Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
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I was in ..... over the weekend and decided to look at reels, didn't find many fly reels and whatever they did have was too big and expensive and just didn't grab me but I spent some time looking at and playing with other reels and I winded up picking up a bait casting reel, this lil guy right here
http://www......sportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16583176&cp=4406646.4413993.4414792
wow link don't work because of the word D I C K S
very compact, up to 12 lb's of drag resistance. played with it a bit and I think it's going to work good. my biggest concern is that I like to use several different wire types or gages which is why I didn't want a reel in the first place but these are cheap enough that I guess I could collect 3 or 4 and load each with different wire.
http://www......sportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16583176&cp=4406646.4413993.4414792
wow link don't work because of the word D I C K S
very compact, up to 12 lb's of drag resistance. played with it a bit and I think it's going to work good. my biggest concern is that I like to use several different wire types or gages which is why I didn't want a reel in the first place but these are cheap enough that I guess I could collect 3 or 4 and load each with different wire.
Mac, I thought you were against de-winding practice because it disturbs the coil. Then I saw your post about it regarding having all the wraps with the same tension. So did you have a change of heart? Is de-winding now approved by the tension master? 
Mac, I thought you were against de-winding practice because it disturbs the coil. Then I saw your post about it regarding having all the wraps with the same tension. So did you have a change of heart? Is de-winding now approved by the tension master?
I highly doubt that he's against it, because with a pin vice, you would have a wrap or two to de-wind on the side that's bent into the chuck.
I believe he advocates gentle pressure - even just using your fingers if possible to unwind not pulling like a mule with pliers. If you must use pliers, use em gently
Where did you locate the "Gizmo with the drill chuck" you mentioned? Just curious...
I also have a suggestion that I would use for mandrels if I had a drill chuck thing to use... get a good set of pin punches in either metric or American sizes.
I was in ..... over the weekend and decided to look at reels, didn't find many fly reels and whatever they did have was too big and expensive and just didn't grab me but I spent some time looking at and playing with other reels and I winded up picking up a bait casting reel, this lil guy right here
http://www......sportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=16583176&cp=4406646.4413993.4414792
wow link don't work because of the word D I C K S
very compact, up to 12 lb's of drag resistance. played with it a bit and I think it's going to work good. my biggest concern is that I like to use several different wire types or gages which is why I didn't want a reel in the first place but these are cheap enough that I guess I could collect 3 or 4 and load each with different wire.
My thoughts on this as a fisherman...
Flyfishers use a leader attached to the thicker fly line on the majority of the reels spool. Why not use that same technique with wire? Spool up that reel with the largest most oft used kanthal you like, then twist on a shorter length of whatever smaller dia wire you want to use for a new build and fill up the last of the spool with that?
Coolness
Its just called professional deluxe coiling gizmo.
http://www.amazon.com/Beadalon-Artistic-Professional-Deluxe-Coiling/dp/B00K58S9QE
Its just called professional deluxe coiling gizmo.
http://www.amazon.com/Beadalon-Artistic-Professional-Deluxe-Coiling/dp/B00K58S9QE
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Coolness
Its just called professional deluxe coiling gizmo.
http://www.amazon.com/Beadalon-Artistic-Professional-Deluxe-Coiling/dp/B00K58S9QE
Where was that last week when I got my ACG deluxe? Damn... outclassed again!
No worries bro. That is an awesome setup but will cause starter wraps where the wire is trapped in the chuck. Not terrible but I prefer to avoid starter wraps if possible.
Mac, I thought you were against de-winding practice because it disturbs the coil. Then I saw your post about it regarding having all the wraps with the same tension. So did you have a change of heart? Is de-winding now approved by the tension master?
Everyone should learn to de-wind as well as use a pin vise if you're a vaper. Two invaluable skills. We're human. No count of how many times you disturb an end turn. I've explained I wind extra coils. I also target res a bit higher most times so if I have to lose a turn no biggie. But the moment comes you gotta strip off. And a little practice and technique helps to keep the leads balanced. Mismatch and you may lose the micro, get a hot lead, take too long to oxidize it, scorch the wind. I'm not sayin' perfect here, not at all. Just consistent. And a few inches of wire is not worth the time. I want the coil to fire end to end within a couple of pulses at low voltage with as little intervention as possible. And I want to do that 100 times in a row.
I've found that balance is very important. So I usually strip off both sides. Been doing it since the start. But experience has confirmed for me that a cool, low voltage laying on of oxidation is what yields the most productive stable vape. Too much pulsing for correction of imperfections is to be avoided. So yes, I de-wind. Anytime I suspect an imbalance, look it over. Keep magnification handy. Don't waste time on suspect winds. A few seconds Aal just saves minutes fiddling in correction but those minutes add up! And I've got a lot of gear to keep running. I certainly can get a marginal coil where it needs to go but my vape's not a hobby…it's serious business. That's the way I choose to look at it. Perhaps from the experience of working over and over with many others often spinning up batches of dozens. The time we waste is far more valuable.
Every once in a while I practice continuous winding on a longer bit. So I can generate multiple matched pairs. Like hoop or jewelry makers do. Takes some finesse but definitely doable to separate and de-wind to size. I try to use this approach with the tensioned derivative of Matty's build, the twisted center post duals, really quads. The goal tension parity. They have to be counter wound so I'll spin up left hand-right hand pairs and separate them, voila.
So what I'm saying is de-windling is very much related to the results obtained ultimately in oxidation. If you're good with a jig, you can pull it off. But it's an important skill to match leads whether you're a tension winder or not. So pass on the method to a beginner always. And most definitely until they know how to find the wire's resistance, a t.m.c., consistently.
Good luck Aal.
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Yepp that's the jig I ordered...Hobby Lobby had 3/32 music wire....the welding store had stainless in 1/16 and 3/32...the piano store has closed up shop....I've got a section of 2mm clothes hanger that looks pretty good....still....don't really wanna run that...I've got some long shank 1/8 drill bits....Gonna check that hardware store tomorrow for long shank 5/64th.....My plan is too cut them down.....Just about an inch protruding from the chuck....Then to keep the starter leg pinned I plan on drilling through the center of something circular....a casino chip or something similar...I plan on epoxying the disc onto the mandrel...Maybe grind a flat of the mandrel and use the epoxy as sort of a key...Chuck that up with the disc butting the chuck...To pin the wire I plan on drilling as close too the perimeter of the disc as possible and using a SS screw....a very small ss screw!!! Now dig this...Reel and chuck mounted on a base...Position the screw on the disc so it's as close too the reel as possible...Wrap the wire around the screw as tight as needed to achieve full reel drag before the disc rotates 180*....Yahh Dig???? Maybe it will work...A small hole in the disc may be adequate to pin the starter leg....It's a work in progress...
I've been a happy camper in Pro-Vari/K Fun land for some time now....Recent additions to the fleet were an I Stick 50/ Kanger Sub Mini and a couple of tanks...Yesterday I got a Goblin in the mail...I ordered up some 29G and a USA Ohm Meter....Running the 29 and the meter is still joy riding so no Goblin yet!! Today I opened the box to find 2 Trippy Tips KayFun Plasma Tanks...I whipped out the Coil Master and spun up a coil of the 29 and am happily enjoying the Plasma...I'm planning on modifying a KayFun for more airflow soon....I've not seen a V4 KF but if the airflow is adequate and the Plasma fits I may just grab a V4 clone instead of modifying my KF....
With never having wrapped 29 and coming off 28 my first coil ohmed at .08 with 7 wraps...Well the Pro Vari ain't never gonna play with that so I chunked it and did a 10 wrap....Now here's where I've issue with the Coil Master...Starting ohms 1.2...No squeezing just playing out the location of the coil on the deck....Fire cool....fire cool...When I'm satisfied I lay the coals too it....Just minimal tweeking and the ohms are now 1.5.... .03 ohms from just minor tweeking....I never saw that when it was just me and a drill bit..
I've been a happy camper in Pro-Vari/K Fun land for some time now....Recent additions to the fleet were an I Stick 50/ Kanger Sub Mini and a couple of tanks...Yesterday I got a Goblin in the mail...I ordered up some 29G and a USA Ohm Meter....Running the 29 and the meter is still joy riding so no Goblin yet!! Today I opened the box to find 2 Trippy Tips KayFun Plasma Tanks...I whipped out the Coil Master and spun up a coil of the 29 and am happily enjoying the Plasma...I'm planning on modifying a KayFun for more airflow soon....I've not seen a V4 KF but if the airflow is adequate and the Plasma fits I may just grab a V4 clone instead of modifying my KF....
With never having wrapped 29 and coming off 28 my first coil ohmed at .08 with 7 wraps...Well the Pro Vari ain't never gonna play with that so I chunked it and did a 10 wrap....Now here's where I've issue with the Coil Master...Starting ohms 1.2...No squeezing just playing out the location of the coil on the deck....Fire cool....fire cool...When I'm satisfied I lay the coals too it....Just minimal tweeking and the ohms are now 1.5.... .03 ohms from just minor tweeking....I never saw that when it was just me and a drill bit..
Thanks for the test link roly.
LB, Apple's update is live on the Apple Store page.
Good luck all.
I have got to comment on this.... after refresh.Read through and got it Jef. An avid tobacco fan all my life. I've surveyed literally thousands of vapers from all over the world. What you report is not uncommon. Winding erratic winds that are in many cases overheating beyond the wires capacity we get accustomed to that diffuse taste. And I want to call it that. It's not a flavor. Agree with you there. But it is a texture. A texture we associate with thoat hit. The real thing is the texture and organic impact of nicotine. Being that you dilute as I do at all nic levels, you're feeling light. Right on. You're getting the nic alright, and probably more of it. But you're not sensing that. You're detecting what you've associated as that experience. And a drier output is not what t.m.c.'s deliver. Very accurate observation. As well as your report of flavor density.
My take on all this is that inefficient vaporization has in a manner of speaking modified our sensibilities as to flavor and accustomed us to the dry heat that a diffuse vapor provides. And the more of it, the more some report this as better flavor as explained above. But it isn't particularly as you acknowledge. It is a texture that you're missing and that's part of what we interpret as taste.
What tensioned winds deliver is more effective vaporization. Those tuned in to density rather than heat production are going to get a blast of flavor missing from a diffuse vape, as many new Subtank users have noted. They need greater density from a standard OCC. If you've grown to appreciate the other, well that's now your preference. I wouldn't want to try and talk you out of it bro. Instead Id say you can still build tensioned symmetrical open winds and target all the heat diffusion you like, efficiently. Glad that you got that too. That tension's about proper electrical construction.
My introduction of tension as means to make efficient vapor is first so we can get folks quickly to a reliable vape. Beyond that it's a vaping universe. And tension is an important tool that can be used to tailor any vaping experience. For beginners, the most practical means to define their own preferences having found what wire is supposed to do. And yes, that means control of texture too. But it starts with a proper electrical coil. And now you've seen the difference to be able to make an accurate assessment. That's important to us all.
I'm just glad the reference standard didn't remain the Vivi Nova.
It's been a pleasure to read your refreshingly earnest account Jef. Thanks.
Best of luck.
Read through and got it Jef. An avid tobacco fan all my life. I've surveyed literally thousands of vapers from all over the world. What you report is not uncommon. Winding erratic winds that are in many cases overheating beyond the wires capacity we get accustomed to that diffuse taste. And I want to call it that. It's not a flavor. Agree with you there. But it is a texture. A texture we associate with thoat hit. The real thing is the texture and organic impact of nicotine. Being that you dilute as I do at all nic levels, you're feeling light. Right on. You're getting the nic alright, and probably more of it. But you're not sensing that. You're detecting what you've associated as that experience. And a drier output is not what t.m.c.'s deliver. Very accurate observation. As well as your report of flavor density.
My take on all this is that inefficient vaporization has in a manner of speaking modified our sensibilities as to flavor and accustomed us to the dry heat that a diffuse vapor provides. And the more of it, the more some report this as better flavor as explained above. But it isn't particularly as you acknowledge. It is a texture that you're missing and that's part of what we interpret as taste.
What tensioned winds deliver is more effective vaporization. Those tuned in to density rather than heat production are going to get a blast of flavor missing from a diffuse vape, as many new Subtank users have noted. They need greater density from a standard OCC. If you've grown to appreciate the other, well that's now your preference. I wouldn't want to try and talk you out of it bro. Instead Id say you can still build tensioned symmetrical open winds and target all the heat diffusion you like, efficiently. Glad that you got that too. That tension's about proper electrical construction.
My introduction of tension as means to make efficient vapor is first so we can get folks quickly to a reliable vape. Beyond that it's a vaping universe. And tension is an important tool that can be used to tailor any vaping experience. For beginners, the most practical means to define their own preferences having found what wire is supposed to do. And yes, that means control of texture too. But it starts with a proper electrical coil. And now you've seen the difference to be able to make an accurate assessment. That's important to us all.
I'm just glad the reference standard didn't remain the Vivi Nova.
It's been a pleasure to read your refreshingly earnest account Jef. Thanks.
Best of luck.
Just a side note. I don't know how or if it plays in all this, but vapor particle size is also an important factor. Differing taste buds are more receptive to certain sizes of particles. This can lead to a taste skew for the exact same vapor constituents chemically but that have different size particles.
Excellent point. And your experience is appreciated and most welcome. It's a complex issue to control as the chem has much impact. I never thought I'd like the MutX with so much air. At about mid open the airflow works extremely well at producing that kind of particle size with a good vaporization density build. You know, I got to like it. So I've been more receptive to a more diffused, slight dry side vape with the Subtank. I know I write a lot about tension winding. But I enjoy variation and showing folks how to get there. There are a lot of approaches to doing so and diffusion, fine vapor, drier output all these things if we want them. I have an assortment of Helios and split/pos clones to explore that. But focusing on Protanks for new vapers hasn't afforded much opportunity to delve into what tight resistance targeting can do for varieties of texture or the results on specific devices.
This last coil I worked on was about building density into the diffuse Subtank vape. And surprisingly the output has remained rather light in texture even as flavor density blossomed. So it's not all about Kanger's very ample and spread coil either. A lot goin' on with the airflow and substantial fluid flow in this design.
I hope this thead becomes a good exposition for all of this and doesn't get typed as a flavor chaser trap. If you're a big fan of tobacco as I've been you need all the tools to really capture the experience.
Wellcome Al.
Good luck.
Wow...I am going to have to back up and punt on this one it seems very interesting.
I'm going to start by saying thank you to Super X for his youtube videos. I watched one of them to learn how to wrap my very first coil, many months ago. I have since tried many methods, with my favorite until recently being a pin vise with a drill bit mounted in reverse (drill portion mounted in the pin vise). Just got a Coil Master and after a very short learning curve and a foot of wasted wire I have to say that I have found my coil-winding nirvana.
Having said that, I haven't read this entire thread, nor do I have a degree in metallurgy, but I have to ask:
How does pulling the wire taught when winding it make the coil better? Once you relieve the tension and remove it from the bit it is just a static coil that seems would not be any different than a hand wound non-tensioned coil when compared side-by-side. I could see if the object was to mount the coil under tension to somehow improve it's functional properties, but that just is not the case. So why bother?...other than just to fuss about with different "toys".
Again, not trying to rain on the parade, and I get that it's a lot of fun to devise new ways to make the perfect coil using inventive methods, but other than the cool-fun factor, are you really getting a better coil than by using something like the Coil Master?
Anyway, I'll end like I started: Props to Super X for all of his tutorial videos and his active participation here. I'm sure a lot of n00bs have gotten off on the absolute right foot (including me) and/or avoided a certain disaster because of his efforts. Thanks
Having said that, I haven't read this entire thread, nor do I have a degree in metallurgy, but I have to ask:
How does pulling the wire taught when winding it make the coil better? Once you relieve the tension and remove it from the bit it is just a static coil that seems would not be any different than a hand wound non-tensioned coil when compared side-by-side. I could see if the object was to mount the coil under tension to somehow improve it's functional properties, but that just is not the case. So why bother?...other than just to fuss about with different "toys".
Again, not trying to rain on the parade, and I get that it's a lot of fun to devise new ways to make the perfect coil using inventive methods, but other than the cool-fun factor, are you really getting a better coil than by using something like the Coil Master?
Anyway, I'll end like I started: Props to Super X for all of his tutorial videos and his active participation here. I'm sure a lot of n00bs have gotten off on the absolute right foot (including me) and/or avoided a certain disaster because of his efforts. Thanks
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