The Abomination of Desolation?
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If I am understanding what the rift is about... Am I hearing replacement theology? I.E. that Christian's have replaced the Jews as God's chosen?
May seem like semantics, but Christian's have been added to Gods chosen, not replaced anyone. There was a primary time of the Jews in which Gentiles were also excepted, and now we are in the time of the Gentiles in which Jews are also excepted. Right now the Jews as a nation have no choice but to disbelieve because God Himself has caused a partial hardening of their hearts until the fullness of the Gentiles is completed. Then He will reopen Israel's eyes and cause them to believe. Then all of Israel will be saved (The whole of Spiritual Israel).
There has been no replacement, only an inclusion.
May seem like semantics, but Christian's have been added to Gods chosen, not replaced anyone. There was a primary time of the Jews in which Gentiles were also excepted, and now we are in the time of the Gentiles in which Jews are also excepted. Right now the Jews as a nation have no choice but to disbelieve because God Himself has caused a partial hardening of their hearts until the fullness of the Gentiles is completed. Then He will reopen Israel's eyes and cause them to believe. Then all of Israel will be saved (The whole of Spiritual Israel).
There has been no replacement, only an inclusion.
You are hearing what is being "called" replacement theology. The fact (biblical fact) is that Paul says it is not so. Paul makes a clear example speaking of himself in Romans 11. Any individual can be saved regardless....there will be no mass national salvation. Let's not forget that the early church was made up of mostly Jews and was headquartered in Jerusalem. What about those hearts? Were they some special Jew that God couldn't blind or didn't want to blind? Perhaps God let a few through the cracks? Back to the parable of fertile soils? The fullness of the gentiles will not be complete until the 2nd coming. I have explained this in answer 10. There is no scriptural basis for your conclusion.
I'm confused and will have to make time later to go over all of this so I can understand the whole context.
(Here) You start by saying that Paul taught no replacement (my understanding also). Everything in the middle I also agree with. But you end by saying my conclusion (There has been no replacement, only an inclusion.) is wrong.
(Let me know if I'm dissecting your intentions wrong.) This logically leads me to think that you believe:
There is no replacement (Jews are still God's chosen).
We are not included (at least in those considered to be God's chosen people).
This confuses me and I am positive I'm "reading this wrong" and is not what you intend so please shed light. I could have sworn you were arguing FOR replacement prior to this message but here state that Paul didn't teach that.
Right E. It is being called something for the sake of a label. Paul did not teach the "grafting out or in" of the Jewish nation. Paul uses himself as an example of those that can be saved. Sorry for the confusion...I too am in a hurry and perhaps was not clear. I'm working on a couple of things for this evening.
Romans 11:17-24
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
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I am saved by grace through faith. But how would I recognize grace unless I had the law.
So you're saying that God DIDN'T know that he was going to be "slapped in the face" or that He knew and then "covered up His mistake by including the gentiles.
You "forgot" the rest of the quote. Hebrews 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; If the law was no longer important why would He write it on our hearts? Because unless we know the law, we will not recognize either sin or the need for a savior!
The temple was much more than just a center to "house" the law. It was the place of worship of God for the Jews. It would indeed be a sacrilege for members of the church to build a temple because of Christ's death, but not all Jews have become Christians. They will be doing what God told them to do.
I also believe that right now that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God. I also believe that He will come back to put an end to His enemies. After He does, the New Jerusalem will come down and we read in Revelation 21:22-24
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m]
Sorry guys, my Tapatalk was screwy last nite and I realize now that my post in reply to you SG only showed your quote. I thank Chimney for taking over, this is exactly the verse in which I had responded with before it got lost forever in cyberspace, lol!
I never said that they were "grafted out", they were broken off.....What I had said (in my lost cyberspace post) was that Jesus came from God, out of God's chosen race....Israel is "native" we are "wild", now if Israel is broken off (because God gave them a spirit of stupor) until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, how much easier will they be grafted back in to their own branch?
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
Question: Why would Paul write that he did not want us to be ignorant nor concieted about our position vs Israel's?
This is all part of God's divine plan for us ALL, and it is through Jesus that we are all saved...
33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
I wholeheartedly agree that we "the Gentiles" are also chosen, but Israel was chosen first and God has not forgotten his covenant with his first choice, but has included us in the promise, we have not taken the place of his chosen people...they are the natural branch and we are adopted and for that I am ever so grateful to both God and Israel.
I never said that they were "grafted out", they were broken off.....What I had said (in my lost cyberspace post) was that Jesus came from God, out of God's chosen race....Israel is "native" we are "wild", now if Israel is broken off (because God gave them a spirit of stupor) until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, how much easier will they be grafted back in to their own branch?
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
Question: Why would Paul write that he did not want us to be ignorant nor concieted about our position vs Israel's?
This is all part of God's divine plan for us ALL, and it is through Jesus that we are all saved...
33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
I wholeheartedly agree that we "the Gentiles" are also chosen, but Israel was chosen first and God has not forgotten his covenant with his first choice, but has included us in the promise, we have not taken the place of his chosen people...they are the natural branch and we are adopted and for that I am ever so grateful to both God and Israel.
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SG is correct when he states we are all ONE in Christ Jesus... we are the New Israel..
at the same time there is still too much scripture 'supporting' Israel as a Covenant Nation and People between God and Abraham's seed; (The one below is enough for me)
Though I scatter them among the peoples, yet in distant lands they will remember me. They and their children will survive, and they will return. I will bring them back from Egypt and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon, and there will not be room enough for them. (Zech. 10:9-11)
Lebanon is even included in the above scripture.. looks like God is even going to expand Israel's borders soon.... (lol)
at the same time there is still too much scripture 'supporting' Israel as a Covenant Nation and People between God and Abraham's seed; (The one below is enough for me)
Though I scatter them among the peoples, yet in distant lands they will remember me. They and their children will survive, and they will return. I will bring them back from Egypt and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon, and there will not be room enough for them. (Zech. 10:9-11)
Lebanon is even included in the above scripture.. looks like God is even going to expand Israel's borders soon.... (lol)
You are completely out of context with the biggest majority of this. The Hebrews quote says exactly the opposite of your understanding. Paul within the context of Hebrews is trying to keep people from returning to the law. Jews in fact.
Do not confuse the law with the promise. Did God promise the law or the seed? They are not one and the same.
Go back a see what the "mystery" is. I'll cover much of this later today or perhaps by morning. Context is of vital importance here.
Yes, Paul doesn't want the Jews in the church to go back to the laws of Moses (such as performing the sacrifices), but he wasn't saying that the "decalogue" or ten commandments were no longer valid. Jesus did not teach this, nor did Paul. Paul made a point in Romans to say that these laws were necessary to point out sin. Without knowledge that we have sinned, then why would anyone need a savior?
I know that the law is not the promise. But I also know that if God wrote the law on our hearts that the law is also important.
I have seen the mystery and all it's beauty, it is woven throughout scripture and supports God's original choice Israel. We are all in his divine plan, and through the lineage of his chosen people I have salvation and his first choice does....all the more. How beautiful God's union is to us all.
Romans 11:18 …. do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
The olive tree, the roots = the patriarchs, the branches = the 12 tribes and those who by birth are the seed of Abraham
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Gentiles have not replaced the original or native tree....Gentiles have been grafted into the orginal tree so that we may partake together of God's divine plan, that we may be one in him.
Eph 2:19 Now, therefore, you are NO LONGER STRANGERS and FOREIGNERS, but FELLOW CITIZENS with the saints and members of the household of God,
Romans 11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
My understanding of their fall...broken or cut off
Romans 11:15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but .............. LIFE FROM THE DEAD ?
We are all dead in our sins until we accept Christ....Christ came from the original tree...how much respect and honor should we have for the original tree that supports us?
If indeeed it's true that because God caused a stupor to fall on his chosen people so that we Gentiles could come in, then should we not see that He has great plans for the ones he allowed this to happen to? Or does he go against everything he has ever shown us in scripture and finally just gives up on his chosen people and replaces them altogether? I think not!
God has shown us over and over in scripture just how great his mercy and love extends, much further than any of us can conceive.
If anything, we Gentiles should be praying for those branches that have been broken off, interceding as Moses did. Had Moses not interceded for Israel, God had promised to make him a great nation.
I liken replacement theology to Moses accepting God's offer to make a new nation from him and never interceding for Israel.
The Lord spoke further to me, saying, ‘I have seen this people, and indeed, it is a stubborn people. 14‘Let Me alone, that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven; and I will make of you a nation mightier and greater than they,'" (Deuteronomy 9:13-14).
What a different story we would have today had Moses taken God up on his offer.
Instead he interceded. Did God know that Moses would intercede? ABSOLUTELY! Did God truly repent? NO! He didn't have to, he knows everything from the foundation of the world...we don't need to tell him anything. HE LOOKS UPON OUR HEARTS! He knew Moses' heart AND that Moses WOULD intercede, that's why God chose HIM.
Here is the heart of Moses
"Turn from Thy burning anger and change Thy mind about doing harm to Thy people. 13“Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Thy servants to whom Thou didst swear by Thyself, and didst say to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’” 14So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people," (Exodus 32:12-14, NASB).
We should do no less than Moses.
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You say we are one? Jew and Gentile? This seems to be the argument Paul makes....why then would we be separated again? Why would there again be a wall of partition? I will clearly explain the doctrine you adhere in the next day or so. I'm gathering that many who support it don't really know or understand it. Not a slight nor anything of the sort but I will show you gaping holes in that which is proclaimed to be true. Be patient...it's coming.
Turn about is fair play brother...I say that many who support your stance really don't know or understand it and it's not a slight nor anything of the sort, but there are some gaping holes in what you proclaim to be true.
BUT...then again, maybe we are all holey
Well, if being grafted into the original tree doesn't make us one, I don't know what will.....They may be broken off, dead on the ground RIGHT NOW (all on account of us'ns)...but there will be a day when they are grafted back in...and what a glorious day that will be!
hugs to the brother
Ephesians 3
6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
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Turn about is fair play brother...I say that many who support your stance really don't know or understand it and it's not a slight nor anything of the sort, but there are some gaping holes in what you proclaim to be true.
BUT...then again, maybe we are all holey
Well, if being grafted into the original tree doesn't make us one, I don't know what will.....They may be broken off, dead on the ground RIGHT NOW (all on account of us'ns)...but there will be a day when they are grafted back in...and what a glorious day that will be!
hugs to the brother
Ephesians 3
6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
we is usn's that's the point....never to be separated again. I'll have plenty for you to answer shortly.
I will highlight a series of dispensational distortions that I feel to be harmful to a balanced Christian worldview. Each of these errors impacts our understanding of Christ and His ministry.
Christ’s Rule Is Future
First, dispensationalism denies the contemporary presence of Christ’s Kingdom. Wayne House and Thomas Ice write, “Whatever dynamic God has given believers today does not mean that the Messianic kingdom is here. We see it as totally future.”
The dispensational view requires Christ’s physical presence on earth to rule over His Kingdom. Dispensationalists do not accept the Reformed notion that Christ’s Kingdom and Kingship are both spiritual. They often complain: “You cannot have the Kingdom present when the King is absent.” This argument has a persuasive impact upon first hearing. But its force is only felt by those who do not carefully think through the implications of the assertion. The beauty of this argument is truly only skin deep.
An immediate problem with this statement is that Satan has an evil kingdom present
Matt. 12:26-and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
John 12:31-Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out ,
John 14:30-I will no more speak much with you, for the prince of the world cometh: and he hath nothing in me ,
John 16:11-of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged
even though he is only spiritually present (Eph. 2:2; 2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 6:12). But a more serious problem is that Christ clearly taught that He established His Kingdom when He came to earth. Let us survey some of the evidence.
In Mark 1:15, early in His ministry, Christ says: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.” Notice that the prophetically decreed time had come; the Kingdom was declared near at hand — not 2000 (or more!) years away. A little later in His ministry, as He exercises power over Satan, the Lord notes: “If I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you” (Matt. 12:28). And we know that He did cast out devils by the Spirit of God, so then by logical deduction Christ Himself has declared that His Kingdom has come.
Christ even prophesied that its coming with great power would be witnessed by His hearers: “And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power” (Mark 9:1). There seems to be a distinction necessary here between the Kingdom’s “coming” (which in Luke 17:20–21 is both subtle and present) and the Kingdom’s coming “with power” (which in the destruction of the temple was dramatic and future, from Christ’s perspective).
There seems no way around the fact that some who literally stood in Jesus’ presence would live (“not taste of death”) until that time, although by that very expression it is implied that some would, in fact, taste death before that event. Consequently, Christ taught that the Kingdom’s coming “with power” would occur in that generation, even though it would be somewhat later than when Jesus spoke (and, hence, not the Transfiguration of only six days later).
In Colossians 1:13 Paul writes of our present salvation: “He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.” John agrees in Revelation 1:6, 9: “And He hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father … I John, who also am your brother, and companion in the tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ.”
In fact, we are now ruling with Christ, for Paul says in Ephesians 2:6: He “hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (cf. Rom. 6:5, 8:17; Col. 2:13, 3:1–3; Rev. 20:4).
Dispensationalism distorts Christ’s teaching about the coming of His Kingdom, which was the dramatic point of His entire ministry. In other words, a major reason for Christ’s first coming — to be gloriously enthroned as Messianic King (Isa. 9:6, 7; Luke 24:26; John 12:23, 17:5, 18:37; Acts 2:30–34; 1 Pet. 1:11) — is lost in this doctrine.
Christ’s Rule Is Political
Second, dispensationalism poses a carnal and political kingdom, rather than a spiritual and redemptive one. Dispensationalism has Christ on a physical throne in earthly Jerusalem administering the day-to-day political and bureaucratic affairs of the world. Citing House and Ice again, we learn: “Then God’s will in heaven will be brought to earth. But not until Christ rules physically from Jerusalem.”
But Christ and the New Testament writers clearly discount such when they teach that His Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom rooted in the heart (although not denying its external impact). In Luke 17:20–21 Christ contradicted the Zionist tendencies of the Pharisees when He denied a future earthly, political kingdom introduced by catastrophic intervention: “When he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!, for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you”. Paul picks up on and promotes the spiritual nature of the Kingdom when he writes that “the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost” (Rom. 14:17).
When Christ stood before Pilate, He repeated the same truth. In John 18:36 we read: “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight.” His was not a political kingdom like that of Caesar’s, requiring an army. This probably explains why He asked Pilate where he got his information (John 18:33, 34). Had he heard it from the Jews, Pilate would have heard a misconception of the nature of the Kingdom (see John 6:15); had he heard Jesus say it, he should have known what Jesus intended.
Dispensationalism discounts the spiritual glory of Christ’s present rule by denying it. And this despite the Biblical record.
Christ’s Second Humiliation
Third, dispensationalism has Christ endure a second humiliation by leaving heaven (which is His throne) to return to rule on earth (which is His footstool) only to finally have His personal Kingdom rule rebelled against. One major aspect of His humiliation was His dwelling in the dust of the earth and suffering abuse during His ministry. House and Ice write that in the postmillennial view, “Messiah is in heaven and only present mystically in his kingdom. His absence from the earth during his kingdom reign robs Messiah of his moment of earthly glory and exaltation.”
But Scripture teaches of Christ’s return to heaven that it is not a place where He is robbed! We must understand the majestic glory that is His, which issues from His ascension into heaven. Did He not pray to the Father just before the cross: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17:5)? He was preparing to leave the earth to enter heaven. He considered that to be glorious, not a robbery of glory!
Ephesians 1:20–22 speaks of His glorious condition in heaven: “Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet and gave him to be the head over all things to the church.” The same concept is repeated in Philippians 2:9: “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.” 1 Peter 3:22 agrees: “Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
According to dispensationalism, this is a robbery of His glory!
What’s worse is that the “moment of glory” Christ has during His millennial rule ends up in chaos and rebellion! J. Dwight Pentecost states that toward the end of the millennial Kingdom Satan “goes forth to deceive the nations, in order to lead a final revolt against the theocracy of God.” Pentecost admits that “there is no understanding how a multitude, ‘the number of whom is as the sand of the sea’ … could revolt against the Lord Jesus Christ, when they have lived under His beneficence all their lives.”
As John F. Walvoord puts it: “Thus the last gigantic rebellion of man develops against God’s sovereign rule in which the wicked meet their Waterloo. As the battle is joined in Rev. 20:9, the great host led by Satan and coming from all directions compasses the camp of the saints. The word for ‘camp’ … seems to refer to the city of Jerusalem itself which is described as ‘the beloved city.’”
According to dispensationalism, Christ’s “moment of glory” ends in chaos and ultimate failure! Dispensationalism’s “moment of glory” for Jesus puts Him back in the dust of the earth so that He might personally, physically administer a kingdom that eventually revolts against Him and attacks Him and His capitol.
The Church in Prophecy
In dispensationalism the church is deemed a new and unprophesied aside to God's major plan for the Jews. John Walvoord writes of the church: "It becomes apparent that a new thing has been formed—the body of Christ. It did not exist before Pentecost, as there was no work of the baptism of the Spirit to form it. The concept of the body is foreign to the Old Testament and to Israel's promises. Something new had begun … There is good evidence that the age itself is a parenthesis in the divine program of God as it was revealed in the Old Testament … The present age [is] an unexpected and unpredicted parenthesis as far as Old Testament prophecy is concerned."
In this statement a leading dispensationalist clearly asserts that God had a special, Jewish program in operation in the Old Testament. It is obvious, also, that from the dispensational view the present church age of Jew and Gentile union in one body was unknown in the Old Testament and that the church age is but an interruption of that program.
Most evangelical scholars, however, see the New Testament phase of the church as continuous with and a culmination or fruition of God's history-long redemptive labor. Indeed, when we look into the New Testament, we discover references to the Old Testament prophets' knowledge of the "church age."
For instance, Ephesians 3:3, 5–6 reads: "By revelation he made known unto me the mystery … which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ."
In Romans 16:25–26 Paul speaks of "the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith."
In both of these passages Paul points out that the "mystery" of Gentile salvation was hidden only from the Gentiles (whom, in Ephesians 3, Paul calls "the sons of men"), not from the Old Testament prophets. After all, he defends his doctrine of the mystery from "the scriptures of the prophets." Paul teaches us that the "mystery" is now “made manifest" to "all nations"—not just to Israel.
In Luke 24:44–47 the Lord teaches that it is necessary for Him to die in order to fulfill Scripture in bringing salvation to the Gentiles: "All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations."
The distinction between Jew and Gentile has forever been done away with. Paul points out this glorious truth in Ephesians 2:11–16:
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh … at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.
Thus, because of Christ's gracious redemptive work, "there is neither Jew nor Greek … for ye are all one in Christ" (Gal. 3:28) and "there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision" (Col. 3:11). Dispensationalists see this as but a temporary parenthesis in God's plan. Paul presents it quite differently.
The Gospel and the Jews
In dispensationalism the church's labor among the Jews must always be a relative failure. During the future Tribulation, however, the gospel will be suddenly and dramatically successful among the Jews—after all Christians and the Holy Spirit are removed from the world.
Dispensational scholar Charles Ryrie speaks of the removal of the Holy Spirit and the church from the earth prior to the Tribulation: "If the restrainer, the Holy Spirit, is to be removed before the tribulation … then the Church also must be taken out of the world." Pentecost mentions the conversion of "all Israel" during that Tribulation: "God uses many different means to bring 'all Israel' to salvation during the seventieth week."
Yet the Scriptures teach that one of the glorious advances of the New Testament era is the magnified presence of the Holy Spirit, who will bring great and powerful blessings attending to the gospel: "Thus it is written … that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem … But tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:46–47, 49).
In Acts 1:8 the Lord instructs his disciples: "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you." They were prepared for this in Acts 2:17, 21: "I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh … And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". In fact, the Great Commission teaches that until the end of the age Christ will be with us to see that we "make disciples of" and baptize "all the nations" (Matt. 28:19 NKJV). This surely does not exclude the Jews.
The Sacrificial System
According to dispensationalism, the Temple and sacrificial system will be re-instituted in the future millennial kingdom (though dispensationalists see this ministry as only memorial). Ryrie writes: "The temple is yet to be built and the sacrificial system reestablished during the millennium." This is based on dispensationalism's literalistic understanding of Ezekiel 40ff.
But the New Testament teaches the temple being built is spiritual. Thus, dispensationalism involves a serious retrogression in the flow of redemptive history and the outworking of salvation.
First Corinthians 3:16 reads: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?"
First Corinthians 6:19 asks: "Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost?"
Second Corinthians 6:16 concurs: "Ye are the temple of the living God."
Paul speaks of this age-long building of this temple in Ephesians 2:21–22: It "groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord" for we "are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." Each of us is a living stone, for 1 Peter 2:5 teaches: "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house."
Dispensational Zionism
The future dispensational kingdom involves a racial prejudice favoring the Jews above even saved Gentiles during the millennium. As such, it re-introduces the distinction between Jew and Gentile and replaces faith with race as a basis for divine favor. Consider the following citations from leading dispensationalists:
Ryrie: "Three groups of people will be related to the millennial government. Israel, regathered and turned to the Lord in salvation, will be exalted, blessed, and favored throughout the period."
Pentecost: "The Gentiles will be Israel's servants during that age … The Gentiles that are in the millennium will have experienced conversion prior to admission."
Walvoord speaks of " Israel's restoration and exaltation in the millennial kingdom."
Herman Hoyt (past president of Grace Theological Seminary) puts it quite starkly: "The redeemed living nation of Israel, regenerated and regathered to the land, will be head over all thenations of earth … So he exalts them above the Gentile nations … On the lowest level there are the saved, living, Gentile nations."
Popular prophecy writer Dave Hunt comments: "The Messiah ruling the world from the throne of David and with national Israel restored to its place of supremacy over the nations."
However, with the establishment of the New Testament phase of the church, the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been abolished. This was the whole point of Peter's vision of the sheet filled with unclean animals in Acts 10: what God has called clean, let no man call unclean. Thus, there is no separate Jewish program exalting them over saved Gentiles.
The church, which includes Jew and Gentile in one body, is the fruition and culmination of God's promises to the Jews. In evidence of this, we should note that Christians are called by distinctively Jewish names in the New Testament. "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Rom. 2:29). Christians are called "the circumcision" (Phil. 3:3), "the children" and "Abraham’s seed" (Gal. 3:7, 29), the " Jerusalem which is above" and the "children of the promise" (Gal. 4:26, 28). In fact, Christians compose "the Israel of God" for we are a "new creature" regarding which "circumcision availeth [nothing]" (Gal. 6:15, 16).
I'll get into Ephesians later.
Christ’s Rule Is Future
First, dispensationalism denies the contemporary presence of Christ’s Kingdom. Wayne House and Thomas Ice write, “Whatever dynamic God has given believers today does not mean that the Messianic kingdom is here. We see it as totally future.”
The dispensational view requires Christ’s physical presence on earth to rule over His Kingdom. Dispensationalists do not accept the Reformed notion that Christ’s Kingdom and Kingship are both spiritual. They often complain: “You cannot have the Kingdom present when the King is absent.” This argument has a persuasive impact upon first hearing. But its force is only felt by those who do not carefully think through the implications of the assertion. The beauty of this argument is truly only skin deep.
An immediate problem with this statement is that Satan has an evil kingdom present
Matt. 12:26-and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
John 12:31-Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out ,
John 14:30-I will no more speak much with you, for the prince of the world cometh: and he hath nothing in me ,
John 16:11-of judgment, because the prince of this world hath been judged
even though he is only spiritually present (Eph. 2:2; 2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 6:12). But a more serious problem is that Christ clearly taught that He established His Kingdom when He came to earth. Let us survey some of the evidence.
In Mark 1:15, early in His ministry, Christ says: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.” Notice that the prophetically decreed time had come; the Kingdom was declared near at hand — not 2000 (or more!) years away. A little later in His ministry, as He exercises power over Satan, the Lord notes: “If I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you” (Matt. 12:28). And we know that He did cast out devils by the Spirit of God, so then by logical deduction Christ Himself has declared that His Kingdom has come.
Christ even prophesied that its coming with great power would be witnessed by His hearers: “And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power” (Mark 9:1). There seems to be a distinction necessary here between the Kingdom’s “coming” (which in Luke 17:20–21 is both subtle and present) and the Kingdom’s coming “with power” (which in the destruction of the temple was dramatic and future, from Christ’s perspective).
There seems no way around the fact that some who literally stood in Jesus’ presence would live (“not taste of death”) until that time, although by that very expression it is implied that some would, in fact, taste death before that event. Consequently, Christ taught that the Kingdom’s coming “with power” would occur in that generation, even though it would be somewhat later than when Jesus spoke (and, hence, not the Transfiguration of only six days later).
In Colossians 1:13 Paul writes of our present salvation: “He hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.” John agrees in Revelation 1:6, 9: “And He hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father … I John, who also am your brother, and companion in the tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ.”
In fact, we are now ruling with Christ, for Paul says in Ephesians 2:6: He “hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” (cf. Rom. 6:5, 8:17; Col. 2:13, 3:1–3; Rev. 20:4).
Dispensationalism distorts Christ’s teaching about the coming of His Kingdom, which was the dramatic point of His entire ministry. In other words, a major reason for Christ’s first coming — to be gloriously enthroned as Messianic King (Isa. 9:6, 7; Luke 24:26; John 12:23, 17:5, 18:37; Acts 2:30–34; 1 Pet. 1:11) — is lost in this doctrine.
Christ’s Rule Is Political
Second, dispensationalism poses a carnal and political kingdom, rather than a spiritual and redemptive one. Dispensationalism has Christ on a physical throne in earthly Jerusalem administering the day-to-day political and bureaucratic affairs of the world. Citing House and Ice again, we learn: “Then God’s will in heaven will be brought to earth. But not until Christ rules physically from Jerusalem.”
But Christ and the New Testament writers clearly discount such when they teach that His Kingdom is a spiritual Kingdom rooted in the heart (although not denying its external impact). In Luke 17:20–21 Christ contradicted the Zionist tendencies of the Pharisees when He denied a future earthly, political kingdom introduced by catastrophic intervention: “When he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!, for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you”. Paul picks up on and promotes the spiritual nature of the Kingdom when he writes that “the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost” (Rom. 14:17).
When Christ stood before Pilate, He repeated the same truth. In John 18:36 we read: “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight.” His was not a political kingdom like that of Caesar’s, requiring an army. This probably explains why He asked Pilate where he got his information (John 18:33, 34). Had he heard it from the Jews, Pilate would have heard a misconception of the nature of the Kingdom (see John 6:15); had he heard Jesus say it, he should have known what Jesus intended.
Dispensationalism discounts the spiritual glory of Christ’s present rule by denying it. And this despite the Biblical record.
Christ’s Second Humiliation
Third, dispensationalism has Christ endure a second humiliation by leaving heaven (which is His throne) to return to rule on earth (which is His footstool) only to finally have His personal Kingdom rule rebelled against. One major aspect of His humiliation was His dwelling in the dust of the earth and suffering abuse during His ministry. House and Ice write that in the postmillennial view, “Messiah is in heaven and only present mystically in his kingdom. His absence from the earth during his kingdom reign robs Messiah of his moment of earthly glory and exaltation.”
But Scripture teaches of Christ’s return to heaven that it is not a place where He is robbed! We must understand the majestic glory that is His, which issues from His ascension into heaven. Did He not pray to the Father just before the cross: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17:5)? He was preparing to leave the earth to enter heaven. He considered that to be glorious, not a robbery of glory!
Ephesians 1:20–22 speaks of His glorious condition in heaven: “Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet and gave him to be the head over all things to the church.” The same concept is repeated in Philippians 2:9: “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.” 1 Peter 3:22 agrees: “Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
According to dispensationalism, this is a robbery of His glory!
What’s worse is that the “moment of glory” Christ has during His millennial rule ends up in chaos and rebellion! J. Dwight Pentecost states that toward the end of the millennial Kingdom Satan “goes forth to deceive the nations, in order to lead a final revolt against the theocracy of God.” Pentecost admits that “there is no understanding how a multitude, ‘the number of whom is as the sand of the sea’ … could revolt against the Lord Jesus Christ, when they have lived under His beneficence all their lives.”
As John F. Walvoord puts it: “Thus the last gigantic rebellion of man develops against God’s sovereign rule in which the wicked meet their Waterloo. As the battle is joined in Rev. 20:9, the great host led by Satan and coming from all directions compasses the camp of the saints. The word for ‘camp’ … seems to refer to the city of Jerusalem itself which is described as ‘the beloved city.’”
According to dispensationalism, Christ’s “moment of glory” ends in chaos and ultimate failure! Dispensationalism’s “moment of glory” for Jesus puts Him back in the dust of the earth so that He might personally, physically administer a kingdom that eventually revolts against Him and attacks Him and His capitol.
The Church in Prophecy
In dispensationalism the church is deemed a new and unprophesied aside to God's major plan for the Jews. John Walvoord writes of the church: "It becomes apparent that a new thing has been formed—the body of Christ. It did not exist before Pentecost, as there was no work of the baptism of the Spirit to form it. The concept of the body is foreign to the Old Testament and to Israel's promises. Something new had begun … There is good evidence that the age itself is a parenthesis in the divine program of God as it was revealed in the Old Testament … The present age [is] an unexpected and unpredicted parenthesis as far as Old Testament prophecy is concerned."
In this statement a leading dispensationalist clearly asserts that God had a special, Jewish program in operation in the Old Testament. It is obvious, also, that from the dispensational view the present church age of Jew and Gentile union in one body was unknown in the Old Testament and that the church age is but an interruption of that program.
Most evangelical scholars, however, see the New Testament phase of the church as continuous with and a culmination or fruition of God's history-long redemptive labor. Indeed, when we look into the New Testament, we discover references to the Old Testament prophets' knowledge of the "church age."
For instance, Ephesians 3:3, 5–6 reads: "By revelation he made known unto me the mystery … which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ."
In Romans 16:25–26 Paul speaks of "the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith."
In both of these passages Paul points out that the "mystery" of Gentile salvation was hidden only from the Gentiles (whom, in Ephesians 3, Paul calls "the sons of men"), not from the Old Testament prophets. After all, he defends his doctrine of the mystery from "the scriptures of the prophets." Paul teaches us that the "mystery" is now “made manifest" to "all nations"—not just to Israel.
In Luke 24:44–47 the Lord teaches that it is necessary for Him to die in order to fulfill Scripture in bringing salvation to the Gentiles: "All things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations."
The distinction between Jew and Gentile has forever been done away with. Paul points out this glorious truth in Ephesians 2:11–16:
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh … at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.
Thus, because of Christ's gracious redemptive work, "there is neither Jew nor Greek … for ye are all one in Christ" (Gal. 3:28) and "there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision" (Col. 3:11). Dispensationalists see this as but a temporary parenthesis in God's plan. Paul presents it quite differently.
The Gospel and the Jews
In dispensationalism the church's labor among the Jews must always be a relative failure. During the future Tribulation, however, the gospel will be suddenly and dramatically successful among the Jews—after all Christians and the Holy Spirit are removed from the world.
Dispensational scholar Charles Ryrie speaks of the removal of the Holy Spirit and the church from the earth prior to the Tribulation: "If the restrainer, the Holy Spirit, is to be removed before the tribulation … then the Church also must be taken out of the world." Pentecost mentions the conversion of "all Israel" during that Tribulation: "God uses many different means to bring 'all Israel' to salvation during the seventieth week."
Yet the Scriptures teach that one of the glorious advances of the New Testament era is the magnified presence of the Holy Spirit, who will bring great and powerful blessings attending to the gospel: "Thus it is written … that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem … But tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:46–47, 49).
In Acts 1:8 the Lord instructs his disciples: "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you." They were prepared for this in Acts 2:17, 21: "I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh … And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". In fact, the Great Commission teaches that until the end of the age Christ will be with us to see that we "make disciples of" and baptize "all the nations" (Matt. 28:19 NKJV). This surely does not exclude the Jews.
The Sacrificial System
According to dispensationalism, the Temple and sacrificial system will be re-instituted in the future millennial kingdom (though dispensationalists see this ministry as only memorial). Ryrie writes: "The temple is yet to be built and the sacrificial system reestablished during the millennium." This is based on dispensationalism's literalistic understanding of Ezekiel 40ff.
But the New Testament teaches the temple being built is spiritual. Thus, dispensationalism involves a serious retrogression in the flow of redemptive history and the outworking of salvation.
First Corinthians 3:16 reads: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?"
First Corinthians 6:19 asks: "Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost?"
Second Corinthians 6:16 concurs: "Ye are the temple of the living God."
Paul speaks of this age-long building of this temple in Ephesians 2:21–22: It "groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord" for we "are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." Each of us is a living stone, for 1 Peter 2:5 teaches: "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house."
Dispensational Zionism
The future dispensational kingdom involves a racial prejudice favoring the Jews above even saved Gentiles during the millennium. As such, it re-introduces the distinction between Jew and Gentile and replaces faith with race as a basis for divine favor. Consider the following citations from leading dispensationalists:
Ryrie: "Three groups of people will be related to the millennial government. Israel, regathered and turned to the Lord in salvation, will be exalted, blessed, and favored throughout the period."
Pentecost: "The Gentiles will be Israel's servants during that age … The Gentiles that are in the millennium will have experienced conversion prior to admission."
Walvoord speaks of " Israel's restoration and exaltation in the millennial kingdom."
Herman Hoyt (past president of Grace Theological Seminary) puts it quite starkly: "The redeemed living nation of Israel, regenerated and regathered to the land, will be head over all thenations of earth … So he exalts them above the Gentile nations … On the lowest level there are the saved, living, Gentile nations."
Popular prophecy writer Dave Hunt comments: "The Messiah ruling the world from the throne of David and with national Israel restored to its place of supremacy over the nations."
However, with the establishment of the New Testament phase of the church, the distinction between Jew and Gentile has been abolished. This was the whole point of Peter's vision of the sheet filled with unclean animals in Acts 10: what God has called clean, let no man call unclean. Thus, there is no separate Jewish program exalting them over saved Gentiles.
The church, which includes Jew and Gentile in one body, is the fruition and culmination of God's promises to the Jews. In evidence of this, we should note that Christians are called by distinctively Jewish names in the New Testament. "He is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Rom. 2:29). Christians are called "the circumcision" (Phil. 3:3), "the children" and "Abraham’s seed" (Gal. 3:7, 29), the " Jerusalem which is above" and the "children of the promise" (Gal. 4:26, 28). In fact, Christians compose "the Israel of God" for we are a "new creature" regarding which "circumcision availeth [nothing]" (Gal. 6:15, 16).
I'll get into Ephesians later.
Well SG...you went and did it...got me studying all the more, lol! It's gonna take a while for me to break assimilate and break down.
I do want to say however that I have not stated that I am a dispensationalist...right from the start there are some things about dispensationalism in your definition I disagree with, lol!
Thanks....i think....oi......
I do want to say however that I have not stated that I am a dispensationalist...right from the start there are some things about dispensationalism in your definition I disagree with, lol!
Thanks....i think....oi......
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