make it variable speed but then decided I'd only need a low and a high speed. now after some testing and tuning I'm thinking I may be fine with just one medium speed but I'm still refining things and have more testing to do. so far there is just this one and it still needs refinement and a lot more testing before I can really say it's perfect, but again, so far it's working really well even at this stage...

honestly it was pretty stupid of me to dive into a prototype alpha design without even having a final design nailed down and doing it in billet aluminum, I really should have built one first from wood or something much easier to work with, then once I had a solid proven design I could have then built an aluminum one, but going in I really didn't think it would get this complicated and intricate so building it from 6061 t6 billet aluminum really slowed me down, I thought I'd finish it in a few days but I'm going on almost 2 weeks so far and still have a lot to do on it

 

[El Dee]

Tagging in !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stringer63]

Dang it man. Read through this entire thread and have to get a gizmo this weekend now. Hey Russ, I've got some old baitcaster reels laying around will saw off a rod and give it a go. The "swamper" movie inspired me brother!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[super_X_drifter]

Dang it man. Read through this entire thread and have to get a gizmo this weekend now. Hey Russ, I've got some old baitcaster reels laying around will saw off a rod and give it a go. The "swamper" movie inspired me brother!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes a bait caster will likely work better than a zebco style reel where the wire is parallel to the rod. As long as the wire comes off perpendicular to the gizmo rod you should be good. You are on the right track Rob.

 

[astronomicals]

super. you said like ten pages back that you're back to pretorching wire. Is that still the case? Whats the consensus on this? Would like to hear anyones opinion on this.

 

[RGLP4Lyfe]

Pretty sure X said he went back to pre torching because that helps the wire keep its shape as a coil after he wraps it.

-Mark

 

[RGLP4Lyfe]

Turbo, can I please see a sneak peek of your coil wrapping MACHINE!? Please! I'm sure I'm not the only curious one. Done or not, i don't care lets see it and all its details!

-Mark

 

[turbocad6]

alright I took a quick video with my phone. it's still not as smooth as it should be because while this was shot the wire retention guide is still just a raw spring steel leaf here, since the video I covered the wire contact area of the spring leaf with a heavy duty felt wiper strip and it's def much better now but you get the idea a bit. the feed guide arm is now calibrated to automatically follow the whole length of the coil from beginning to end at the right angle with no interaction or manual guiding. I'll do a real video when it's all finished but it's something at least



you'll notice I adjusted the tension at one point and then I increased the tension again in the middle of that coil and continued. on that coil i can easily see that the diameter decreases further where the tension was raised further

 

[Cucco]

alright I took a quick video with my phone. it's still not as smooth as it should be because while this was shot the wire retention guide is still just a raw spring steel leaf here, since the video I covered the wire contact area of the spring leaf with a heavy duty felt wiper strip and it's def much better now but you get the idea a bit. the feed guide arm is now calibrated to automatically follow the whole length of the coil from beginning to end at the right angle with no interaction or manual guiding. I'll do a real video when it's all finished but it's something at least



you'll notice I adjusted the tension at one point and then I increased the tension again in the middle of that coil and continued. on that coil i can easily see that the diameter decreases further where the tension was raised further

You guys are so much fun!

 

[sedge]

Turbo. That is amazing.

 

[Flavored]

Wicked . . .

 

[super_X_drifter]

alright I took a quick video with my phone. it's still not as smooth as it should be because while this was shot the wire retention guide is still just a raw spring steel leaf here, since the video I covered the wire contact area of the spring leaf with a heavy duty felt wiper strip and it's def much better now but you get the idea a bit. the feed guide arm is now calibrated to automatically follow the whole length of the coil from beginning to end at the right angle with no interaction or manual guiding. I'll do a real video when it's all finished but it's something at least



you'll notice I adjusted the tension at one point and then I increased the tension again in the middle of that coil and continued. on that coil i can easily see that the diameter decreases further where the tension was raised further

That is so off the chain. Damn. I can already hear the Chinese wheels turning. In a month or two someone will be selling the "elektro Koiler" and it'll look exactly like that but be made of plastic and suck ballz.

 

[MacTechVpr]

alright I took a quick video with my phone. it's still not as smooth as it should be because while this was shot the wire retention guide is still just a raw spring steel leaf here, since the video I covered the wire contact area of the spring leaf with a heavy duty felt wiper strip and it's def much better now but you get the idea a bit. the feed guide arm is now calibrated to automatically follow the whole length of the coil from beginning to end at the right angle with no interaction or manual guiding. I'll do a real video when it's all finished but it's something at least



you'll notice I adjusted the tension at one point and then I increased the tension again in the middle of that coil and continued. on that coil i can easily see that the diameter decreases further where the tension was raised further

Wholly molly T.



Love to see an overhead view! Direction of wind (attack angle). How did you determine it? I gather, static, but it seems you nailed it.

Good luck. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[turbocad6]

here's an attempt of a shot from the top mac

 

[turbocad6]

and one from further away to see how the arm follows the coil

 

[MacTechVpr]

here's an attempt of a shot from the top mac

HAHAHAHA…love it! You've got just enough tension away on the tie-down for it not to creep off and bite in. Then tension does it's job stacking' the rest. Purrrfect. Now it's a question of getting a feel for the sweet zone for the tension the mechanism's layin' down and you're golden. I caught ya adjustin' for it with the bit Ø changes. The drag is different. Looks like you're on your way T.

I'm lookin' at the thing blown up on a 32" Sony HD though. Spreads are very uniform. But I see two zones. It looks like the last 6$ are tighter than the 1st 4. Like the torque caused the wire to bite in harder after T4 rather than the 1st 1or2 (torque lag). You'll likely get 6 turns cool, 4 hot sometimes with such a wind even after compressing electrically. That's the heavy lifting nature does with tension. Applying it evenly once adhesion start's the goal.

Regardless of uniform adhesion for pulsing into a micro. You've apparently got enough to form rigidity, so no torching should be needed in any case. It's hard with twisted and only do 'em if I can get the twists interlocking anymore. Once I saw the diff in production, I got spoiled. I can't make 'em reliably with anything higher than 30. And of them, 2/3's I toss as not interlocked. They just simply don't fuse the same. I find one cycle and you start to see separation. Too much maintenance. I love Nextel with twisters and it'll go weeks if the wind stays together. So this, this would be major! I don't think the oxidation's doin' the same job after re-compression. Not as powerful an output so you've got to be seeing some energy waste. Well enough on that.

It could be that given your jig's geometry, line distance, drag or slipperiness (OoR, Ø) of the bit, etc. that it's at that particular attack angle that it marries up with the bias angle (optimal) of that particular wind and hunkers down. That is, dead on to the direction of wind. That's gonna change with every wind…bit/dia/wire gauge. But if there is even some not so apparent separation there's no adhesion under tension.

No matter, if you need to loose/dewind a few but 4 turns starts to get 'pensive in time and $. Something to watch. I'd run out 20 or more continuous anyway and take out a pair for the build. Once the wire bites in with this rig I'm sure you're high consistency. That's the good news. You seem to be getting that uniformity after T4. So tensioned multi-wire micro's…

Maybe slightly holding the spool a sec might get the wire to bite down sooner. Might help to help adjust marry up wire surfaces (I'd love to play with that thing T). Might want to increase your drag slightly for that wire gauge or bit (mark your results on the spool, note bit+guage). Or a different bit material. I've tried a variety and finally settled on HS high-quality drill blanks as the most uniform and least likely to deform the wind. I'm sure you're gonna find a few tricks.

You've got some real spindle rotation eccentricity. Dunno if it's the bit, chuck or shaft. That may play havoc even if low velocity, torque and speed. It'll impart a slight variation in tension as the bit toggles back-and-forth from the feed. Cure that and you'll go more uniformly tighter. Maybe ramping up the startup tension point too.

Awesome and compact. One batt, lol. Sweet.

G'luck

 

[Stringer63]

Yes a bait caster will likely work better than a zebco style reel where the wire is parallel to the rod. As long as the wire comes off perpendicular to the gizmo rod you should be good. You are on the right track Rob.

Did a little shopping and today I reeled in my first swamper tmc! My old baitcaster didn't have a smooth drag so I picked this little gem of a reel up today for $16 and it worked great. Yee haw!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[astronomicals]

i started playing with my gizmo today and my coils ohms seem off. I feel like i must be stretching this 30 gauge. not sure exactly whats happening. my coils always agreed with the calculator in the past. on the bright side, the vape tastes way better with this micro vs. the twisted i was using. much cooler too. ill build more tomorrow and see whats going on.

 

[Aal_]

i started playing with my gizmo today and my coils ohms seem off. I feel like i must be stretching this 30 gauge. not sure exactly whats happening. my coils always agreed with the calculator in the past. on the bright side, the vape tastes way better with this micro vs. the twisted i was using. much cooler too. ill build more tomorrow and see whats going on.

Did you measure the rod diameter? My 1.5mm rod turned out to be 1.57mm and calculations made sense after that.