Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[AllPepperS]

All good stuff, makes you think doesn't it. Well, I was messing with the wire in the vice grips under my leg with the wire in my sort of hybrid pin vice. I stretched the wire and plucked it to hear the sound and tried to complete a coil maintaining the the same sound. It was a sound that made you feel there was a good bit of tension on the wire, higher pitch. I wasn't able to do it so Iknow it probably won't fire consistently. My best success was on the Gizmo using the vice grips to apply tension and maintain what I perceived to be more even tension. As far as just looking at the coil under the magnifying glass it was the first one I have done that I could not see any light through, the coils appeared very tight and uniform. I haven't had a chance to mount it yet. It is a quest, I can sort of see why Russ went the quick and dirty, if it works for you do it. I am going to get the coil master out (yes, I do have one from a while ago, but I never used it much) and do some on it. I need to compare, cause my time is getting shorter and shorter to devote to rebuilding my small collection of RDAs. Not giving up, just have to find something sort of simple and fairly quick. Just my situation.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Even if we are getting too complex about it I think the advantages here is having a self winding machine with minimal human intervention

Well I sure as heck hope one of these bright young peeps come up with somethin'. Windin' twisted and parallel 30awg's puttin' a strain on me.



Good luck all.

 

[Skepticide]

Made a few tweaks to the concept...

 

[etherealink]

All good stuff, makes you think doesn't it. Well, I was messing with the wire in the vice grips under my leg with the wire in my sort of hybrid pin vice. I stretched the wire and plucked it to hear the sound and tried to complete a coil maintaining the the same sound. It was a sound that made you feel there was a good bit of tension on the wire, higher pitch. I wasn't able to do it so Iknow it probably won't fire consistently. My best success was on the Gizmo using the vice grips to apply tension and maintain what I perceived to be more even tension. As far as just looking at the coil under the magnifying glass it was the first one I have done that I could not see any light through, the coils appeared very tight and uniform. I haven't had a chance to mount it yet. It is a quest, I can sort of see why Russ went the quick and dirty, if it works for you do it. I am going to get the coil master out (yes, I do have one from a while ago, but I never used it much) and do some on it. I need to compare, cause my time is getting shorter and shorter to devote to rebuilding my small collection of RDAs. Not giving up, just have to find something sort of simple and fairly quick. Just my situation.

Pepper,

That's basically what I do when I'm not testing something. Pull down on the vice grips to go for consistent tension, still running a pair like that at 80w with a .34Ω d/c build after 3 weeks.

Its a learning curve but it does work.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Made a few tweaks to the concept...

Want to really go overboard? Change out those springs for pneumatic cylinders piped to an air reservoir with a pressure gauge and voila, instant constant tension (within a very small percentage with the reservoir volume considerably larger than the cylinder volume) that is measurable and repeatable. Might as well go for all the gusto.

 

[Skepticide]

Want to really go overboard? Change out those springs for pneumatic cylinders piped to an air reservoir with a pressure gauge and voila, instant constant tension (within a very small percentage with the reservoir volume considerably larger than the cylinder volume) that is measurable and repeatable. Might as well go for all the gusto.

Awesome suggestion, but I really don't want to go overboard. I'm not a mechanical engineer, just putting an idea out there to see if it takes.

 

[etherealink]

Well said Mundy, when that hits stores I'm engraving your name on it

 

[oplholik]

Wonder what the coil winders look like that the mfgrs. use? Now don't show me rows of white jacketed Chinese workers sitting in a sterile room.

 

[laurie9300]

Wonder what the coil winders look like that the mfgrs. use? Now don't show me rows of white jacketed Chinese workers sitting in a sterile room.

 

[Mactavish]

Wonder what the coil winders look like that the mfgrs. use? Now don't show me rows of white jacketed Chinese workers sitting in a sterile room.

Look up PBusardo at Tasteyourjuice.com. He has 3 long videos from his China visit, Aspire, Kanger factories. In one of them they show and talk about the robot machines that spin the coils in seconds. Seems someone posted before me with a quick video, still check out his China videos, very interesting stuff.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Wonder what the coil winders look like that the mfgrs. use? Now don't show me rows of white jacketed Chinese workers sitting in a sterile room.

Finally, to Kanger's credit, they discovered what (NiCr) symmetry is.

Good luck all.

 

[aldenf]

Want to really go overboard? Change out those springs for pneumatic cylinders piped to an air reservoir with a pressure gauge and voila, instant constant tension (within a very small percentage with the reservoir volume considerably larger than the cylinder volume) that is measurable and repeatable. Might as well go for all the gusto.

Although over-engineered for a simple desktop winder, pneumatic or hydraulic cylinders would almost be necessary unless we can find extremely stiff small diameter springs. The problem I see is that the springs would compress while pre-tensioning the wire, not allowing for further compression as the coil is wound. This would also prevent the ends from traveling as the wire is wound around the mandrel. The tension system would also have to be adjustable for different gauges of wire.

Tension winding, while preferred, is far too difficult for many (most?) vapers to perform. It's a huge hurdle for those with dexterity/strength issues due to age or malady. Winding on a pin vice or cigamajig, directly off the spool, has far too steep of a learning curve unless one has a "touch" developed from other experiences and still requires significant wrist and forearm strength. The gizmo concept requires that a rig be set up and still demands consistent tension that requires a "touch".

Unless a gadget like the Coil Master is sufficient for our purposes or an affordable self-winding coiler is released, I fear far too many vapors will be left out in the cold, far from the "effect". I'm afraid much of what we're discussing, while scientifically accurate and rather interesting (to us), falls into the academic category. Currently, there is no easy way to tension wind accurately, repeatably and affordably.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Well said Mundy, when that hits stores I'm engraving your name on it

Well, we don't really need to worry about that. There's just not a market for a 3 digit coil winder for personal use.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Although over-engineered for a simple desktop winder, pneumatic or hydraulic cylinders would almost be necessary unless we can find extremely stiff small diameter springs. The problem I see is that the springs would compress while pre-tensioning the wire, not allowing for further compression as the coil is wound. This would also prevent the ends from traveling as the wire is wound around the mandrel.

Or if you really want to up the game and spend some major dough, a constant torque motor and controller. (Like the ones used on tape and VCR decks for the wind and rewind spindles but much larger, lots of $, and usually water cooled)

 

[Aal_]

Or if you really want to up the game and spend some major dough, a constant torque motor and controller. (Like the ones used on tape and VCR decks for the wind and rewind spindles but much larger, lots of $, and usually water cooled)

Actually I'm happy with the device turbo created some pages back. Have you seen the videos?

 

[oplholik]

Interesting video of that China visit, tho I have only watched the Kanger visit so far. They do make a bunch of coils in a day.

 

[Mactavish]

Interesting video of that China visit, tho I have only watched the Kanger visit so far. They do make a bunch of coils in a day.

While I forget how many coils they mentioned the machine produces I do remember being blown away by that number. I know vaping popularity has grown a lot, but where are all these cools going?

 

[Skepticide]

Although over-engineered for a simple desktop winder, pneumatic or hydraulic cylinders would almost be necessary unless we can find extremely stiff small diameter springs. The problem I see is that the springs would compress while pre-tensioning the wire, not allowing for further compression as the coil is wound. This would also prevent the ends from traveling as the wire is wound around the mandrel. The tension system would also have to be adjustable for different gauges of wire.

This is what I was trying to account for in the updated concept illustration (above, on this page). Those yellow cylinders are bolts to adjust tension on the coils, so the wire gauges would be marked on those dials. Basically, you set the tension bolts based on how tight the wire should be on your final wrap, not the first. Thus, the setup procedure would be:

1.) Adjust tension dials to correct wire gauge
2.) Mount wire on anchors
3.) Use tuning key (in blue) to tighten the wire as far as it will go WITHOUT moving the springs

#3 is the important thing here. The purpose of the tuning key is to mount the wire precisely to its lowest tension threshold, whereas the tensioning bolts let you adjust how much the spring will give as the wire is pulled, effectively setting the upper threshold.

This does slightly go against the premise of TMCs, since we can't constantly sample/adjust as we wrap, but I posit here that the wrapping method changes things. Just about every coil that is made by hand, including the ones in the TMC how-to videos, is wrapped from one side to the other with one rotating arm. Because of this, variable strain on the wire will result in uneven distribution of tension in the coil. However, when you wrap from BOTH ends as with this concept two-arm machine, the coil emerges from the inside out rather than from one side to the other. This, I believe, will result in even distribution and eliminate the need for constant polling.

 

[Mactavish]

You keep talking like that and you're going to give Mac a "woody"!

 

[aldenf]

This is what I was trying to account for in the updated concept illustration (above, on this page). Those yellow cylinders are bolts to adjust tension on the coils, so the wire gauges would be marked on those dials. Basically, you set the tension bolts based on how tight the wire should be on your final wrap, not the first.

Makes sense to me. But then we'll need to address weakening springs, recalibration and their eventual replacement. I definitely think you might be onto something by wrapping from the inside-out. Let us know if you get a prototype built.

It's a great experiment for a "maker". But I don't see how it can be engineered, manufactured and retailed for $25 or less. Hardcore enthusiasts will suck it up for $75. Any more than $25 and I think it will be a tough sell to the masses. Just my