The Clone Wars - Tearing the Vaping Community Apart

[tj99959]

Don't forget the folks out there who just enjoy pushing up the drama level

And the op is an example of that.

Lets face it, every bottom button mod out there is a knock-off of the SD Screwdriver (2007)
To this day I have never heard Trog complain about the Caravela, Nemesis, Chi You, etc,etc. stealing his idea.

 

[Piccollob12]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Authentic makers have limited runs of their products. And once their limited amount of products hit B&M stores/online stores they sell out. So clones really aren't taking any business away from the authentic makers. If they were then they would not be selling out at the shops and at the online vendors. So whats the point of arguing about it? It's a moot point. Authentic pieces aren't made in the quantities the clones are and are not readily available for purchase. so people buy clones to be able to somewhat experience the real thing. Just my .02c.

 

[Skenzer]

"The clone wars are tearing the vaping community apart". So, the solution is to start another 'clone war' thread.
Ok...got it. SMH

You obviously didn't read my post

 

[Skenzer]

And the op is an example of that.

Lets face it, every bottom button mod out there is a knock-off of the SD Screwdriver (2007)
To this day I have never heard Trog complain about the Caravela, Nemesis, Chi You, etc,etc. stealing his idea.

You obviously didn't read my post either

 

[jdrewry]

You obviously didn't read my post

I've read your post; the only "Clone Wars" I've seen are on Netflix. I get no sense of a dark cloud hanging over the community. If there was, I'm sure we'd be tripping over the threads you say are there. I haven't seen one. That doesn't mean that they may not be out there, but I have not seen any of these threads in the 3+ years I've been on this site.

 

[Absintheur]

It's personal (and somewhat moral) choice pure and simple. I choose to only own authentic mods and toppers and support the designers of the devices I buy. I also like the fact I keep as much of my money as possible spent here in the US helping the economy a smidge. That is my choice. If others want to buy clones and send cash to China then go for it, that is your choice. There are arguments for both sides...decide for yourself.

 

[bluecat]

It's personal (and somewhat moral) choice pure and simple. I choose to only own authentic mods and toppers and support the designers of the devices I buy. I also like the fact I keep as much of my money as possible spent here in the US helping the economy a smidge. That is my choice. If others want to buy clones and send cash to China then go for it, that is your choice. There are arguments for both sides...decide for yourself.

US store buys China clone. Marks it up 40%. I walk into US store and buy clone.. Which country am I supporting?

You pay 300 for an Authentic from Shorty in Wisconsin for X mod. Shorty take that money and buys him a vacation rental in Milan Italy.. Which country are you supporting?

It is really a silly argument.

 

[HuskerCal]

This will all work itself out when the cloners become the creators. It has already begun. Clones won't exist in 5 years.

 

[TheOdessa]

Money does crazy things to people.

I watched a youtube video stating last year the ecig market brought in $1b in revenues? When you see a figure like that, clones and knock offs are bound to come in. I just don't see how it's legal.

Here's the way I see clones and knock offs. Clones allow me to afford something I normally cannot. If clones did not exist, I'd stay with my Protank 2 and rebuilding the coils til authentic pieces came down in price.

Thanks to EphRo, I can afford a Kayfun type tank without paying the price.

 

[Absintheur]

US store buys China clone. Marks it up 40%. I walk into US store and buy clone.. Which country am I supporting?

You pay 300 for an Authentic from Shorty in Wisconsin for X mod. Shorty take that money and buys him a vacation rental in Milan Italy.. Which country are you supporting?

It is really a silly argument.

Fasttech 100% to China
Local B&M China made clone 60-80% to China (anymore profit and they can't compete with Fasttech)

I somehow doubt a significant number of mod makers here in the US are buying/renting villas in Italy...

As I said it is a personal choice, if you feel good about your choice it's all good.

 

[Jman8]

I
If we keep fighting over metal tubes instead of fighting for our right to vape, all of this discussion and all others at the top of this forum will be moot. I urge all vapers to get involved in advocacy and fight back against the ANTZ lies and propaganda. Visit the News forum, comment on articles in the media, write to your congresscritters, state, and local officials, show up and testify at hearings for local ordinances. Don't let them take this life-saving alternative away from us!

It's possible to discuss both.

Clone debate is part of the larger debate. Would be like saying instead of arguing about whether vaping indoors is okay or not, let's only talk about FDA stuff.

 

[tj99959]

You obviously didn't read my post either

Believe it or not, I actually did. Not sure why, but I did.

You just haven't been around long enough to remember the Golden Greek wars.
Folks were getting banned left & right back then.
There was even an entire section on another forum devoted to those that got banned.

So let's face it, haters have been around far longer than clones, or even e-cigs for that matter.

 

[auxsend]

This is a great post. Because it literally makes no difference at a high level where you get your vaping equipment.
It got you off of tobacco, and that's kind of the point.

But then, it becomes a hobby, and every hobby community has the elitists that believe if you can't afford to spend the money, you aren't allowed in the hobby.
I wonder how many of those types used to be the ones who were gung-ho for "vape to quit smoking". Now they're all "You can't spend 10,000 dollars on a collection of metal tubes? be gone!"

So yeah, we should really be concerned with getting more people into vaping. And making sure the FDA doesn't rain on the parade.

 

[Zealous]

It's personal (and somewhat moral) choice pure and simple.

I don't know that it's all that pure & simple, but I will agree that it's definitely a personal choice. People have to figure out the world of vaping for themselves & imo opinion without clones it would be harder for that to happen for some. Now that's not to say that I'm a pro clone person or anti clone person. It just means that without clones some people would not be exploring the world of vaping past Egos/Twists and clearos. It's just too expensive.

I will use myself as an example. When I first wanted to start exploring other devices & toppers my first RDA was an authentic. And my first mod was an authentic. And my first RTA was authentic. I wanted good quality and I also wanted something specific that wasn't being cloned so I spent the money, yet wasn't "sure" whether these set ups were going to be something I would like. In the end, I did NOT like the mech I bought. It was a pita for a number of reasons. I used it for a while but eventually sold it because it was just too much a pita. Same with the RTA. I had WAAAAAAY too many problems making it work for me & it was too inconsistent so it was sold. The dripper, on the other hand, worked great so I still use it. I did not make my money back on those 2 pieces I sold. I lost money on them because they were not brand new. Fortunately I did make enough between the 2 of them to buy something I'd tested & knew I would like.

Fast forward to today. If/when I decide to explore a new product and it's in the $$$ I will absolutely try a clone, if it's available, before spending that kind of money on the authentic. I want to know I won't hate working with that product before spending a larger sum on the authentic version. And without clones there are many products I would never try.

so then, in my case, were it not for clone versions some authentic devices would not ever be an option for me since I consider the risk too high. In that regard it is a personal choice. But it's not the choice of whether or not I feel any sort of obligation to support authentic creators. it's more a choice of whether or not I feel any sort of obligation to make responsible choices with my money. sometimes buying the authentic IS the responsible choice. Other times it's not.

 

[bluecat]

Fasttech 100% to China
Local B&M China made clone 60-80% to China (anymore profit and they can't compete with Fasttech)

I somehow doubt a significant number of mod makers here in the US are buying/renting villas in Italy...

As I said it is a personal choice, if you feel good about your choice it's all good.

You speculate. I speculate. Which speculation is correct?

FT is not the only place selling clones. Many others do and they are in almost every shop in the US. I am guess the shops are buying from FT and then selling from their B&M or online store in the US as well. Others are just buying clones from Alibaba or something.

Shall I go with Canada or Mexico then? Actually the place is irrelevant especially since it outside the US.

 

[skoony]

i was not going to respond to this thread as i have posted my opinions in other related threads.
but as usual i came up with a new slant.
being that the market in general is still in its infancy when it comes to clones most of us would
not be able to tell one from the real thing. many cities do not have a vape shops. many states have
very few. a poster in this thread mentioned the golden greek wars. i had never heard of them so i
did a little googling. one blog i ran across mentioned a mod(sorry forgot the name) going for
$600 used. Wow. that along with what i have picked up after perusing this forum for a year or
so got me thinking.
.i have read here that the sale for used higher end mods isn't that much lower than new. that
struck me as odd. maybe the newness of the market accounts for it. then perhaps i thought
that the younger folks just have an inflated view of the relative worth of used items. especially
ones some one else has put their mouth on. who buys used body piercings?
i haven't privileges in the sales forum as i haven't had the need to use it but,i bet it would be interesting
for some one to track the ads that has some math skills and figure out what percentage of used
authentic mods are on sale as opposed to what might actually have been sold new in the market.
if one tracked higher end or popular mods with limited runs i am willing to bet the results would
show an inordinate amount of used gear compared to known quantity being sold.
i like 90% of vapers couldn't tell a mannhatan from a fuhattan.

regards
mike

 

[nyiddle]

"The vocal minority" is the case here.

Among other things, I haven't seen nearly as much drama as you imply has been happening.

 

[DC2]

Never mind.....

 

[DC2]

When this forum was all about how to help people quit smoking these discussions would have been stupid and irrelevant for the most part.
And that's exactly how I treat these discussions, because this is NOT what I think this forum should be about.

But you all can do whatever the hell you want.

 

[PapaSloth]

When this forum was all about how to help people quit smoking these discussions would have been stupid and irrelevant for the most part.
And that's exactly how I treat these discussions, because this is NOT what I think this forum should be about.

But you all can do whatever the hell you want.

This. I'm just here because it's keeping me from smoking. If some of you want to spend your time arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, then knock yourselves out as long as you're having fun and it keeps you from smoking as well. Beyond that, I can't see that the conversations are "tearing the community apart" in any meaningful way.

Now, cloud chasers vs. ex-smokers... That's a more significant one. Also, people who are in favor of regulating ejuice vs. people who are against... Very meaningful divisions that well intentioned people can disagree on.