Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

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MacTechVpr

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:danger: Long & Technical :danger:

I started vaping almost a year ago and have been following Mac & Super_X’s threads for ten months or so. Their efforts have made mine much more productive. These gentlemen are vaping heroes. Thank you both!...

You're welcome!

Wanna thank ya @aldenf for the excellent synopsis and taking the time to validate many of these basic ideas I've tried to faithfully convey here on ECF. Some differences but there's no way I can get to these in one evening. And on others where i'd love to entertain a discussion.

One I'd wish to emphasize again...that all wire has intrinsic internal imbalances of strain. Kanthal as you note also exhibits substantial variation of surface structure and runout (diameter) imperfections. Plentiful, even within a short section of wire. Each and every one of these capable of intruding into our vape and reflected in the unavoidable variability we see in reports by vapers attempting to reproduce the same wind. Maybe just fine for a toaster or refractory oven but more than just subtle enough to make our vape different from one wind to the next.

So just to focus on this I'd say understanding adhesion is central to this. It is the discovery of this in trying to reproduce the micro, adapting tension with an industry standard pin vise, that revealed that there's more to "sticky" than just symmetry. How important? Wire first compresses (deflects) then when closest proximity is achieved (adhesion), yields to elongation. This very subtly acts to further flatten the compressed wire surface. You simply can't get wire closer for oxidation. And what ever defects may exist in the material surface have been minimized in practical terms. There may still remain gaps but so small as to likely require optics to see. If open inter-turn gaps can be seen, the wind has failed or wire has serious diameter issues. But in this optimized state of contact oxidation can easily fill these small gaps very efficiently. And yes, to answer your question quickly.

To gain familiarity with response time to initiate wire lighting (I gave minimal power specs earlier in the thread) we need to find/learn the mark. It varies with wire gauge and to some extent the device whether mech, variable and type of modulation. I prefer and have done well over a thousand builds with variables of all kinds. Mech's too on occasion but when a batt at no more than half-charge or less and very light pulses. The norm for me is to use a var dev. Then turn axis strain (skew, what's liberated by brushing) AND inconsistent turn strain are often revealed in the first pulse or two by hi-side resistance Ω-reads (as wind suddenly goes high temp). Once identified turns can be returned by brushing, etc. to the wound state of rest (equilibrium) before RIDGIDITY is burned into wire memory. If pulsing goes too swiftly or at high temp during these initial fires (mebe x1 if >V) you've locked in whatever gaps or skew may be present. It's poss to release the lock with raking but too much repeated force can get you worse than skew, no adhesion. The wind may perform, even go full micro and exhibit considerably thermal evenness yet operate at higher temp/res. I've vaped lots of winds like this. Tossed out countless more. No point.

Why is this important?

You have two winds. One where oxidation is practically uniform, the other where gaps remain or uneven often insufficient alumina layers are present. Which will likely go out of res (temp) to the high side in operation? The goal is to control that. That's the criteria an earlier poster cited as imperative. True that.

I'd suggest some research on breakdown voltage to those interested. But essentially it's the point at which insulation is defeated and current will breach material surfaces. What I (and others here) refer to as electron jump. Really interesting stuff and quite the foundation for much of our problems. One of the most fascinating and alarming observations I made early on working with clearo's was just how easily higher applied voltage would defeat even careful consistent torching oxidation (before I learned how conductive it was). You see I was arc'ing leads seriously on Protanks due to assembly wall proximity. I hesitate to publish here the rest of my findings on that. Suffice it to say I became convinced how seriously important alumina oxidation was to a stable and safe vape.

In fairness to the coiler folks regarding utility, it is easier to wind thicker gauges into more consistent closer proximity. You can compress/anneal a coil to a state similar to Russ' original torched micro at thicker gauges. For the casual user, this might be just the ticket. But I don't think folks at 24AWG spec winds for their daily, like me, are going to be big fans of the coiler though. I threw one in my kit nonetheless 'cause you never know.

So what does this reveal. The most important objective of strain winding is oxidation. Especially for starter winders who very badly need to see circuit stability they can just count on to work. The build has enough variables to keep us all busy.

The problem with repeated pulse annealing or oxidation is that with every high temp fire we begin to soften, weaken and potentially warp the very precise contact we've just wound. Precise tensioned alignment helps to mitigate that but it's insurance, not protection. It's heart surgery on that wire. You want to get in and get out quick. Which means arriving at the minimal doorstep of adhesion, knockin' on it and making sure you've gained entry. That point to my present thinking is just as wire begins to fire end to end at the target color temperature which I posted on earlier.

Hopefully these points will help guide an approach to looking at this technique. Practice is perfect.

I truly hope the convo flourishes on all alternatives and sheds even more light on how to best complete the circuit. But adequate uniform oxidation is the essential ingredient missing from the vape.

Good luck all.

:)
 
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Katya

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etherealink

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Ok, let me play Devil's Advocate here for a bit and say that I have seen several critical things mentioned here that I think have been glossed over due to the speed of the thread and I want to make sure they get a moment in the sun.

1) The idea of micro/macro coil, whether contact or spaced is simply to vaporize our liquid in as efficient way as possible. No matter if the coil has tension or not, that is the entire goal.

2) The process of making a coil involves dry-firing the wire once it's mounted to establish a layer of oxidation. The oxidation helps to insulate the coil and stabilize it, keeping it's shape and resistance intact and as close to where it was formed to as possible.

3) Removing human error/variation is the most effective method to produce a coil, with precision, repeatably. With that in mind, the various jigs make removing the "human factor" is a major key for both beginners and advanced builders alike.

With that said, I want to touch on the possible jigs that all accomplish the same thing in a more-or-less effective manner:

A) The Dark Zero style or puck jig; a screw holds the starting end of the wire as it's wrapped (with or without intentionally using tension) around a static mandrel. The starting end of the wire being held for you, lets you concentrate on the wraps of the coil while wrapping it.

B) The Pin Vise/Artistic Coil Jig; the starting end of the wire is again held for you and the mandrel is turned and the wire forms around it while being held still. This is a slight improvement as it allows the wire to be laid more accurately and with more consistency than the Dark Zero style jig, yet only slightly.

C) The Kuro CoilMaster style jig; the wire end is held again, but as the mandrel is rotated, the wire can be held snug against itself to help make wraps that lay snug against each other.

Each of these methods makes a perfectly acceptable coil that will vape quite well, the objective being simply to vaporize juice. What they do not always remove is the human factor and that is what we are trying to show is possible by using tension. The simple use of *consistent* tension takes the factory imperfections out of the wire and gives us a more stable unit, as we have all seen in testing; the question as to whether using a jig that simply "forms" wire instead of intentionally introducing tension can create a stable heating unit is the major importance here.

Can a formed coil still vaporize our juice, yes. Does it do it as well, that's the question. Let's face it, resistance wire, even in a straight line when power is applied makes a heating element that will vaporize juice... even if badly.

To prove the theory, I invite anyone to put a "hand-formed, non-tensioned" coil side by side with one made under consistent tension and look at the results, not just look at the words on the page. I'm going to go a step farther and create non-consistent tension on purpose, from wrap to wrap. A waste of wire, yes; proving a theory, yes. And here is the result:
8BXYGiM.jpg

yr7fgap.jpg

MuK9Nck.jpg

Please note that these coils were not squeezed together in any way and are exactly as they were when the screws were tightened, the only modification that was made was to center them with the shoulder of a screwdriver. Can you tell which was wrapped under tension?

In the "cold" image we can see very little difference between the coils except in the spaces between the wraps, the mid-fire image clearly shows that the coils are firing from the center out (makes sense, ala huddling together to share body heat) and the full power (50w, 3.5v with a .25Ω net build) shows that the imperfections of the build even out as the heat takes over. Not much of a question from the images is there?

Let's be honest, we all adjust our coils to some degree, even if it's just out of habit lol. The simple act of dry-firing to oxidize does most of the adjusting for us though, if done slowly and carefully.

The end result is this: we all chase that heavenly, perfect vape; the one that fills our lungs and is sweet, creamy, warm, moist and full of flavor all at the same time... the simple truth of the matter is that there are multiple ways to get there.

What we all, the advanced and experienced builders here, need to agree on is that all metal as a material has 2 basic properties: it's malleable and ductile, meaning it can be stretched and hammered flat. Those properties, along with the fact that kanthal wire resists the flow of electricity and transforms the electrical energy into heat and light is what allows is to turn liquid juice into vapor that we can inhale. Going further, the way in which that the wire is formed has only a little effect on how well this happens; even a straight length of wire will vaporize liquid juice, yes... badly. We are attempting to show that using tension to form a coil makes it more stable and effective from the time that it is formed to the time it's mounted; however, the only way to truly test this would be to form and mount a coil without *ever* removing the tension the coil was created with until all the screws are tight. I have no way to do this so as soon as the coil is cut free from the jig it's now in a resting state and free of any external tension, just as one that never had tension applied to begin with.

The idea that tension makes it easier to repeat the creation of a coil for those beginning in rebuilding is obvious, it takes the guess work out of building a coil and allows the builder to concentrate instead on where the wraps fall in reference to each other. The fact that mechanically created coils for the electrical industry are created under tension (an industry with decades more experience than us at making them) says all we need to know about the subject. Do they improve performance over a coil of the same resistance and diameter created with minimal to no tension... see my idea in the above paragraph.

The simple point I've tried to make is that there are many ways to make a uniform and practical coil that does exactly what we expect it to do, proving tension makes it better will need new technology. Those of us that others look to for perfection and innovation sitting and squabbling with words and not results does nothing more than make it harder for all involved to keep up.

Let's work this one out together.
 

Wern314

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I have become a believer. After trial and error I'm starting to create some beautiful builds. The hardest part for me has been keeping the perfect tensioned coil undisturbed while tightening up the leads on the posts. Takes a lot of practice and patience that's for sure. Obviously the thicker the resistance wire the easier.

This beautiful dual 25g Kanthal on 2.8mm ID, 8.5 wraps at .45 ohm fires up like so clean and beautiful. Mutation X V3 using IPV3, wicked with Japanese cotton.


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etherealink

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I have become a believer. After trial and error I'm starting to create some beautiful builds. The hardest part for me has been keeping the perfect tensioned coil undisturbed while tightening up the leads on the posts. Takes a lot of practice and patience that's for sure. Obviously the thicker the resistance wire the easier.

This beautiful dual 25g Kanthal on 2.8mm ID, 8.5 wraps at .45 ohm fires up like so clean and beautiful. Mutation X V3 using IPV3, wicked with Japanese cotton.


View attachment 454527View attachment 454528View attachment 454530


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Gorgeous, keep it up Wern. Glad it's working so well for you!
 

Wern314

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I'm always searching for that better vape and I love building coils. You know your a vapophile when your going through multiple 100ft spools of resistance wire and your inventory includes 20g, 22g, 24g, 25g, 26g, 27g, 28g, 29g, 30g & 32g Kanthal plus Nichrome80 in 22-24-26-28g. Lol

Once I compared screwdriver hand wrapped coil to tensioned coil keeping every variable the same it was like night and day. Watching a perfectly tensioned coil glow red from end to end instantly just puts me in my happy place. Goodbye are the days of coils glowing red from the center out due to human error.


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turbocad6

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ok, I THINK I finally got a good grasp on exactly what mactech is going on about and I THINK I finally understand what he's talking about....


I'm pretty sure I know now what it is that he is calling "the effect", I think I've known about "the effect" for a long time now, I just never knew it was called "the effect" and I never realized that others have isolated it either, I just assumed it was something that I noticed and got with most of my vapes but never knew others had a handle on it enough to have actually labeled it "the effect"

what it is I've noticed and what it is that I think mac is labeling as the effect is, when coils are wrapped within very close proximity to each other tightly butted this impedes the vapor flowing off of it in the center of the coil, it does not impede it enough to limit the vapor, no, but what it does do is impedes the vapor from actually shooting off of the coil at higher velocity. because the vapor can only escape from very minute microscopic gaps the vapor does not shoot off the same as it would from just a straight wire or a coil with gaps, even the tiny gaps that are visible enough to see are large enough that vapor will shoot out with velocity, and this vapor shot out with velocity is what most are vaping, unless they are wrapping tight coils and actually getting to "the effect"

"the effect" happens when the whole coil is tightly wound with no gaps, what happens is(my theory at least) the vapor does not shoot out of the coil throughout the whole center of the coil because of the tight gaps, the tight gaps kinda diffuse the vapor coming off of the coil through the whole center, and this is where we are picking up most of our vapor assuming you have your air hole directed at the center of the coil. the tight microscopic non visible to the naked eye gaps that do still exist allow vapor to escape still of course BUT it is escaping at less velocity and it is also shooting off much less heat in that vapor because that vapor is more like it's frothing or bubbling off of the coil VS shooting off of the coil. it is diffused, it's like the difference between being sprayed VS being finely misted... I believe the particles of vapor that are emitted from the center of a tightly wound coil is finer in particle size, yet more dense in concentration at the same time because it contains less steam at velocity, it's less diluted and it's not as hot because it is frothing or bubbling off the coil rather than shooting off the coil, this increases flavor as well as gives a cooler vape, for me I sense it as creamier and smoother yet a bit cooler too.

once you have any gaps at all, the gap winds up being like a little leak, and from this leak the vapor will shoot out, will be hotter because it contains more steam and every gap ruins "the effect" because 'the effect" is highest when it is only giving you the lower velocity frothed or bubbled diffused vapor. now I'm not necessarily saying that the vape is ACTUALLY being frothed or is actually bubbling off of the coil, I'm more using these terms to illustrate the concept of my theory and as an analogy to explain the concept.

in order to understand this I think you need to understand that there are different types of vapor created from a coil and even different types of vapor produced from the same coil at different areas of the coil. some vapor is hotter and less dense while other vapor can be less steam content yet denser particle concentration and containing smaller particles. when we adjust our coil position we are selecting which part of the coil we want our main vape to come from. for example, if you wrap a tightly wrapped micro and wick it very loosely you'll notice that vapor will shoot out from both ends with high velocity like a chimney while the whole center just emits a much lighter velocity vapor. this shooting vapor is very hot and harsh because it contains much more steam and I believe larger particles, there are actually some who like that kind of vapor, I've seen guys do builds with little tight coils sitting in a bed of wick and one end of the coil is left pointing out towards the air inlet, almost like a cannon of vapor being shot into the airstream. think they call it a dragon coil or something? that's the opposite of "the effect", yet some enjoy a hotter harsher vape with more throat hit.

I'm using this build just posted to show what I mean. this build will not achieve "the effect" because of the gaps shown, don't matter how it was wrapped, tension or not, the gaps will emit harsher hotter steam with larger particle size and be more typical to what most people actually vape, the vape will NOT be bad at all, but it will be warmer and slightly less peak flavor than a build that has achieved "the effect"

coil%20gaps_zpsb3evgndv.jpg



now in contrast, this next build does achieve "the effect". doesn't matter that it was done by just my spinning rod because there are no gaps at all, the air hits the center of the coil and drags that frothed diffused yet dense vapor up into the airstream and it winds up being a cooler, more flavorful vape, aka "the effect"

coils%20no%20gap%20copy_zpscqxeeo2n.jpg



to see how different parts of a coil emit different types of vapor just try drawing your vape from different parts of a coil, the top of a coil will give a sweeter more fine particle vape where the bottom of a coil will give a slightly harsher, larger particle vapor, if you move your coil way up harshness increases because more of your vapor is being drawn from the bottom of the coil, if you move the coil down low and only draw from the top of the coil it will be a finer, less harsh vapor, if you move your air inlet towards one end of a microcoil the vape may get hotter still because now some of your extracted vapor will come from the end of the coil where it is higher velocity and hotter, and if you draw from only one tail end of a coil you will also get a hotter harsher vape. a coil that achieves "the effect" will give a very dense yet smaller particle size cooler vapor from it's center only and this is part of the reason I do longer coils, the ensure that I'm only getting the vapor from the compressed wraps and not tainted by the hoter harsher vapor from either end....
 

MacTechVpr

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I'm always searching for that better vape and I love building coils. You know your a vapophile when your going through multiple 100ft spools of resistance wire and your inventory includes 20g, 22g, 24g, 25g, 26g, 27g, 28g, 29g, 30g & 32g Kanthal plus Nichrome80 in 22-24-26-28g. Lol

Once I compared screwdriver hand wrapped coil to tensioned coil keeping every variable the same it was like night and day. Watching a perfectly tensioned coil glow red from end to end instantly just puts me in my happy place. Goodbye are the days of coils glowing red from the center out due to human error.


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You're 2/2 on outer turns here. Any slight variation or gap, visible or not, will send temp (res) up. Your's look good. Butting with a screwdriver anytime you move, locate or stretch a lead is the only way to keep these honey's in check. Always try to inhibit separation.

Related>>>The turn color variation is an indication of slight differences turn to turn adhesion and/or heat coming on too soon, too hot. Either from too long pulses or wire/wind defect. Each fire enough to just light, ≥2 secs. You'll see it fire inside out, slowly sending turns progressively red towards the end turns. When they all hit that target color you're done. The more balanced the strain, the more likely they are to fire in unison of temp. By then you might have picked up some visible oxidation. Very pale. Not always. It's an indicator.

Back to end turns. If loose, guess what? Your priming temp's will be higher. So you're no longer curing the coil at those low figures. Res is changing and you're drawing more amps. A coil going hot is not a good thing. So if you can catch that early maybe pull it out. A ceramic tweezer in that first>second fire can be used to tighten the slack if you're hard up to get to the vape. It constrains the overall coil temp as you do so to not overheat…right! If the ensuing pulse doesn't reinforce adhesion, I'd consider another before the pair is out of balance. Or drop in the backup set.

You see, heat, contrary to the paradigm, is not the objective. Uniform distribution is, for uniform thermal flux and to avoid thermal loss (of excess to air). On the latter, you won't vaporize more than wind and wick flow permit. Excess heat beyond design and it's proper function don't mean a thing.

And that's the objective of a t.m.c., balanced thermal output.

Good luck. Well done.

:)

IMG_1191a.jpg
 

etherealink

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Oct 25, 2013
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ok, I THINK I finally got a good grasp on exactly what mactech is going on about and I THINK I finally understand what he's talking about....


I'm pretty sure I know now what it is that he is calling "the effect", I think I've known about "the effect" for a long time now, I just never knew it was called "the effect" and I never realized that others have isolated it either, I just assumed it was something that I noticed and got with most of my vapes but never knew others had a handle on it enough to have actually labeled it "the effect"

what it is I've noticed and what it is that I think mac is labeling as the effect is, when coils are wrapped within very close proximity to each other tightly butted this impedes the vapor flowing off of it in the center of the coil, it does not impede it enough to limit the vapor, no, but what it does do is impedes the vapor from actually shooting off of the coil at higher velocity. because the vapor can only escape from very minute microscopic gaps the vapor does not shoot off the same as it would from just a straight wire or a coil with gaps, even the tiny gaps that are visible enough to see are large enough that vapor will shoot out with velocity, and this vapor shot out with velocity is what most are vaping, unless they are wrapping tight coils and actually getting to "the effect"

"the effect" happens when the whole coil is tightly wound with no gaps, what happens is(my theory at least) the vapor does not shoot out of the coil throughout the whole center of the coil because of the tight gaps, the tight gaps kinda diffuse the vapor coming off of the coil through the whole center, and this is where we are picking up most of our vapor assuming you have your air hole directed at the center of the coil. the tight microscopic non visible to the naked eye gaps that do still exist allow vapor to escape still of course BUT it is escaping at less velocity and it is also shooting off much less heat in that vapor because that vapor is more like it's frothing or bubbling off of the coil VS shooting off of the coil. it is diffused, it's like the difference between being sprayed VS being finely misted... I believe the particles of vapor that are emitted from the center of a tightly wound coil is finer in particle size, yet more dense in concentration at the same time because it contains less steam at velocity, it's less diluted and it's not as hot because it is frothing or bubbling off the coil rather than shooting off the coil, this increases flavor as well as gives a cooler vape, for me I sense it as creamier and smoother yet a bit cooler too.

once you have any gaps at all, the gap winds up being like a little leak, and from this leak the vapor will shoot out, will be hotter because it contains more steam and every gap ruins "the effect" because 'the effect" is highest when it is only giving you the lower velocity frothed or bubbled diffused vapor. now I'm not necessarily saying that the vape is ACTUALLY being frothed or is actually bubbling off of the coil, I'm more using these terms to illustrate the concept of my theory and as an analogy to explain the concept.

in order to understand this I think you need to understand that there are different types of vapor created from a coil and even different types of vapor produced from the same coil at different areas of the coil. some vapor is hotter and less dense while other vapor can be less steam content yet denser particle concentration and containing smaller particles. when we adjust our coil position we are selecting which part of the coil we want our main vape to come from. for example, if you wrap a tightly wrapped micro and wick it very loosely you'll notice that vapor will shoot out from both ends with high velocity like a chimney while the whole center just emits a much lighter velocity vapor. this shooting vapor is very hot and harsh because it contains much more steam and I believe larger particles, there are actually some who like that kind of vapor, I've seen guys do builds with little tight coils sitting in a bed of wick and one end of the coil is left pointing out towards the air inlet, almost like a cannon of vapor being shot into the airstream. think they call it a dragon coil or something? that's the opposite of "the effect", yet some enjoy a hotter harsher vape with more throat hit.

I'm using this build just posted to show what I mean. this build will not achieve "the effect" because of the gaps shown, don't matter how it was wrapped, tension or not, the gaps will emit harsher hotter steam with larger particle size and be more typical to what most people actually vape, the vape will NOT be bad at all, but it will be warmer and slightly less peak flavor than a build that has achieved "the effect"

coil%20gaps_zpsb3evgndv.jpg



now in contrast, this next build does achieve "the effect". doesn't matter that it was done by just my spinning rod because there are no gaps at all, the air hits the center of the coil and drags that frothed diffused yet dense vapor up into the airstream and it winds up being a cooler, more flavorful vape, aka "the effect"

coils%20no%20gap%20copy_zpscqxeeo2n.jpg



to see how different parts of a coil emit different types of vapor just try drawing your vape from different parts of a coil, the top of a coil will give a sweeter more fine particle vape where the bottom of a coil will give a slightly harsher, larger particle vapor, if you move your coil way up harshness increases because more of your vapor is being drawn from the bottom of the coil, if you move the coil down low and only draw from the top of the coil it will be a finer, less harsh vapor, if you move your air inlet towards one end of a microcoil the vape may get hotter still because now some of your extracted vapor will come from the end of the coil where it is higher velocity and hotter, and if you draw from only one tail end of a coil you will also get a hotter harsher vape. a coil that achieves "the effect" will give a very dense yet smaller particle size cooler vapor from it's center only and this is part of the reason I do longer coils, the ensure that I'm only getting the vapor from the compressed wraps and not tainted by the hoter harsher vapor from either end....
And that folks, in a nutshell, is pretty much it. Thank you Turbo.
 

etherealink

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If anyone wants to see firsthand what turbo is talking about, get a good build and wick it. Then saturate it and turn your power down or use a lower charged battery and pulse it just enough for the vapor to start coming out. What you'll notice is the vapor starting to bubble through the surface of the coil in the spaces between the wraps, then out the ends like a freight train.

That's the effect, and only a well made and well wicked coil will get you there.

Best of luck.
 

etherealink

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Just my 2c:

While its true that heat is not the only goal, it is one of the goals we need to fill to get that truly spectacular vape that we all search for. The recipe is as follows:

 First, we need heat. Uniform and stable throughout the entire draw and even enough across the surface of the coil so that we vaporize our juice and not carmelize the sugars in the juice and gunk up the coil, but not so hot as to scorch and burn up the center of the wick (all good cloud chasers have done this a time or two lol).

 Second, we need wicking. Too tight and the coil starves for juice and by starvation burns the wick and makes a harsh vape no matter how perfect the coil... to loose and it gets the same response by not being able to make full contact with the coil, the response is once again a harsh vape and an easily gunked up coil that needs work in short order. It's a fine balance on it's own that takes time to get right.

 Third, we need airflow. A coil will still vaporize the juice without it (think of the filament in a lightbulb - just a resistance coil inside a vacuum), but will be remarkably hot and harsh - so, the airflow helps to draw down the heat in the vapor itself and keep the coil near "running temperature" and avoid burning both juice and wick.

 Fourth and finally, we need power to the coils. Whether that comes from a regulated or unregulated mod it has to match the first 3 parts of the formula to truly make the vape shine. Power to the coils comes from matching both the power from the mod and the resistance of the build itself.

Take, for example the small airflow of the stock Igo-w and the Doge with it's massive cyclops airholes. Taking the builds that are perfect in each and switching them from one to another one will give a very unsatisfying vape for simple reasons of air-to-heat-to-vapor mix. If that by itself is too far off, even the best coil will appear to be a failure.

If you can find one, ask one of the pro's that builds in a shop for other people and tell them what you are putting the build into and what you want it to do. If they are any good, they will match the resistance and power/heat to the airflow the rda offers to get the optimum mix of vapor, heat and air.

When this is executed with a well-built coil that is capable of "the effect" Turbo just described... then, welcome to vape heaven, at any power setting or resistance.

The other variables, short of air, can be adjusted (even wick can be easily replaced) yet a poor coil cannot be made into a great one, no matter how much we fiddle and adjust.

Tension takes the variable of the human factor out of building a coil and makes for very predictable results every time, even for a beginner... it's not the only way to get a great coil, but done well it never fails. Then it's just a matter of matching the other 3 variables to taste and your vape is not only customized to your liking but is spectacular.

Best of luck folks.
 

turbocad6

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just did a proof of concept for myself, I spread one coil apart. as expected the vape became a bit warmer and a bit harsher. I can't tell if it's making more or less volume of vapor tbh. still vapes great, I'd say overall it might feel a bit "stronger" of a vape, maybe it's the slight increase in harshness, it's not quite as smooth, but it's still a great vape. it still has some of the creamy vape element to it because now half of the vape has "the effect" blended with half that don't

20150501_185524_zpsaeucbcvi.jpg



in the past I used to pair 2 different coils a lot to get a symphony type deal going, different coils vape differently of course and as long as both coils are the same resistance you can use mismatched coils on purpose. I stopped bothering doing that now but that was back when I was studying and learning the differences between coils and how they're set up and trying different combos and doing experiments to learn how to tune my vape
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,411
Hollywood (Beach), FL
just did a proof of concept for myself, I spread one coil apart. as expected the vape became a bit warmer and a bit harsher. I can't tell if it's making more or less volume of vapor tbh. still vapes great, I'd say overall it might feel a bit "stronger" of a vape, maybe it's the slight increase in harshness, it's not quite as smooth, but it's still a great vape. it still has some of the creamy vape element to it because now half of the vape has "the effect" blended with half that don't

20150501_185524_zpsaeucbcvi.jpg



in the past I used to pair 2 different coils a lot to get a symphony type deal going, different coils vape differently of course and as long as both coils are the same resistance you can use mismatched coils on purpose. I stopped bothering doing that now but that was back when I was studying and learning the differences between coils and how they're set up and trying different combos and doing experiments to learn how to tune my vape

Excellent but extreme example. I'm surprised it didn't go way hot (you're not touching that edge of the deck?). Look, open winds don't concentrate heat. If pumped hard with high voltage they'll issue great volume. More than the wicking can deliver often venting heat and heating what's been vaporized. Built quite a few, mostly multi-wire with large twisted variations my favorite. Yes the high power will issue more vapor and flavor. Downside the heat factor which many love as they associate this with throat hit. But if that's what you crave there's other ways to get it in the recipe and devote that how power to the output instead.

Any pics of that beast firing'?

@turbocad6 love to see ya hold on to that a few days see how it's vapin'. My prediction'd be watch that gapped end turn

Good luck!

:)
 

etherealink

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 25, 2013
1,304
3,035
45
Junction, IL
Tonight's challenge: wrap your best hand-wrapped coil (no jig or gizmos) and mount it next to your best coil from your favorite method. Then post a pic of the results... the proof is in the pic.

No squeezing or working the coil aside from centering and adjusting for vertical alignment.

Most of us won't even vape these, but we all will be curious as to the result.

Best of luck folks!
 

Johntodd

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 18, 2011
676
833
USA
in the past I used to pair 2 different coils a lot to get a symphony type deal going, different coils vape differently of course and as long as both coils are the same resistance you can use mismatched coils on purpose.

Wow! Tell me more! I just started a thread on this:

Asymmetric dual coils? | E-Cigarette Forum

Please drop by and share.
Thanks!
-Johntodd
 

etherealink

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 25, 2013
1,304
3,035
45
Junction, IL
Ok, another episode of "Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is"!

The challenge: put your best hand-wrapped coil next to your best coil of your favorite method. No squeezing, no fixing... center and adjust vertically *only*!

Here is my result:
yvKshLM.jpg

33wgVCK.jpg

uFOWb1e.jpg


All 8/7 wrapped 22ga A1, .25Ω net d/c from a 3mm (1/8") mandrel. The bottom hand-wrapped and the top wrapped under 10lbs of static tension from hanging weight.

The difference is clear. Strain and the consistency of strain is a killer for the screwdriver method we all grew up on. Can it be achieved by more than one way? I believe yes, its up to those of you with more experience in other methods to prove it.

Let the odds be ever in *our* favor!
 

xpen

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 18, 2012
834
1,274
Italy
This is the first time I've posted something in this thread, I think..
I've been reading it on and off for a while, scratching my head in fact because many times it looked to me very much like an audiophiles thread - if you know what I mean.
To the point: I've tried building a tensioned micro/mini/macro coil a number of times, but I've failed to notice any significant ROI for the time, effort and profanity spent on it.
I know, that sure means I wasn't good at it - which is definitely true, yet somehow another symptom of audiophilia to me :D
But I like the company, so here I am - dodging multi-pages posts like plague and still trying to make a sense out of it all.. [emoji6]
 
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